I have two Cairns(mum 4, daughter 6 months) and I'm having real issues feeding them.I was feeding them together,mum would be reluctant to eat,letting daughter eat hers too,when all the food was gone the puppy would constantly chase mum round the house/garden,mouthing her until she regurgitated her food back up ,then they would eat it! i went to the vets and he gave me tablets to stop her being sick,which didn't work.So then i would feed them separately leaving an hour gap,keeping them apart which wasn't easy to do with the house set up! but still mum would regurgitate as soon as they were together,i presume pup can smell the food as she didn't see her eat!.Now i feed mum last thing at night,keeping them part until morning with success,but even if i give mum a chew stick or similar she stresses for a while before either eating it or pup snatching it off her.Also they're going into kennels in August and they'll be sharing a kennel together for 3 weeks, i really don't want them separated as kennelling is stressful enough.Any suggestions please as i run out of ideas!

Also they're going into kennels in August and they'll be sharing a kennel together for 3 weeks, i really don't want them separated as kennelling is stressful enough.Any suggestions please as i run out of ideas!

And yet separating them for three weeks is just what is needed for little-un to stop bullying her mum and for mum to stop seeing pup as her tiny baby   :-)

Look at it this way, for three weeks, your poor Cairn is going to have no respite from her daughter, and probably no food.  I doubt the staff at the kennel will have the time to deal with this, no matter what promises they make.

Why on earth have you allowed pup to chase mum all over house and garden???   Do you not have a collar and lead?

It also sounds as if you haven't done enough training with the pup.   A good  'LEAVE IT!'  would stop her chasing mum all round the house and give you more control over  the situation.

In addition, allowing pup to snatch treats away from mum is just allowing bad manners.   Your older bitch should  be able to trust you to deal with this situation, but from what you write, you are simply doing nothing :-(       At the very least you could use a crate to allow your older girl some peace to have a decent chew.

I agree,probably splitting them up over the kennelling period may do the trick>i will speak the the owner of the kennels about that.

Believe it or not i do have a collar,lead and a crate, in which (as i said) i kept them separate for a good hour,feeding mum away from pup.When i started to feed mum at night they were separate for 8 hours + and mum still regurgitated, that part has now stopped.I was hoping an 8 hr gap would get her out of the habit but when i fed them and kept them separate for the hour i was back to square one.I can't crate or keep pup un a lead all day.
I am giving a pup a stern "NO"if she snatches a treat,i take the treat off her and remove her from the situation.
Apart from this she has excellent manners,she's well socialised,sits,does not jump up etc
I am NOT doing nothing, i am trying my best,i came here for some advise, not to be accused of doing nothing.

The point of training  'LEAVE IT'  is to stop the snatching happening in the first place.    It would also help with pestering mum to make her sick  :-)

I answered the words you wrote in your post without making assumptions.

I cannot possibly know whether you have a crate unless you say, ditto, a lead and collar, ditto training.   

It's your choice whether you use the collar and lead or crate to prevent unwanted behaviour.   But you're the one asking for advice.

I can't help it if you don't like the advice I've given.    However it's free.   You could have paid for advice and disliked it just as much.

I always teach a "leave it" command totally separately from correcting my puppies if they steal or attempt to steal from my older dogs. It rarely happens as my older dogs will correct the puppies/younger dogs themselves before the youngsters have grasped my "leave it" command. Has your older bitch ever offered to correct her daughter ? I never stop my adults as they need to learn behaviour & body language from other dogs.

I've never bred a litter, but have a friend who has bred a few(& I do mean a few under 10 in many many years)& they only ever had one bitch that regurgitated for puppies, yet all their bitches were good mothers. The one that did regurgitate didn't do it for her own puppies, but did it at the vets when she was there for a post whelping accident treatment(her puppies were long weaned by then)& she regurgitated for several puppies (of different breeds !)that were in the waiting room !!

The puppies/youngsters that I have had have always started out by trying to get the adults to regurgitate food for them, not only does it not happen, but when they reach around 6 months they are actively discouraged by the adults, with Elvis Presley lip raises :-)

At no point did i say i didn't like your advise.You said from what you read i was doing nothing.A comment like that is going to put someone on the defensive,because i actually wrote quite a bit about what i WAS doing, whether you agreed with it or not! I tried to keep it brief and to the point without going on. To presume i don't have a collar or a lead is silly.You did say you were not making assumptions, from your replies you made plenty of assumptions about what i was not doing!
I think your posts are argumentative,but do have some valid points e.g. kennelling

Any people with experience with this situation? what did you do?

No my bitch has never tried to correct pup,i wish she would.I think one act of aggression from mum would go a long way.On one occasion though she regurgitated and growled at pup when she went near it,but that only happened once! Maybe the urge will pass and as other reply suggested separation in kennels may help.
Im beginning to think though separation is not actually meeting this problem head on.

even if i give mum a chew stick or similar she stresses for a while before either eating it or pup snatching it off her.

This is what you wrote and what I referred to.   There is  NO mention of what you did to stop this.

I am NOT doing nothing, i am trying my best, i came here for some advise, not to be accused of doing nothing

Is this not argumentative?  Have you not taken that out of context?

Basically you are annoyed that I'm not clairvoyant.   I make no apologies for that as no one can claim to know what hasn't been written.

Any people with experience with this situation? what did you do?

I have experience with this situation.   

So far you've advised me on "a good leave it"
I'm sure you do have experience in this. It would be really helpful if you could elaborate on your experience and what you learned from it. Please I want to put this problem right and not engage in a tit for tat.this is a genuine request for help.

There's an excellent demonstration of teaching a young dog to 'leave it' here.  

http://drsophiayin.com/videos/entry/leave-it_demo1

Notice that a Clicker  is being used to mark the behaviour wanted, prior to rewarding the dog.

i really don't want them separated as kennelling is stressful enough

I agree, can't think of anything lonelier or more scary to suddenly be in a kennel in a strange place with other dogs barking and howling not knowing what is going on.... especially if used to living together, if there is no family to care for the dogs I'd much prefer to use dog sitters, have you had a look into that either in your home or boarding in their home, there are many good companies who do this, sure others on the board can recommend some too, might not be too bad to separate them in different homes, if doing that instead? Personally would not wish to do it in kennels.

But, if they are to be kenneled let's get this sorted before August then, so that neither are stressed and can have each other for company. :-)

It's a strange one really, I've certainly known dams continue to offer the odd suckle to their pup via teat well up to a year, but never witnessed regurgitation at this age, she sounds like a really good mother, does that have to be a bad thing? Only my mothers alpha ever did this and also not to her own pups but for my girls, when she came to visit.

There is nothing wrong with the dam giving puppy license either, always happens and there are plenty of dams and other household dogs who will continually allow pups to do as they please until they reach maturity, not all dogs and bitches will tell a youngster off and most will let them get away with murder so not so strange that the pup takes things and is not chastised by the dam.

As already said though, in this case when the dam doesn't do it, learning to share and leave if the mother is losing out is your job, but the mother is not going to starve here, the maternal instinct may still be strong, but as she is now 6 months and food is plentiful, her own survival will be stronger. ;-) For me I would have thought that the dam seeing her pup eat would also help to stop the regurgitating, stopping them feeding together may still send her signals for the need to feed when she is mouthed, for some reason she is not cutting off.

I guess to her it may well not be a problem? mouthing her until she regurgitated her food back up ,then they would eat it! the key word here is they would eat it......how is she health wise, does she need to put on weight or is she still healthy and of good body? If she is looking good with a good coat, then perhaps the regurgitation is doing her no harm, seems like she also eats it, maybe she is not losing as much food as you think, if she is thin, I'd certainly re-feed her to make sure she is getting enough herself until this stops..... I sure wouldn't be waiting to feed her last thing at night, I'd just replenish if she were not getting enough and distract the pup to be with me where she belongs,

Which is the key here, make sure that the 6 month old spends a lot of time with you, bonding and training, play fighting and chasing her mum should be minimized you need to be her main source of entertainment, I know that can be tiring but it is what is needed, you need to replace her mum big time, are you giving treats with training? This will also detract her from just asking from her mother, and also see you as a source of good things when she does as you ask.

Are you giving the pup separate walks, just with you, and separate training away from her mother just with you? Also you need to focus the 4 year old on you too, with the separate walks too and separate time together, snap her out of mother mode and back to being your dog too, both bitches basically need you to focus on, wean them from this close bond and the regurgitating will stop.

If you are already doing all of these things and still the mother continues to regurgitate then you may just have to wait, it will dissipate when ready.......as long as the 4 year old is in good health, if she is suffering then maybe as already said, it would be a good idea for them to be separated whilst you are away in August.

Hope things sort out before then, remember they both need to fixate on you. :-)

Wow, you've defiantly picked up on a few things which may be causing the problem. The first is I do walk them together so I will start to  do walking separately, also when I do train pup mum is about, she doesn't show any interest but I will remove her from the room/garden. I agree  I may need to make more one on one time. What you say makes sense.
Mum is in good condition, I'm not worried about her weight.
The lady at the kennels has told me they can be kennelled together or separately so I can make a decision on that nearer the time.thank you very much x