Hi

I have recently acquired a wire hair fox terrier puppy who at four months is already looking rather hairy.  I need to get a new grooming table with an arm and noose so I can gradually get her used to being groomed.  What size should I buy - and are arms and nooses standard sized?  On ebay there is a small table 30 ins long - would that be big enough do you think?  I might show her so at 6 months will take her to my regular groomer (when hopefully she might be a little more sensible ....).

Thanks for reading this and any advice appreciated.

That size would probably be okay, but I'd go for the more standard 36" table.   I bought mine from Ebay when I decided to treat myself to an upgrade on my original home-made table.   Sadly it was very heavy (or as I'm getting older, perhaps I'm not as strong was I was!! - and it does need to be sturdy) so I advertised it on my vet's notice board and it was quickly snapped up.  

30" should be fine, the less room on the table, the less she has to fidget around lol! :-)  But seriously I have 48" but I am dealing with all sizes and breeds and therefore I need the extra room. 

Height  is probably more important - check to see if you'll be comfortable and whether its adjustable or not.

Arms are pretty standard.  Nooses too.  I'd go for adjustable nylon noose though because at least you can cut through it fast in the unlikely and unfortunate event of the dog becoming tangled or whatever.  Whereas chain nooses are obviously not so easy to cut.

No disrepect to you, but I would take her to your regular groomer now.  Groomers are {or should be!} used to puppies and in fact I prefer to meet the puppies as soon as they have their vaccinations so that they can familiarise themselves with the grooming room and me and the tools etc.  And again, no disrespect but sometimes bad habits are picked up early from the owners and then more difficult to undo come the time they reach the grooming parlour.

However, if you have plenty grooming experience then perhaps thats different :-)

Do you want a table to take to shows or to just use at home? 
If it's just for at home, then the top of a freezer, work bench in a shed, or even an odd piece of kitchen worktop put up in the garage with a piece of rubber backed carpet on top and 2 large hooks in the wall to secure will suffice.  :)

I was going to make the same comment about height. I killed my back a couple of years ago trying to groom small terriers on a table that was the wrong height. Too high that I couldn't sit down to groom the dogs, but low enough that I had to bend over awkwardly when standing up. The height of the arm is something to consider too, as lately I've seen some tables that come with really short grooming arms where the dog's head is almost touching the arm when they're on the table.

If you're taking her to a groomer, make sure they know she is a show prospect, most groomers will happily do a pet clip on your girl and ruin her coat not realising what they are doing, given half a chance. Better to learn to do her yourself. :-)

Lucy,  at the moment she is a complete scatterbrain, a real wriggly worm.  Tonight we are starting puppy classes so perhaps she will calm down a bit.  I don't think it would be fair to inflict her on a groomer yet.  I thought if I can get her more used to a bit of grooming at home she would react better at the groomer's.  I do realise that if we are to show her she will have to be hand stripped which will probably be quite daunting to Sophie (the pup) and for the groomer, poor soul!  Of course I don't know whether she is show quality although she is well bred - but we can have a bit of fun finding out!

I do have a grooming table that I use for my (sensible) sheltie, got it on ebay years ago and it is good quality but heavy. So I have decided for now just to order an arm and noose for that and see how we get on.

If you bought her as a show prospect from a good breeder, or even if you bought her as a pet from a good breeder, I would expect that they would be delighted to help you learn to groom and handstrip you pup so that you can present her well at the shows  :-)

One thing is for sure, unless you strip your dog yourself, you're unlikely to get a proper handstrip at the local groomers, unless they show terriers themselves ;-)

I can handstrip a terrier..... ;-) I would never dare attempt a full show trim however! I'm looking forward to meeting her if she's going to join the Great Barton classes at some point!

She will be joining the puppy class at GB in August but has already started one at Stonham Aspel!  Think asking the breeder is a good idea.

Lucy, it's easy enough when you learn with your own dog :-)    Getting instruction from first the breeder, then other show breeders is the best way to learn, and practising on your own pup is the easiest way too.    I found other exhibitors really helpful, when I was starting out :-)

The important thing to remember is,  IT WILL ALWAYS GROW BACK !   :- D

Snowflake,
If you're starting your pup in open shows as practise for Ch Shows,  then the judge will accept that you're learning together (it will be fairly obvious to an experienced judge ;-)  )

I found judges also would give tips on any presentation that could be improved, after the judging :-)

I have to say, I doubt I'd trust many people to groom my dog for showing - certainly not a salon groomer unless they also successfully show the same breed at Championship level ;-)

The only dogs apart from my own I have groomed for show are other Cavaliers, and a Briard once - nice easy wash & go dogs! :-D I understand enough not to clip a dog if the owner says they might be showing, but would never dare attempt an actual show trim, I know my limits!

Ahh so you're speaking as a groomer rather than an exhibitor ;)

Sorry, I misunderstood :-)

I quite agree, there are groomers out there who would quite happily clip or even give a sort of 'strip' but it would take at least a year for the coat to recover :(

I know of one groomer - City and Guilds no less! (her boast)  who arrogantly declared she knew exactly how to groom a Bedlington Terrier and didn't need to look at any book or be told.  She did not :(   and on top of leaving the dog looking like it had been attacked by rats, she managed to burn his rear end with the clippers as well - poor mite had big blisters from it 

Most sheep shearers just do a really bad job on the coat and don't actually hurt the dog.

Going back to the original post, 

For my own dogs, I still use a folding card table that I was given when starting out with Bedlingtons :-D  Just the right height for me :-D
I covered it with the rubber matting used on grooming tables eventually, but for a year or two, I used a suitably sized rubber car mat :-)
I don't use a grooming arm with it though. With pups, I just do 5 mins at a time, with the older dogs they just stand on it quite happily.  

My other grooming table is much bigger and has an 'H' frame for grooming other people's dogs.

To me size is not the only thing to consider how stable is the table there are some very shakey ones out there and you do not want a puppy scared as they do not fully come back totally, my girl had a table in the ring collapse under her as a eight month puppy and to this day hates and does not relax on a shaky table and she is seven this year the first time back on the table was awful and it took months to get her to relax and not stand on her nails so tense and stiff

This is why I always test the table with my hand before actually putting the dog on it. If it's unstable to the point of being unsafe, I will say something to the steward. If they don't do anything about it, I'd rather excuse myself from a class than risk a bad experience for a dog.

No that's ok, I happen to know Snowflake in the real world, so was semi-offering if her own groomer didn't know, as at least I would know to strip rather than clip for a show terrier. I am the rare occurrence of a groomer that also shows dogs and at least understand the basics of grooming for show lol. But if the breeder is near enough to show her how to prepare the dog properly herself, that would be the best way I agree :-)

The table was stable it was tipped by a Rottweiler and a Doberman one leaving and one entering the ring deciding to have a spat after eyeing each other up and ending up hitting the table in the process

Hi All

Well, l I am going over to see the breeder next week to have a "seminar" on the art of grooming the wft.  She has said to me that although she does show her dogs she doesn't feel that she is the best (groomer)!  But any hands on experience will be helpful.  My old grooming table is sturdy but heavy but will do for now and I have bought a grooming arm and a noose (awful word!!)  So far we have just brushed and combed the pup on it (Sophie) who is extremely wriggly at the mo (4 months).  They are a pretty feisty breed LOL.

Having investigated further and having joined the WFT Association I see they do run a seminar once a year and one canalso  purchase a couple of DVDs to show how to do the show clip.  Lucy I may well ask you to help me as I don't know yet how to handstrip although I have bought a couple of stripping knives but as yet Sophie is too lively to do much much.

Oh dear,  I have bought a rather difficult breed I fear.  Still it will be a challenge and she is  VERY cute.  Things can only get better ....

Snowflake

No problem, if your breeder can help you with when and how much to strip I'll be happy to help with the technique. I know show terriers are 'rolled' ie just a bit of the coat removed regularly, whereas I usually get a dog in with a completely blown coat to competely strip off, but it's the same technique. :-) She won't need stripping as such yet as she's still very young, but just getting her used to being on a table and having her head etc held and legs manipulated will help a lot.

Oh dear,  I have bought a rather difficult breed I fear.  Still it will be a challenge and she is  VERY cute.  Things can only get better ....

I thought this! I have just started showing a welsh terrier, and have learned to hand strip myself! Definitely take the advice of the people in your breed association - mine have helped me with everything! Theres little - if any - decent information on stripping for my breed so every strip is a learning curve! Haha. I stick pictures of the "end product" on my table so I can remember what Im aiming for - and have learnt that even if you make a mistake or a bald patch (Im good at those!) it will grow back!

In terms of the grooming table - I made the error of buying a MASSIVE one. Which was impossible to move and came apart into a few to many bits. For my birthday I brought one from eBay, new - and its the perfect size. I use it at home all the time and it fold nicely for me to take to shows. Its 30" with a noose and was a snip at £45!

Hi Squoofle

I love Welsh Terriers - are they a bit smaller than the WFT?

My table was purchased six years ago when I got my sheltie pup.  It is large and heavy and as you say would be useless to try to lug it into a show LOL.  I think I am going from the sublime to the ridiculous as my sheltie apart from brushing and bathing is left "au naturel" LOL.  Still it will be a challenge!

Yeah, the WT is about 2 or 3 inches smaller. Alot of the people in my breed started with WFT, and still have them so use the same equipment for all their dogs - I would have thought a 30" table would be fine. When I prep for a show I often think "why didn't I just get something that need rubbing down with a cloth?" Haha! My parents have standard poodles - but the grooming was a handful so we stuck to agility :P When I started stripping I was doing about 20/30 mins a day, but now Im on top of it I can do 20 mins twice a week and its keeps it all together.