Can anyone give any advice on how to get pup to stop choking himself . He is nearly 16 weeks old now and is really pulling when out walking . We trying the stop and go method (ie when he starts to pull we will stop until he realises ) but he sounds terrible like we are choking the life out of him . He is a Staffy and I know they have a tendancy to pull but I want him to walk nicely and I am also worried that I will hurt his throat .
The trainer at his puppy classes gave us a Lupi Harness to try but we were advised at handling class not to use this as it could pull his shoulders out so after this contradictory advice I am at a loss .
I dont want to hurt his throat - he is currently wearing a thin leather collar - do you think wearing the "fabric" style collars would make a diffence until he finally learns to heel .
Has anyone else dealt with this or offer any other advice ??
We are walking him in the house too to try and address this and he is much better inside , I think all the distractions outside also seem to make him pull more .
Lel

Hi Lel,

Get a thicker collar (either leather or material) and put it high up on his neck, just behind his ears.. This is supposed to stop choking, and be the safest place...

With solo i tried the stop and go method, but phsically checked him everytime he pulled more than i was willing, dragging him back a few paces. Also, walk fairly quickly, with a loose lead, and check if he goes in front of you - do not have constant pressure on the lead as he is then constantly pulling at it, even if he is not actually pulling, if you catch my meaning. Another method is to actually turn around and go opposite way when pup pulls, or stop and retreat a few paces - so that pup learns that if he pulls it actually takes him longer to get where he wants to go!

HTH,

Alex

Never ever allow a collar to get high around the ears! The small bones which allow a dog (or human) to hear are situated there. Aim to keep the collar around half way up the neck. A wider collar will spread the load and help from the choking point of view but in effect all that will achieve in effect will be to allow hip to pull all the harder!!

The answer is to train to walk to heel. Never allow him to get in front at all, ever. If he starts to get in front do something. Stop, Turn at right angles across in front of him, do an about turn, really it does not matter what you do as long as you do something and keep him guessing! never allow him to feel he is deciding where you go or how fast you go. One of the things we do is, as the dog starts to pull we speed up in order to reduce the pull on the lead. It's a subconcous thing which we don't even really notice we are doing. Really slowing down is better than speeding up but idealy a change of pace from time to time whilst walking is to the good in helping to stop the dog getting set into a patten. Once a puppy has started to pull it is something you really have to work on to correct but correct it you can if you keep working on it.

Regards, John

Slap on the wrist to all the qualified trainers that i have ever been to then - would have thought they'd have been taught the right way... never mind hey!

It's not a qualification that makes a good trainer :)

Who tests the testers?

John

Hi! I have a 14 week old bedlington whippet who is pulling on the lead until he chokes. I have never had a dog before and don't know what to do. I'm really scared he'll injure his throat. He has a soft collar and a normal (short) puppy lead. I want to train him to walk to heel and never allow him to get in front at all but don't know how.  Some people say not to restain him to heel but he will not come to heel voluntarily because he is so very excitable, so i can't reward him for doing so! He's learnt to sit, lie, fetch already, so it's not that he's undisciplined or stupid!
I've tried stopping when he pulls but he just strains until he chokes, and that's at the lead's full length, let alone in front of my heel! It's quite exasperating and I'm scared if i don't do the right thing now, he will grow up with these bad habits. Does anyone out there with more experience than me (i.e. anyone!) have some advice for me.

Hi Keri-Lee.
The above post of mine was written nearly two years ago but is just as valid today as it was then. Often young puppies during their first two or three weeks of walking outside the gate are a little apprehensive so tend not to get in front anyway. The fact that yours does points to a bold confident puppy, not exactly a bad fault!! On the other hand it does make training rather more important!

Adding to the tips I gave above here is a few more ideas.

When you go out think about how much attention you can devote to your puppy. Often walking the puppy is combined with the school run. On the way to school to collect a child you are working to a deadline. On the way back home possibly the greater part of a person's attention on shepherding the children and only a lesser part on the puppy. Not ideal training situation! A better idea is to leave the puppy at home on outings such as this and to take him out at times when you can give him your undivided attention.

At this age, long distance walks are not needed so get the best out of the training you are doing. Every single time he gets in front do an about turn and go back the other way! You are not going to go far for a little while but by doing an about turn you are putting your dog back behind you and at the same time making the point to him that there is no point in getting in front because he does not know where you are going!

You say he is ". . . . So very excitable" With an excitable dog you must at all times be calm! Quiet commands, quiet praise and quiet calm insistence that ALL commands, without fail, are complied with. If commands are obeyed 50% of the time then that means that the dog is out of control 50% of the time. Put that way it does not sound so good!

When the heelwork starts to work try doing a little off lead in the park. It helps to enforce the idea in a puppy's brain that he obeys everywhere and not just when he has no choice. In fact, people often find that heel free is easier that heel on lead because the puppy then HAS to concentrate!

Regards, John

Thanks for the advice. It is really appreciated. Whenever I walk the puppy, it is just me and him, so he always has my undivided attention. We have been letting our puppy off the lead in a fenced field near our house and he is very good. He never strays and stays close by. I think that he just doesn't want to be restrained when he's on the lead, rather than he wants to get away. We will try the turning around thing as you suggest. You say that 50% obedience is bad, on which agree. However what can you do? If i call him in from the garden, for example, and he comes on the 5th call, all I can do is reward him when he comes. Is that right? I just have to hope he will learn then?

Also, a digression: do you have any advice on how to calm a puppy when visitors come round? Our puppy is very good in the home but when new people come to visit he goes crazy, clambering all over them and licking (sometimes a nip or two). We obviously discourage this behavior but it is unnerving and distracting when people visit. We have been advised to "hold him in a towel" into enforced calm. Would this be something you would advocate?

Never call a dog if you're not 99% certain it's going to obey. So at this stage only call your pup when he's coming anyway. Anything else is teaching him that it's okay to ignore you.

Would you expect a toddler to behave like an adult? No? Then don't expect a puppy to behave like a mature dog.
:)

Dogs/puppies pull on the lead for a number of reasons. Just watch your puppy in the garden. They rarely walk! Same thing on the wildlife programs on TV. The standard pace is a loping trot. The pace we walk at is considerably slower then their natural pace. Add to this the natural excitement, things to sniff, places to go! Then comes familiarity, "At the entrance to the park just in front I get to have a lovely run, HURRY UP MUM!" Any or all of these can apply at any moment of a walk. Dominance, often quoted when a dog pulls is very rarely the case. The dog is just in a hurry to get to the next lovely smell!
Keep varying the pace and direction to keep the interest It is mentally hard work because you are attempting to stay one step in front of your dog in anticipating its actions. If you can keep his interest by making it fun YOU WILL WIN. No maybe about it.

As to the 50% obedience, Think of it this way. If you give a command and your dog does not obey it then it is no longer a command, it is just a sound you are making which has no meaning. It is only by giving a command and following it with an action which leaves no doubt in the dogs mind what you want which will finally dawn on your dog what that sound means. Puppies very obviously do not understand English and it is repeated use of commands, always with the same actions, (consistency) by which the puppy eventually learns.
Think about this for a moment. If you are not in a position to enforce a command it may be best to not give the command in the first place! Obviously if the pup is heading towards the road and a No9 bus is coming you have to try something but if your dog is digging a hole at the top of the garden then it may be a better idea to get yourself into the right position BEFORE giving any command. If it is never able to disobey a command it will never dawn on him that he is able to disobey the command!

Your last question, on meeting guests, Where possible try to get all people to ignore him when coming into the house. Later, when the initial excitement is over then a quiet, calm, stroke will be the reward. I know it is not easy to always follow these instructions but at 14 weeks old he is still very much a baby. If you work at the training, even if it takes a year, you will then have up to 15 very happy years with a well trained dog! Now that's a thought to encourage you!

Regards, John

If you turn round and go the opposite way, he has to follow you. As he does this the lead will go loose again. While this is the case keep walking briskly in a straight line. He will no doubt try to get ahead of you again. As soon as he tries to do this, change direction again, before he gets to the end of the lead. Then walk in a straight line again.

Keep doing this sequence. Don't attempt to go anywhere as such (ie a walk) because you won't get very far. Keep changing direction to keep the puppy on his toes. It will make him wonder what you are going to do next and then keep an eye on you, eventually. The only problem with this method is that you should try not to fall over as you get dizzier and dizzier with all the changes of direction! :D

I hope that helps a bit.

Walking on a loose lead takes a lot of work and training, and it is honestly very difficult to do when you are taking the dog to the park or anywhere he considers interesting!

I haven't heard of any anti pull harness pulling shoulders out, but perhaps your trainer has had some experience of this happening. I used the Kumfi Stop Pull harness - excellent for getting from A to B when there is no time to train.

It sounds a drag, but it is crucial to never let the pup pull you even one step hence I recommend use of a harness when needing to get to somehwere, but spend lots of training times every week concentrating on loose lead walking.....you can try it between lamposts, it really helps to get past the first post, then the second, and eventually the whole street (and then you can hang out the bunting :p !!!)

lindsay

Thanks everyone- he didnt pull on the harness and walked quite well but as i said people at handling class warned never to use a harness on a young pup .The one we used (lupi) said recommended by Dr Roger Mugford on the box and thats we are a bit confused .
Pup is getting quite strong now and as i previously mentioned i am worried about harming his throat plus people passing by must think i'm being really cruel to my dog as he sounds terrible . I will definately try some of the advice recommended
Thanks fortaking the time to reply
:)
Lel

Re the anti-pull harnesses....I've only seen one used at "close quarters" (ie a neighbour's dog) once. Judging from that alone, I wouldn't recommend one. The collie went from pulling on her collar, to pulling on her harness, but with her elbows stuck out from her sides, and her front feet pigeon-toed. It took several months after they stopped using that (they just let her off the lead ) for her front legs to get back to their "normal" position.

just to say we havent used the harness since we were advised - and he was terrible on his collar today :(
Lel

Hi Lel
We tried the Lupi on our small dog with no success whatsoever ! The fact that it tightened up when he pulled made no difference to him at all. I was also concerned about it rubbing under his front legs as there's no padding to it.
I gave it up as a bad job in the end but have had some success with the Halti - it's not completely stopped the pulling but I seem to have more control.

I hope you find something that works for you - I know how frustrating this problem is :D

HI Jeangenie

Was the dog's problem a physical one, ie the harness had damaged her elbows/legs, or was it something she started to do as a habit, or to make herself more comfy, do you know?

Some of the harnesses seem very thin and i can imagine would be quite umcomfortable if the dog really pulled.

The one i used had furry pads under the elbows, and I didnt let Banya pull much on it at all. It was a combination of the harness doing some of the work, and me just stopping if she attempted to really pull. So we never got to the really hard pulling/towing stage with our harness.

Do you know which one your neighbours used at all?

Lindsay

I don't know the make of harness they used, but the cords under the arms seemed really thin - I imagine she threw her elbows out to make it less uncomfortable. I think that after a few months of this her odd posture had become a habit which took some time for her to recover from. Nice dog - but I never see her on the lead at all - she's always loose, and generally way ahead of her owners :(. So far she's stayed on the pavement.....

My frined who is disabled started using an antipull harness on her bitch, and it did put her out at elbow, as it tightens up there. When she stopped using it, and had her son put some road work in the elbows tightened up again.

Sadly now as a mature adult that leads a relatively sedentary lifestyle, and is walked at a very slow speed, the front assembly is again looser than ideal for movement in the showring, but can't be helped.

I had great success with the Gentle Leaders. I've now recently bought the dogmatics (but I wouldn't invest in them till he's full grown if you still need them then). But keep in mind that dogs have been known to slip the nose loop off and get out of the Gentle Leaders so keep an eye.

It only took a couple of times of walking with them for them to get the idea and I have nice calm dogs walking with me. After a few weeks you can try going back to the collar and they should transfer the lesson and walk nicely. They may need a refresher every so often (which is why I've bought the dogmatics - *I* had let them get out of control again).

Wendy

When using a head collar it is important to read the fitting instructions very carefully to avoid mistakes. Wendy, this is not aimed at you, but is a general note to anyone who wants to try a head collar without worrying about their dog escaping from it. :)

If the Gentle Leader is fitted correctly it should not be possible for the dog to slip the nose loop off without a lot of struggling. It certainly shouldn't be possible while the dog is walking on the lead because he'd have to pull at it hard with his paws or rub his face on the ground ferociously to get it off.

Even if he did manage to get the nose loop off, then if fitted correctly, the collar part of it should be close-fitting enough that it would just act as a normal collar. It should not be possible for the dog to slip the collar part over his head and make a full escape. Having said that I have seen a lot of dogs wearing ill-fitting head collars. They are usually too loose, and I would guess that they don't work very well if fitted incorrectly, never mind the possibility for escape. I would warn that head collars should be checked for fit periodically though, just as you would check a normal collar, because the straps/catches can loosen with time and use.

I personally think that head collars are very useful for having a "relaxed" dog in tow when necessary, but they do not teach your dog to walk to heel. As soon as you go back to using a normal collar, a strong-willed dog will certainly revert to pulling on the lead. The dog still needs to be trained properly. I am not slagging off the use of head collars at all, but warning that they are not the "be-all and end-all" and should be used with care in order to be effective.

I use a Gentle Leader myself at times, as it makes my life a whole lot easier, especially when in a hurry or a busy place. But I also remind my strong-willed dog exactly what I mean by "heel" with daily training. For example, he doesn't make it through the park gates until he walks nicely to heel on the way there, on a normal collar. If he wants to pull me to the park, we turn round and head for home, until he gets the message. He is not a puppy, by the way, so should know better, just gets too over-excited and acts like one!

Sorry this is long, but I worry when people expect to find a quick fix from gadgets, rather than persevering with training, especially with young puppies. The gadgets are useful and have their place if used correctly, but so does training, with the added advantage that it can also be fun and very rewarding when things go well.

Just my opinion! :)

You're right - if correctly fitted it shouldn't be easy - but I do know people who have little houdini dogs (perhaps its the shape of the head) who have had them get out of them. Mine haven't, but have come very close. I figure it's better for someone to be aware that it's possible than to have them feel secure and caught off guard.

We use 1/2 check collars on our dogs for regular walking (when we're not using the head harnesses) because with the shape of their necks they can easily slip out of a regular collar. I've seen so many dogs slip regular collars that I'm not sure I would walk ANY breed without the 1/2 check. Again - I feel it's better to be prepared than to have my dog hit by a car. Just my opinion.

I like the way the Dogmatic is designed. There is no riding up in to the eye, and definitely no chance of escape, it works well for my one girl, and hopefully will do so for my other (but I'm having to get it custom made as her head is so small, so in the meantime she is on the gentle leader).

I don't mean for people to worry - just to be aware. Sorry if it sounded like a scare tactic. I think they're great as tools - just as you say. It is very difficult for me to do the stop and turns or bend/reward to train my dogs as I have very bad back problems. So this is the way we've trained them - and it does transfer to a regular collar. Chelsea does a brilliant heel most of the time with a regular collar, but some days....... So it's good to have them for a refresher.

Wendy

Hi Wendy,

I didn't mean to come across as disagreeing with your advice, I was intending to back up your concern about dogs escaping their head collars, with how to minimize the chance of it happening. You're right, people should be aware that it can happen, but also why, so they can prevent it. What you said didn't sound like a scare tactic at all. :)

My intentions were sparked off by some negative posts in the past that have condemned their use because a dog can get them off. But as you say, a dog can get any collar off if it tries hard enough.

Perhaps the shape of the head is an issue for some breeds, but in most cases I believe it is more than likely just too loose. I should think you haven't had a problem with your dog because you have it fitted correctly. ;)

The only thing I disagree with you on, which is indicative of our different personal experiences, is that it teaches the dog to walk to heel. Perhaps it does have that effect with a sensitive soul or a dog that learns through repetition and habit. But I have found that a strong-willed dog that likes to think for himself says "yippee - freedom!" as soon as you take the thing off. When he is wearing it he doesn't have much choice but to do as you say. Once off, it is a different matter and he can resort to type! :D

Best wishes, Monty's Mum

:-D I didn't take it as you disagreeing - just another side of the same thing which is good - the more information people have the better they can make a decision of what is right for them.

And yes, in my case the dogs have taken the lesson and transferred it (maybe because of their breed, maybe how I use it and reinforce - not sure why), but other headstrong dogs might not. Same as with our citronella collar. Totally worked for Chelsea who realised if she didn't want to wear it then she should't bark while not wearing it, but other dogs manage to work out how to get round it. All depends on breed temperament etc.

Back to the original poster - if possible I would perservere with the stop and turn method. Another to try is to click and treat when the dog is in the correct position (this method works well, but killed my back LOL). But if you are actually needing to get somewhere, the head halters are a good alternative for the in-between times:)

Wendy

PS. Just been to your website Wendy, and I love your dogs! :)

Thanks!!
I really need desperately to update it though.

Wendy

The slipping out of them is the reason I always advise the use of a Half check collar in conjunction with the Gentle Leader (which we prefer at our training club) and the Halti. Attach the lead to the loop, and then to the ring on the chain of the half check collar. This then doesn't interfere with the working of the head collar.

Some people attach the lead to the dogs normal collar, but it would need to be rather loose to allow the head collar to work properly, and then ther is the risk of that getting purlled off too.

I agree, this is really good advice. :)

Hi Lel

I have two ISBTs. I walk both of them together either on the same lead or of lead. the youngest is a 6 month old bitch and the male is 1 year now.
I dont know a lot about the so called "correct way" of training dogs. What I have done with both of these dogs and a friends undisciplined 3 year old staff to stop the pulling and be able to have a gentle walk and keep your arms the same length was to use a stout walking stick. Every time the lead goes tight I use the stick to either interfere with the dogs stride or to stop the dog by putting the stick against a wall in front of its chest. I also use a lead that is short enough to keep my dogs by my side and not out in front of me. Some people on this board have tried this method and it didnt work very well for them. It has for me. Its worth a try. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Whatever you do John is right in saying you have to do something, and dont let the dog lead you.

Regards Mick

On friday my vet recommended a lupi harness for kylie, it has been working fine now i've read this should i be using the lupi or not? Must admit when I saw the lupi out of it's box (there so flimsy ) I said how is that supposed to hold her back?

Alison

Hi lel

If you are concerned about not wanting to hurt your dogs throat then don't put his collar anywhere near under his ears! This can be very damaging as John has advised :(
Dragging on the lead is such a common problem and there are so many potential solutions each having it's own pros and cons. Some people will swear by one method and others have had great success with something else. Just because one dog has had a problem (even major) with one method that doesn't necessarily mean that the same would be typical of your own dog. It may be just what he needs!
Lara x

Thanks again everyone , there are plenty of ideas there to try .
As i mentioned its not just the pulling but the "choking" noises he makes too . At one of his training classes all you could hear was Gus making these noises and thats why the trainer first offered the Lupi .As i said I wont be using it again . I did question at the time whether it would rub under his front legs because it is fairly thin sort of cord .
At handling class no body seemed too concerned because quote " they all do it " but i am concerned .
I think we will have to practice in the garden more so nobody thinks i am being cruel to my dog and to avoid distractions .
Lel

Had the same 'choking' noise with our pup - we changed to a thicker 1/2 choke collar and the choking stopped - doesn't stop the pulling tho' :)

Daisy

what breed do you have daisy ? Pup is quite strong for his size already .
If mr Murphy is on here - can you tell me if you would recommend a half choke collar ??
Lel

My pup is an Aussie - she is 9 months old. We started with a thinner 1/2 choke, but the one that we are using now is 1" (3 cm) webbing type. 1/2 choke's are very good, but they need to be combined with other method's to stop the pulling :)

Daisy

Hi Lel

I personally dont use chokers. However a friend of mine uses a halti with a choker at the same time and swears by it.
another friend uses a choker on his staffie but it didnt stop the pulling. That was the 3 year old I trained with a stick.

Regards mick

Thanks Mick :)
I have never used a half choke chain and do not know anyone who has tried one - although I have seen one used on a Staffy at a show
Obviously I want to nip this in the bud as early as possible as when he is older he will be a helluva lot stronger
Lel

Hi everyone
I have decided to try one thing at a time and I am currently trying out Johns method first which is to turn at right angles and to keep him guessing .
He was ok tonight - still pulling but not choking himself . I will try this for a few days and obviously work through the advice given . I cant try everyhting at once but i was so glad so many people offered advice
As I said I have not used the harness since and last night at training class ( where he gets ever so excited and nearly chokes himself) he was ever so good . :D
Thanks again
Lel

I give up with my dog.....I am going to use the harness again :D

Have you tried using a soft Halti which fits over the muzzle? It is designed to control the dog gently and prevent pulling.  We used one on our dog, as we don't like choke chains, which in my opinion should be banned altogether.  It did however take a little getting used to initially however as he is an older dog.

well this post isnt far off two years old and Im glad to say Gus walks very well now on collar and lead :)