Puppies will play roughly together mouthing and biting and squealing when it hurts. This is learning early bite inhibition meaning how much biting pressure the pup can safely use on his littermates before causing pain and the play to cease.
When we bring our puppies home - they still continue to learn, explore and play with their mouths only its up to us to teach them and shape their future behaviour. Now you have two choices - you can either prevent the pup from biting any human skin and teach it that it is not acceptable and forbidden or you can continue where the littermates and mother started and teach the puppy that it's ok to mouthe but that human skin is sensitive, takes less bite pressure to cause pain and is more prone to injury. The puppies mouth will become softer as he learns this.
Some dogs are naturally soft mouthed and gentle but more commonly it needs to be taught and learned.
In preventing all contact with human skin and teaching not to mouthe the puppy receives no feedback on the capabilities and strength of its jaws so it has no related concept of bite inhibition.
My friend stumbled down the stairs and fell on one of my dogs who was sleeping She came off with a mere light bruise from a furious German Shepherd! Thank god for bite inhibition!
I've seen people put dog treats down on the floor for their dogs rather than offer them by hand because the dog will snap at the treat biting fingers very hard causing injury. They haven't been taught HOW to be soft mouthed.
Any dog, regardless of its temperament, is capable of inflicting a bite - maybe though pain or fright! Whatever! How hard that bite is - even years down the line - could depend a lot on teaching bite inhibition! It could mean the difference between a grab with its teeth with no broken skin or a lot of damage, maybe even result in the dogs demise!
Lara x

Hear hear! Well put.

I totally agree with you Lara, I hate giving a treat to a dog and having to count my fingers after, and I still like playing rough with my dogs, none of them leave a mark. I have mainly rescue dogs and these have been taught total bite inhibition since I've had them. Even my friend's 2yo son can give things to the boys, usually means he's putting his hand right in their mouths. Ingrid

Hi Lara,

That was SO interesting to read and helps me a lot with my 14 week old pup (bernese) who is so strong and has powerful jaws ..through us yelping etc he is definately getting better with each week..we do let him 'get hold of us' in play ( as now we know our pup we realise it is just 'play') and only "yipe" etc if he puts the 'pressure on' as he usually does with excitement..

Could you help me with another bit of a problem though.. it's when I'm rewarding my puppy, he is sooo greedy he snatches the titbit and hurts my fingers..I'm trying to keep the food or titbit in my enclosed hand so he can smell it but doesn't 'get it' saying "Gently" "Gently" and then I'll give it to him when he sort of calms down and saying "Good Boy". Somehow I didn't think a "yipe"(from me) would have the same meaning to my puppy as it's for taking food from my hand and not biting my skin.Is this making sense??

Sandy x x :)

We are quite lucky in the fact that pup seems to have actually learnt this - I hope he has realised this from us saying "ouch" and "no" but maybe he just realised it for himself . He does tend to just "hold" your hand in his mouth now and just nibble if i can call it that - he seems to realise that he hurts you and so tends not to . Which is such a change from when we first got him as he was constantly mouthing and really hurting .
He is brilliant when giving him treats too as he will take them nicely from you without gobbling or biting fingers .I dont know if this is because we have tended towards touching him when eating ( such as a pat on his head when he first starts to eat ) so he has become used to it . One thing learnt and a million more to teach such as - "down" , recall and heel amongst others :) :) :D
Who said having a puppy was easy
Lel

Hi Sandy

Thanks :) You are on the right track with your pup and the way you offer the treats :)
If he's so snatchy when you initially try to reward him then try teaching him to take gently from you after he has had his meal so he is less hungry and use something not quite so delicious to start.
Hold the treat in your enclosed fist with the palm down and your fingers tucked out of the way (so make the treat small enough). Let him nibble at you to try to find the treat. Too much of a snap and definately use the "yipe" withdrawing your hand if he doesn't back off - no treat! Try again in a bit!
Gradually - using 'Gently' make a gap between your thumb and forefinger so he can poke his nose in it and slowly turn your hand over opening your fingers. If he starts to get snappy snuffling for the treat then turn your hand back over remaking your fist and hiding the treat again. Start again reinforcing the 'gently'.
You might also like to try using a leather glove or similar for a bit of added protection until he gets the idea :)
As he learns you can use less of a clenched fist and more of an open hand until he is gently taking an exposed treat from the fingers alone.
HTH
Lara x

That's brilliant Lara, thanks a lot will do what you suggest..
:D :D
Sandyxx

Our 14 wk old b/c is still mouthin a lot. We've tried the ouch and yelp method and he doesn't take any notice. The trainer at our puppy class said to put our hand on the back of his neck and hold his body into us until he stops moving and then he'll stop but when we try it, yes he stops moving then when we let go, starts to bite again. We always say no to him when he does it, we've tried giving him a toy to chew instead, ignoring him and putting him in another room but nothing really seems to work. Even when we're playin fetch with him, he'll drop his toy in favour of chewing our hands, arms or legs. Can you recommend any method? We're considering getting one of the control collars.

I'm sorry but I'm going to say this anyway. At 14 weeks old what responce do you think you would get from a human baby? ZERO! People want a perfectly trained dog within a day or two of aquireing it. Well you are not going to get it. It takes time. Even a simple word like "No" means no more to a 14 week old puppy than it would to a 14 week old human baby! We post advice on how to go about training but really it is not so much advice as a guide based upon years of experience and if followed then sucess will happen! You are not giving this puppy long enough by half, no, not half, not even a quarter! In fact i'd go so far as to say that at 14 weeks you have not got to the worst part yet!

Follow the advice of your trainer. It is not going to stop over night but stop it will. You will not even be able to say when it STARTS to stop because it won't just stop! Slowly, over a period of maybe 2, maybe 3, maybe even 4 months it will gradually improve.

John

I'm not expecting him to be perfect but Sandypatbear said that she was using the yelp method and she could see the improvement in her Bernese whereas there is no improvement in our b/c. Obviously different methods work for different dogs and I wondered if anybody had another method that had worked for them, not an instant miracle cure!

Edited due to spelling mistake

Hi Jill,
All these things take time, and dogs, like children, learn at different rates :) I'm sure (talking from personal experience only) your pup will get there too. Maybe a yelp sound is too exciting, or not decisive enough? If it hurts, stop playing the game, just as another dog would.

(If it doesn't hurt, then it's still a game and not a problem - my opinion.)

Don't get a control collar for a 14 week old collie!All a control collar would do would be to make him a nervous wreck John is right he is just a baby would you chastise a human baby at that age.Be consistant when he nips cry ouch and put him out quickly.Even at that age they want to please and don't want to be apart from their family.If you do this every time he nips he will learn but you also need a little patience and it must be every time.No rough play when it suits you.Sorry if this sounds harsh.Gilian

I really wasn't keen on the idea of the collar at all but someone said that it had worked for their puppy. We don't rough play with him because personally I think that that dogs don't always know when to stop and we've got 3 young children. Just bought the Dog Listener book but haven't had time to read it yet, hopefully that will give me a few pointers. Have you got a b/c?

I have 4 bcs :D They can be sensitive thats why I said no control collar.Don't get me wrong I have used one on an adult to sort out a barking problem but would never use one on such a young puppy as they can be going through a spooky stage anyway(I mean the citronella spray type)A good book for you to read would be Understanding the Border Collie by Carol Price.She explains Bc's rather well and gives some good advice.Gillian

I've got that book as well. I'm turning my bookcase into a library of dog books! Do your dogs like water? Jake keeps trying to get into the bath whether it's full or empty of people and water. We started bathing him as soon as we got him, had to really as we got him from a farm and he stunk of poo! I think that he'd have a bath every day if we'd let him. (Don't worry he's not climbing the stairs, we've got a downstairs bathroom)

When I look back to the first couple of weeks with our new puppy, I felt like I was going through hell!! I spent all my time having head to heads with Oscar..over pulling him off my six yr old son, he injured my mums leg and had to rush her to the doctors, he got the back of my leg and I had a bad bite.. and I didn't know what it was like to open a door of anykind in the kitchen without a rugby tackle with oscar.. I didn't want the perfect puppy but I wanted to love and cuddle him..none of us could get near enough for a cuddle without risking a nasty scratch..I'm telling a lie..when he was tired..maybe.. I thought,' have I payed 600 pounds for a fluffy crocodile'..and if I need a cuddle I could get one from my husband for nothing..

But Champdog friends came to the rescue, and inbetween, the rolled up newspaper, blasts of water spray, etc etc etc.(I tried them all..) and I'm still not sure how it's all worked.. but work it has..oh yes we've along way to go.. but I've relaxed(Iknow I have) I don't make such a big thing over everything and I'm allowing him to be a pup, when it really matters then I'm really firm, but otherwise we're having some fun, I've tried to relax in the garden and go with him on all the new smells and experiences out there, and share them with him,,and not be so afraid of him coming to harm.. In the house when he's doing something I don't want him too then I give him something 'new' and he follows me to do the more interesting thing..Although I didn't think I was in a hurry I probably was trying to acheive too much too quickly.

Now theres only a few times a day when we have to 'squeal' theres an odd time when he's excited that a sctrach will happen, I still take my leather boots to bed so I can put them on as soon as I get up to go downstairs, as he still has a go at my ankles first thing in the morning..lol

But today my son oscar and I had some great games together and what we call 'family hugs' and Oscar didn't try to bite once it's amzing.. after reading lara's post today I've left my hand in oscars mouth and I could feel him testing his strength and stopping at the point where I would normally make a squeal..But most of all.. above everything, we loved him as a small puppy (who wouldn't) but now it's different, we LOVE HIM, even my son Danny said today, Mummy when Oscar looks at me I can't leave him, I love him so much, and thats only going from the kitchen to the living room...bless!! We have actually fallen in love with him.. I know now when Jeangenie said one of her troublesome dogs turned out to be a soul mate for 15 yrs that Oscar will be mine..

Sorry for going on and on and on..:D :D :D

:D :D :D :D :D :D Sorry Sandy your comment about paying £600 for a fluffy crocodile was a cracker:D :D :D :D :D I suppose that's one way of putting it:D

Stacey x x x

This thread has been interesting to me since I stopped Kassie *nipping* but I suppose I've taught her the bite inhibition without realising. Not that it's turned out to be a bad thing- I discouraged her from nipping (that hurts!) but when playing rough let her *mouth*, she is so well mannered- literally all you say is *Where are your manners* when holding a treat and straight away she'll sit down and take it ever so nicely:D When we're out on the field- if we're at the bottom and Kane (5yr old) is at the top still on the swings I can send her away to *go fetch Kane* to me- obviously she holds him with her mouth but there's never even a scratch:) I never even thought of this *bite inhibition* to be honest but I can only assume it's a good thing or at least in my case:)

Stacey x x x

Hi Jill,

I just wanted to let you know that I was really worried my BC was going to be a devil dog from about 10 weeks to 19 weeks as it seemed like all he ever wanted to do was eat you/ nip you/ tug at you. When we were playing with him he would just ignore the toy and nip instead (v. painful :(), and sometimes he would just be sitting next to me and the next thing be attatched to my hand! Even though I knew it was 'normal', he just seemed a little bit too intent on it at times! :D During this time we tried the yelping but it never seemed to be that effective; what we found worked best was a time-out in another room. We did not coax him in to the other room, just picked him up and put him in there and walked out again. If we left him for 5 minutes it did not have any effect, but about 15 minutes seemed to work quite well. If it was not long enough, he just went back in - but looking back we did not really do it that often. He also went through a trouser tugging phase which luckily did not last that long but saw the demise of a few items of clothing!!!! :D
However at around Christmas this year suddenly instead of biting all the time he began just holding my hand in his mouth and nibbling slighty and this carried on for a couple of weeks, and then suddenly he stopped! :) He is now 25 weeks old and if he even touches my hand with his teeth accidently during play he will immediately let go and grab the correct thing instead! Also most of the razor sharp teeth have now fallen out and now he has fairly blunt (but strong) big boy teeth!!
Sorry for the essay, but I just wanted to let you know that I went through the same thing and there is light at the other end - even if you do look like you have been swimming in a bramble bush for a couple of months!! :D
HTH
Nicola & Jay x

HI Jill

I agree with John that you are reallynot giving your pup enough time - and time is paramount in training :D I'm not sure if you meant an E collar or a spray collar, but either are really not suitable for a normal puppy displaying what is essentially normal behaviour.

It is, however, natural to worry: will it get worse, will he bite today, will he learn to bite someone hard, etc etc....

YOur pup will be (IMHO) more difficult because BC are herding and so are bred to instinctively dodge, herd, and nip. But yet there are all these collies going round who don't bite and who are good, well behaved dogs.

My current bitch is not a BC, but a Terv, which is another herding (and guarding) breed. The onlyway I could possibly have taught her was to calmly put her out the room (or I would leave the room) for up to 5 minutes, then repeat, repeat, repeat, always calm and in control. I used a lead to take her out as she would otherwise turn it all into play. Any other method would have had her turning into either a very submissive scared dog with no spirit ( electric collar) or else one who fought back (newspaper, etc). It is hard for these dogs as they are in some ways expected to go against instincts, but they do of course learn not to bite other packmembers, and your pup will with you :)

Don't listen to the person who suggested the collar, and ignore any further advice from them. It may have worked for them, but they aren't good enough to use any other method which requires patience, dedication, and the building up of a unique relationship - you and your dog :)

Best wishes
Llindsay

Hi Lara

Our Dobermann is now nearly six months old and am pleased to say that after what seems like an eternity he is mouthing less and less. His baby teeth have all fallen out and have been replaced by very big teeth which do not cut into your skin - which I am glad to say after looking like been working with barbed wire for ages.

Now he is testing how hard he can bite without getting told no or to get out into kitchen. He will get hold of hand , leg, foot usually and will if I let him apply increasing pressure until i say ouch. Usually though just tell him no as soon as he does it.

My kids are thoroughly fed up with the nipping and jumping up but like i said it is gradually becoming less and less and I can or husband can usually stave off a nip by just saying no before he grips - doesn't work though when coming up behind you and biting your bum.

Much harder with puppy dobermann this time than last time as now got kids and it is whole new ball game having to watch their actions around dog as well as the what the dog is doing!