A friends golden Retriever pup has only one testicle descended and the vet has said he needs to be castrated to lower the risk of cancer, something we were both aware of. However, I have read on these boards and elsewhere that it is not not actually necessary to remove both and the one that is in it's rightful place can be left and only the undescended one needs to be removed. She would rather leave him as entire as possible as apart from a bit of adolescent humping, he is a happy confident dog with a good temperament. He's almost a year old.
The vet is pushing for total castration, my friend needs some ammunition to talk this over with the vet before she decides.
What are your opinions on this and why? If there are any useful links that you can refer to, I'm sure my friend will be grateful.
Thank you.

My mother's golden had a retained testicle; when the dogwas a year old she had the vet remove the internal one but left the normally-descended one in situ. The dog lived to be 15 without any issues arising, and of course he developed and looked like the male he was. So from experience I wouldn't recommend full castration.

My vet has said in the past that he would advocate the removal of a retained testicle but there is no need to remove the descended one if that is the owners wish.

Thanks for the answers so far, I hope she will be able to get the vet to understand this.

Zuma only had one down, talked to vet who was happy to leave it till he was 2ish as there was no need to rush it, then just remove the retained one. Ended up that he had surgery for suspected gastric blockage at 17 months when the vet 'found' the missing one, quick phone call to me and it was removed but ONLY that one, he still has the descended one and will be 7 in July

One approach would be what someone I knew some 18+ years ago used. Dog only had 1 down, she booked him in for removal at about 1½/2 yrs old.
Vet insisted that he HAD to have both removed and was told 'At present you are our farm vet, decide if you want this to continue, plus I am paying your wage for the surgery to remove one not both so I will sue if you remove both.
Dog came home with one still in place :-D :-D

'' (The cryptorchid testicle should be removed to prevent testicular torsion and testicular cancer, and the normal testicle should be removed to prevent cryptorchid offspring.)''

I've just been web wondering and copied the above from something I was reading, I wonder if the risk of passing on the cryptorchidism is why many vets would want to do a complete removal of both testicles.

So I suppose it's down to how well your friend can manage her boy and be sure that he will not be able to go out girl hunting for any passing floosie that gives him the 'glad eye'

I've suggested she let the breeder know about his little 'problem'. The sire is quite well known, but no idea if there has been similar problems with any of his progeny of which there are quite a few. Can this be inherited via the maternal line?
She has no intention of breeding from him and she is a responsible owner and keeps a close eye on him, but as you say a passing floosie........

I think that it is very important that the breeder should know that this 'little problem' has appeared in your friends dog.

She would need to know that one of her pups has been affected so that she can check and/or alter her breeding activities.

I have to say that my knowledge is not good enough to say whether it can be passed via the maternal line. Others on the forum will know more.

I would still say that for myself if I had a boy with this condition and I had no intention of breeding him then I would only have the retained testicle removed.

In an ideal world there will be no 'passing floosie' as sensible owners with girls in season will keep them safe and watch them like a hawk.

Best wishes to your friend and I hope she makes a decision that she remains happy with.

Can this be inherited via the maternal line?

It can indeed, and even a dog with two testicles can have the gene and throw pups with just one descended.

>In an ideal world there will be no 'passing floosie' as sensible owners with girls in season will keep them safe and watch them like a hawk.

Yes, as responsible dog people we would not be allowing any stud work.  But "passing floozies" are the responsibility of the bitch owner, who should not have a bitch out advertising her wares.

Jodi, your friend doesn't need to get her vet to understand.  She is the customer, and should just tell the vet what is required.  And I would not be having it done until he is a little older.

For those who are frightened out of their wits by the talk of testicular cancer.  I totally understand that a vet is trying to make sure that there are no unwanted litters.  They say that once the op is done, there will be no chance of testicular cancer.  Of course there won't.  The things will have been removed.  But I have never heard a vet tell a client that there is a higher chance of prostate cancer. 

So how many entire dogs have I owned?  Loads since the 70's.  I have never had a dog with testicular cancer, or any other type of cancer.  I guess that would be around 30 odd dogs all told.  So it's not rife is it?

Thank you all for your thoughts, I'm sure my friend will find it helpful in reaching her decision.
There seems no harm in leaving it a bit longer until at least the dog is fully mature, large gundog breed so around 18-24 months.
Vets seem so concerned that we pet owners are all rushing out to madly start breeding our dogs willy nilly instead of assuming that some of us, at least, have more common sense. When my girl was five months, the locum vet asked me if I would like to book her in for a spay. I replied that I wanted my dog to mature before doing that and was treated to a little lecture as if I knew absolutely nothing. Not well received especially as Ive had dogs for about 55 years.

> Vets seem so concerned that we pet owners are all rushing out to madly start breeding our dogs willy nilly instead of assuming that some of us, at least, have more common sense.

You can't win, can you?
On the one hand you seem to have vets wanting everything neutered - and others who actively encourage owners to breed from their untested, unregistered pets. Sounds like the veterinary profession needs to sing from the same hymn sheet.

She is the customer and the vet should just do as she says regardless of what he thinks.  One thing to consider is coat changes. A neutered dog (or bitch for that matter) is highly likely to have significant changes to the coat. It will change texture, shedding pattern and growth. This often results in a coat that is very difficult to groom because is it softer than it should be. It is likely to have lots of undercoat growth that will shed constantly rather than having proper moults a couple of times a year. The amount of coat often increases dramatically too. This often leads to the dog needing to be professionally groomed to get the coat under control.   that is if you can find a groomer willing to groom such a large hairy dog and not all will because of the amount of work involved.

I have had dogs for  30 years. I currently have a 14 yo entire male and 2 younger ones. All live together with no problems even though I have entire bitches. I have never had an accidental mating even though we all live in the same house together.

Back in the 90s I had 2 rescue dogs who both had only one testicle. In both cases I had just the retained one removed and both dogs went on to live into their teens. Both had good manageable coats inspite of being a breed notorious for OTT shedding.

For me, and happily I've never had to make this decision, I'd tend to get them both taken out.  Why? - because why not get it all done under the one general anaesthetic.   I don't normally 'do' castration, other than for medical reasons.   However would it not be possible for a dog with one testicle to still develop a prostate problem later on?

I'm not worried about looks - but I am concerned about health.

ps  If this dog was significantly under a year old, I'd wait, but as he's now a year, it seems to make more sense to take them both and be done with it.   My opinion and thinking about all this does move on (I'm definitely old school, and realising this more and more after hanging around here for a while now!!).

>However would it not be possible for a dog with one testicle to still develop a prostate problem later on?

Castration doesn't guarantee no prostate problems in later life; we've treated a few castrated dogs for prostate tumours.

The sort of prostate tumours that entire dogs develop can be cured by castration; the prostate tumours that castrated dogs get are largely incurable.

I was in at my vets this morning so asked him his opinion about castrating totally or leaving the descended one in place and removing the retained. He said that vets recommend castration in these cases to remove the retained in case of cancer and the descended one to prevent breeding only. There is no medical reason why the descended one shouldn't be left in place. He also said, as has been mentioned above, that it is her decision and if the vet won't leave the descended one, then find another vet who will. Interesting, I thought.

I've emailed my friend letting her know your opinions as well as my vets, also suggesting she leave it a while longer until he's fully mature at around eighteen months and that she should tell the breeder.
Thank you all.

Jodi, this study is worth reprinting as it shows on balance dogs are better left entire for their overall health http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

The neuter everything attitude of the modern veterinarian is driven by the view that most people are too irresponsible, or too stupid to deal with an entire animal.

Thanks Brainless.

I knew people who had a Westie with one undescended testicle and they just had that one removed. As long as they understand he shouldn't be bred from, absolutely no reason why they shouldn't insist the vet does as they request. I remember my 13 month boy going in to have a fleshy lump off his front leg, first (armed with my breeder's opinion) I had to insist they took the lump off while still small rather than wait to see what happened (risking a much bigger lump and scar), and then they offered to neuter him while he was in, as he'd just won BOB at his latest 2 shows they got a pretty short answer, he won a CC the following month! I think my breeder would have gone round and castrated the vet if they'd touched his bits! :-D

I was thinking more about the occasional hound we had who had a prostate 'flare up' when older, not a tumour.   We had two, the first being fully castrated to stop all that, and the second a 'chemical castration' which did help too.

Also, to another answer - it is (or was because I've been retired from showing for years now) allowed to show a castrated male although whether he'd ever achieve high awards (CCs) would be unlikely!!    I'm not sure whether, just as with spayed bitches at the time I was showing, you need KC 'permission' to compete with a castrated male, much as it would be obvious, unlike with bitches.

My oldest boy had the (inguinal) retained testicle removed and the descended testicle left at my express instruction--this was after an argument with the vet nurse and anther vet at the same practice. The argument really took off when i told them I wanted him hip scored while he was under the GA. For me it was an opportune moment to add to the data held on our breed, and for them it was clearly motivated by some underhand intention to use him as a stud dog!!! This despite the fact that ours is a numerically small breed, everyone knows his lines and I make no secret of his "one-derful" status.

Change your vet and live happily ever after :-)--we have.

> for them it was clearly motivated by some underhand intention to use him as a stud dog!!!

YOu would have thought vets would be all for breeding from cryptorchid dogs. More money to come in neutering the offspring :)

> She is the customer and the vet should just do as she says regardless of what he thinks. 

Lovely. Do you think everyone else in life is your bitch?
The vet should do as his conscience allows. If he feels it unethical to remove only the undescended testicle, then he should pass up on the golden opportunity to have the privilege of operating on the dog, and let the owner find another vet to do it.
Personally, I would remove only the undescended testicle if the owner wished, as long as the dog was microchipped and this bit of information recorded on the database (just in case it ended up in a shelter years down the line with the shelter vet fruitlessly searching for the missing ball) and the owner understood the heritability issue.

Thank you Irishvet, you seem to have the same view on this as my vet.
My friend understands that it could well be hereditary and we were discussion to day how she will word her email to the breeders as they have kept three of the puppies from the litter. She is still undecided on what to do. Her main reason for keeping the descended one is so that he doesn't suffer from coat changes which in the breed could be problematic, and that his temperament remains as good as it is now. He is nearly a year old, and, apart from loving his sister (my dog) a bit too much and having a love affair with his bedding, he is a friendly easy going dog and is contented with his lot. Neither of us are going to be breeding our dogs and he is microchipped.

Do vets not provide a service? so a client is entitled to ask for the service they wish to have (assuming it is legal and it doesn't cause cruelty/suffering).

For example I might prefer to have tubal ligation or vasectomy to prevent breeding, but maintain required hormones.

When I asked one vet to vasectomise a Hob ferret so eh could mate the Jills to keep them healthy rather than have them all neutered I was met with a simple no, which I found unacceptable.

Unfortunately my rescue ferrets (age unknown) died in the winter.

>> She is the customer and the vet should just do as she says regardless of what he thinks. 
> Lovely. Do you think everyone else in life is your bitch?

If I am paying a vet for his service then I expect him to listen to my wishes and do as I ask. The animal is mine not the vets and it is up to me whether or not I  want him fully castrated or not. It is even up to me if I want to breed him. It may not be advisable or ethical but it would not be illegal so therefore it is my choice not the vets. And if a vet is not willing to go with my wishes then yes I would go to another vet.