hi there im new to this forum and im just looking for some advice. Ive had quite alot of interest in my dogs (cross breed terriers) so after many questions and decision making I decided to mate them. Both the dog and the bitch are maiden, the bitch is 2 and a half years, and to be honest I wasnt expecting much to happen!! If I'm honest it didnt really bother me if they did mate or not, it was only just as I'd had alot of people asking me if I would consider breeding them as they would like a pup from them. To my surprise they did mate and did tie (Sunday 4th of may), I was with them the whole time they were tied and they were both relaxed, there was no pulling or trying to seperate and after 15-20 mins they seperated and that was that. I removed the dog from the pen and left the bitch in there for about 30 mins and then let her out. At that point she seemed fine and was walking around the garden normally, after a leg stretch I put her back in her pen and didnt think  any more of it.... Until later that evening when I went out to check on her and she seemed very sore and stiff on her back legs, I let her out of the pen and she kind of mooched around the garden but wasnt really interested so I put her back in the pen and thought given the circumstances she might be a bit sore!! The next day she was still a bit sore so I took her for a walk, she started off a bit sore but after a few mins seemed more 'normal', I also noticed that she hadnt done a poo. I gave her a can of meat, as she usually has dry biscuits, and this normally seems to help her poo!! We are now on 6th of may and she hasnt pooed and still seems quite sore, I would just like to know if this is normal? If Im honest I feel gutted as I only mated her because other people were interested in having a puppy, I feel guilty enough, so please no nasty comments. I would just like to know if this has happened to anyone else and what they did?

many thanks

You need to see the vet. It's not normal for the bitch to be sore or constipated after being mated, she should be as normal.

Never had that problem so would check her out as above.

Have been to see vet today who said it would be quite normal in a maiden bitch, that she is just sore and has prescribed Metacam and lactulose. The constipation is due to the soreness. Poor girl.

I have to agree with those above, never seen soreness in a maiden bitch and would not consider it normal.   Especially as it continued past the initial day.

I would keep an eye on her and maybe get her urine tested.   It is quite possible she has a UTI, and that would definately make her sore.

Have been to see vet today who said it would be quite normal in a maiden bitch, that she is just sore and has prescribed Metacam and lactulose.

I'd seriously question this vet -not only is it not normal, but Metacam should not be used in pregnant animals according to the manufacturers, see link to datasheet:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Boehringer_Ingelheim_Limited/Metacam_1_5_ACY-nbsp_ADs-mg_ml_Oral_Suspension_for_Dogs/-44440.html

I had a maiden bitch mated last week, she's been 100 % her usual self.

The vet advised to only use the Metacam for 4 days as implantation doesnt take place untill 16-17 days after ovulation, so the Metacam would be out of her system before implantation. I doubt I will ever mate her again after what has happened over the last couple of days, her welfare comes first to me and if I'd have known this would happen I would never have mated her in the first place!!!

Thankyou all for you're replies.

Again, as above never seen this kind of soreness!
Wonder how many bitches the vet has mated as definitely not normal at all!
was she happy when the mating took place? Didn't display signs of much discomfort or pain?

I'd seriously question this vet -not only is it not normal, but Metacam should not be used in pregnant animals according to the manufacturers, see link to datasheet:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Boehringer_Ingelheim_Limited/Metacam_1_5_ACY-nbsp_ADs-mg_ml_Oral_Suspension_for_Dogs/-44440.html

I had a maiden bitch mated last week, she's been 100 % her usual self.

So would I!!!   If she doesn't have a UTI she could have picked up some other infection from the dog.   NONE of my maiden bitches has ever been sore after mating.   To the point I'd suggest this would be far from 'normal'.

I can't ignore the fact that you have bred mix-bred dogs.   I just hope the people who have shown an interest in having a puppy, are still there by the time you (may) have puppies to sell.  Responsible breeders do not mate mix-bred dogs - if asked, they recommend people go to a breeder who is producing A BREED and have their own dogs neutered.

ps   I have no idea what your vet is talking about re the implantation timing.   Conception may not take place immediately, at the time of the mating, but probably takes place within 24/48 hours...?  And I'd not want anything in her system if she's likely to be pregnant - perhaps you misunderstood what he was telling you?

>ps   I have no idea what your vet is talking about re the implantation timing.   Conception may not take place immediately, at the time of the mating, but probably takes place within 24/48 hours...?  And I'd not want anything in her system if she's likely to be pregnant - perhaps you misunderstood what he was telling you?

The vet means that although conception takes place shortly after the mating, the embryos float free in the uterus for the first 3 weeks and do not attach to the walls of the uterus until then. No idea whether this makes a difference to the metacam as I'm not a vet! :-)

> The vet means that although conception takes place shortly after the mating, the embryos float free in the uterus for the first 3 weeks and do not attach to the walls of the uterus until then. No idea whether this makes a difference to the metacam as I'm not a vet!

research shows that teratogenic (birth defect causing) compounds usually cause the death of a fetus in the first few days after conception. Whearas with a more mature fetus defects are more likely to occur than fetal death. So if Metacam is harmful to the developing fetus then at the conception stage it would seem possible that it would cause  the pregnancy to fail rather than to produce defects.

Time and time again we see vets acting ( possibly subconsciously) as if a pregnancy doesn't matter.
In the UK they have such a mind set of neutering and no breeding in their tunnel vision, it often seems to be an after thought.

So many posts about "my vet said" showing their total lack of experience/ commitment / interest in reproductary medicine.

Have to agree, such as the vet who wanted to spay my friends mated bitch as she had a bit of clear discharge at the implantation stage and he claimed it was the start of Pyometra, needless to say she did not go with his opinion, but did take AB's, much to dire warnings an of course the bitch was pregnant and went on to have a fine litter (only her second at 6 years of age).


The vet means that although conception takes place shortly after the mating, the embryos float free in the uterus for the first 3 weeks and do not attach to the walls of the uterus until then. No idea whether this makes a difference to the metacam as I'm not a vet! :-)

O k a y?   She says, cautiously???

Well after 2 more days of a poorly dog I went to see a different vet who couldnt believe that the other vet had sent us home, after further examinations it was revealed that she had a tumor growing inside her that had blocked her back passage which was why she couldnt go to the toilet, she would most likely have had this from birth and by this point it had caused neurological problems (the lameness) which could not be resolved. After scans and a long conversation with the vet about possible options and outcomes, we decided it was in the dogs best interest to be put to sleep. The vet that we saw on Tuesday is being called into the management about the diagnosis she gave which caused undue suffering to my poor little dog.

MamaBas, in response to youre 'I cant believe you bred a mix-breed dog'....not every one wants a pedigree, some people just want a lovely family dog with a superb temperament, which was what my pet was. A lovely family dog with a superb temperament who will be dearly missed, regardless of her breed.

What a sad outcome! :( I am so sorry for your loss. And once again a vet that proved they really know NOTHING about breeding. It happens far too often. Good on you for making a complaint.

Thankyou Goldmali, we are all terribly upset my little boy is devastated they really did love each other, I has this silly idea that they would be life long companions :'(

I hope you receive a sincere apology from the first vet.
It doesn't make up for the tragic loss of your precious girl but I feel he needs to be censured for this.
I'm so sorry.

OMG I am so sorry to hear that, what a horrible thing to happen to you and your poor little girl. :-(

thankyou for youre sincere apologies 

How awful for you, what a tragic outcome. RIP little girl.

thanks for your kind words

I of course add my sympathies in your sad loss - and I'd bet your vet was just as gutted.   They hate it not to have anything to offer other than peace.   So sad.   If you can find a good vet who can actually DIAGNOSE hang onto him/her - they are rare!!!

Just to add I appreciate that not everybody wants a purebred dog, but have to say in my opinion if that's the case, there are plenty of dogs in Shelters up and down the country looking for another chance of a loving permanent home, without breeding mix-bred puppies.   I realise now isn't the time to be say this, but ....................

Thankyou for you're sympathies.

I think we will have to agree do disagree, if we all thought the same life would be boring ;-)

Patterdale, I just wanted to also add my deapest sympathy for your sad loss.

Mamabas: Whilst the poster may not in your(and other peoples) opinion, made the wisest decision, it was her decision to make. She came on this forum looking for advice, not condemnation.

Not everyone wants a rescue puppy/dog, or be able to cope with the problems that they often bring. Your parting remark was uncalled for in the circumstances; totally unnecessary and extremely hurtful and insensitive.

As you said yourself, this may not be the time to state this, so why did you?

It is rare that I post on this forum, but remarks in posts such as yours do make me rather upset and angry.

Oops.   Mia culpa.   I don't come on here with the intention of causing distress I can assure you.   But I also feel very strongly about certain things and when I do feel strongly, I offer my opinion.

Again deepest apologies for any distress I may have caused ....................

This is such a sad story about a much loved little dog.

I am so very, very sorry for your loss.  x

Jean

thankyou for your sympathies and support it is very much appreciated