I have just been reading on a free ads site, their take on whether it is best for puppies to go at 8 or 12 weeks and it basically recommends 12 weeks as best.
Mine are going at 8 weeks and I believe this is the best for them although I understand some smaller breeds do go at 12 weeks.
My reasons are, that mine are now proper dogs in size. They are ready to be separated from their siblings as they have been arguing for the last couple of weeks and I do not think this is good for them. Mum stopped feeding them totally from about 5 to 5 and a half weeks because there are 10 of them and she obviously found it too daunting and even painful. I would not dream of forcing her to stay with them. Although she obviously wanted to go into see them, as soon as they ran round her she scarpered so for 3 weeks they have not had her company as such. They see my other dogs whisking past all the time and occasionally get chastised by them if they are by the edge of the run. There is no way that I could give 10 puppies the sort of socialisation that each owner can give them at a time that they are soaking everything up. I do my best but it would not be the same.
They are totally and utterly ready for the outside world and indeed escape from the quite extensive run regularly ! and I have a tendency to agree with the guide dog thing of 6 weeks but obviously adhere to 8 weeks.
Wondered what others thought about the website statement which quite clearly recommend 12 weeks as the ideal.

That certainly flies in the face of accepted practice.

Well that site seems to be frequented (at least their forums) by some rather dubious types of breeder, I'd take ti with a pinch of salt.

Behaviourally the ideal age is actually 49 days based on Ian Dunbars book and others, it is just before the first fear stage at around 8 weeks.

Of course if the breeders is conscientious an older puppy especially if it is not the whole litter but one or two pups staying longer, should be correctly socialised as tic would be if it was in it's final home.

I have had many a discussion with some folk on this forum who say they would never purchase a puppy beyond 8 weeks as it won't turn into the dog they wish, which I heartily disagree with if purchased from the right kind of breeder, any age of pup or dog should be as good as any other age, unless we are taking specialised training.

I've got the impression most breeders of the medium & large breeds let them go at 8 weeks. I have toys so they don't go until 10 weeks, and I think some of the tiniest toys wait until 12 weeks.

I have always tended to go by how well developed and established in their diets my puppies are and for sure, the number of puppies involved.   Bassets do better being held until 10 weeks in fact although when I knew the people involved were experienced in the breed, and felt the puppies were ready for more individual attention, I have let them go after 8 weeks.  

That website isn't the best in my opinion, going by who uses them mainly, but if they are saying 12 weeks, that's good.   I'd far rather that than 6 weeks!!!   Some will get into the 'fear period' which isn't anything I've ever felt relevant, with my main breed.   It has always been about the litter involved and the puppies involved.   It is nice to get them out sooner rather than later, from a work/newspaper useage point of view LOL.

Like Lucy says , it is DEFINITELY a case of needing to take breed into consideration. I have a litter of 7 week old large pups at the moment and boy are they ready to leave! Just the fact that they act as a pack in everything they do, they can even chase and pin down an adult cat! I am forever having to rescue my poor cats (who don't fear dogs). They are into everything and totally weaned off their mum for the past 3 weeks. However they have to stay until 8 weeks as per the KC ABS. Had they on the other hand been my toybreed they'd be nowhere NEAR ready to go, as there I don't let them go before 12 weeks. It's like two different species, they are that different.

For the majority of pups, i.e. any NOT small toys, I'd say it would be very detrimental to have them leave at 12 weeks as sadly there are not many breeders willing and able to do all the early socialising that is so vital.

Then again if Pets 4 Homes got the majority of their irresponsible back yard breeders to hang on to their pups for 12 weeks, maybe it would put them off breeding again! The extra feeding costs and extra cleaning past 8 weeks is considerable. (She says, having mopped the floors clear of the night's poo first thing in the morning only to have to do it again 5 minutes later when pups came in from the garden and started pooing again.)

From a breeders point of view my ideal is to stagger puppies leaving over approximately two weeks, starting from 7 1/2 weeks weeks (the minimum age, and only if that falls on a weekend when long distance new owners will find collection easiest).

I have often had the odd puppy stay longer due to holidays, Pet Passport procedures etc.

>However they have to stay until 8 weeks as per the KC ABS.

Since when has this become a requirement????

Where can I confirm?

I always thought it was a recommendation rather than a requirement?

It's not a requirement: the ABS requirement says: " Not sell puppies before the age of 8 weeks old unless certified as being suitable for sale and re-homing by a veterinary surgeon and never before the age of 6 weeks.

Exactly, so who would take the puppy to the vet and pay for a certificate just to sell it a few days early? Not me. :)

Lots of people have their vet check the pups over at 7 weeks. :-)

My pups were vet checked & microchipped at 7.5 weeks. 1 left at 8 weeks & is fine. 1 is going on 11th as  I honoured holidays, but I have 1 who can't be picked up till 24th/25th & already I'm having 2nd thoughts. Prospective owner is coming tomorrow. I don't know if I'm just going into panic mode....am I being over protective? Every time I look at the 3rd pup, I burst into tears...I think it could be a case of 'Empty Nest Syndrome' creeping up. The only reason I'm not keeping one is the colour factor :( Was desperate for a particular colour, but it just didn't happen.

>Wondered what others thought about the P4H statement which quite clearly recommend 12 weeks as the ideal.

The P4H policy must vary according to the breed, because for dalmatians it clearly says "Puppies should not leave their mother until at the very least, 8 weeks old.". No mention of 12 weeks at all.

I have a vet check when they are microchipped at 5 - 6 weeks and unless issues present they leave home at 7 weeks. Done this when part of ABS .. Now ex member :)

I got my first pup at 6 weeks and he had no problems but I like mine to go between 7-8 weeks. Apparently this was wrong according to one behaviourist on bookface as she maintained even large breed pups should stay at least another couple of weeks. I can't see why as my mums have disowned pups way before then and if the litter is large by the time you've fed/watered/cleaned the pups there's not much time left for individual playing and socialising so surely the pup is better off getting 1-2-1 attention in their new homes.

I have a vet check when they are microchipped at 5 - 6 weeks

Now personally I wouldn't dream of taking pups to the vet at this age, unvaccinated, especially considering that we came home from the vet twice last year with kennel cough. I do my own chipping safely at home.

The recommendation sheet is after where it says 8 weeks read for further info ( which it does for my breed ) click on the option of further info and it goes to a sheet which basically says it is infinitately preferable for the puppies to stay with Mum and litter mates to 12 weeks.
I took mine to the vet but they were carried in, in my cage, and we had the place to ourselves.

>Now personally I wouldn't dream of taking pups to the vet at this age

Vets do home visits if you ask them. :)

>Wondered what others thought about the website statement which quite clearly recommend 12 weeks as the ideal.

The only age that I would decry, is 6 weeks.  My own vet says 7 weeks is the ideal.  If I bred larger breeds (I don't breed my Collies) then it would be 8 weeks.  My toy breed isn't ready at 8 weeks, but the breed club recommends 12 weeks anyway.

with medium or large breeds 8 weeks is fine. i have a toy breed and her pups wont be leaving until 10wks, they are 3 atm

"Puppies should not leave their mother until at the very least, 8 weeks old."   Pets4Dogs - Bassets

I wish, as in America (most places) it was illegal to sell a puppy of under 8 weeks of age.

That really flies in the face of behavioural studies where 49days is considered ideal.
http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/choosing_puppy.shtm  and http://blog.betternaturedogtraining.com/2013/07/18/littermate-syndrome/
"Seven to eight week-old puppies are ready to leave their mother and littermates to develop normally as individuals.  I work with my clients to implement an intensive socialization program to expose puppies to a large variety of people (gold standard:  100 people before 12 weeks of age), children, places, animals, noises, bicycles, cars and so forth.  Weeks 8 through 14 are the most crucial, and during this period I encourage my clients to take their puppies to as many puppy socials as feasible.  Learning that there are other dogs in the world is an important part of normal social development, and play between puppies is how they learn and practice many adult behaviors and communication skills, including the "calming signals" that dogs use to diffuse otherwise fraught situations."

http://dogtime.com/puppy-when-to-bring-home-dunbar.html interestingly says what I often repeat on these threads

"For many puppies, eight weeks is the right age

Eight weeks of age has long been accepted as the optimal time to acquire a new pup. By eight weeks, sufficient dog-dog socialization has taken place with mother and litter mates to tide the puppy over until he is old enough to safely meet and play with other dogs in puppy class and dog parks. Yet the puppy is still young enough to form a strong bond with the members of his new family.

The relative level of doggy expertise in each home is a vital consideration in determining whether the puppy is better off staying longer in his original home or leaving earlier to live with his new owners. It is often assumed that breeders are experts and owners are rank novices, so that it makes sense to leave the pup with the breeder as long as possible. A conscientious breeder is usually better qualified to socialize, housetrain, and chewtoy-train the puppy. When this is true, it makes sense to get the puppy when he is older........"

I must say as my pups aren't ear tattooed until 7 weeks and I worm them at that age, and find that a few days for their tummies to settle before homing is best mine never leave until 7 1/2 weeks if that is when a weekend falls, so for me 7 - 8 weeks fits best for pups to start leaving, level of experience of new owners, individual pups forwardness etc will all play a part..

Being a numerically small breed, it is rare for pups to be homed only locally, many have long journeys which are easiest at a weekend, and as I don't6 like all pups leaving in the same week, starting them leaving just before 8 weeks allows them to all be homed by 9 or 10 weeks, if that is what suits the new owners.

As I say, with my breed, which is a sensitive breed, 10 weeks is generally speaking the ideal time for them to leave the breeder.  I've had no reports back from our puppy owners, that they have been in trouble when leaving us at that age.   Horses for courses?   It's easy to generalise, but also again, if I've felt my puppies would do better going from us earlier (with the bigger litters perhaps) to receive a more individual attention, then they went earlier than 10 weeks, but certainly never before 8 weeks.

Boxers ready at 7-8 weeks.
Cavaliers around 10-12 weeks but I keep the little ones until I'm ready to let them go.

Temperaments are bred for and with my normal socialisation all thrive and become well balanced adults.
Inherited Temperament flaws may show up and be affected by lack of socialisation.

>Temperaments are bred for and with my normal socialisation all thrive and become well balanced adults.<br />Inherited Temperament flaws may show up and be affected by lack of socialisation.

This is a point that many who over egg the issue of socialisation being 'all' do not accept.

I suppose unless you specifically breed for temperament ....it all seems a lottery to them.

Surely if nothing else any breeder should breed for temperament and health at least. 

We can all live with a good natured, healthy ugly dog, but who wants a beauty who is vicious/nervous and sick/suffering/falling apart.

goldmali I don't take the pups to the surgery. My vet comes to me at home, he needs to chip them to complete the DEFRA paperwork for docking.

My larger breed are more than ready to move onto new homes by 7 weeks. I let them go between 7 1/2 and 8 weeks and have never had a problem. They go for a vet check at 7 weeks and as long as all is fine a couple of days later they start to leave. Believe me 8 baby Berners are fun but unless you have eyes in every side of your head they are like little adventurers, nothing is safe.... they really do need to be having 1 - 1 attention by 8 weeks. Bernese are very people orientated and a litter will chose to play with humans over littermates, they watch your every move and will stop immediately from a free for all litter play session if a human walks into the room. 8 sets of baby teeth the size of most JRT's take some playing with !!They have to learn in the nest that humans are to be bitten gently .....ouch.
It is very breed related IMO
Aileen

That is so true, I have one dog with an extremely pretty head and good movement who is a nightmare to live with, very vocal and highly strung, and another who is mismarked, has tear staining, odd front construction and therefore movement - but is so gentle, easy going and loving that she is an absolutely joy. Show wise I never should have kept her - but I have no regrets! She is a rally obedience champion so has nothing to prove as far as I'm concerned.

>We can all live with a good natured, healthy ugly dog

Have lived with several :-) and loved the bones of them.