I don't have reliable recall yet with my 10 month old boy. He is a biggish lad weighing in at 45 kilos...so far. He will probably be around 50 kilos when he is finished growing.

I have been using a long line in a field next door for training and also when we are out in the park or other walking areas. The long line is a pain as it becomes knotted and he gets himself and me tied up in it. We have a short leather road walking lead for busy areas but I like to give him some controlled freedom on our long daily walks.

I have been looking at retractable leads here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLEXI-Tape-Cord-retractable-dog-leads-extending-leash-12-to-60kg-3-to-8m-/271152387414?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_Steamers_Cookers_PP&var=&hash=item3f21f11556. I have never really considered one of these before as I associate them with smaller dogs but am wondering if one of these would do the trick.

Has anyone used one of these on a large breed dog? Are they reliable, very strong and hardy? Are they relatively easy for walking and giving the dog freedom without tying us up together? What is a preferable length? The long line that we are using currently is 30 metres but I don't use all of this as it is just too long, so have to tie most of it up in an elastic band. If you ever see a slightly frazzled woman walking a large fawn male Briard, on a knotty looking black long line, with half of it wrapped in an elastic band, you have just met us!!

Opinions and experiences please :-)

Personally I would stick with the long line, you will most likely struggle to keep hold of an extendable lead if he takes off at 100mph after something! Cut your line down to the length you actually use :) can you leave it trailing with knots up it so you can step on it if you need to? Or leave it long and leave it trailing? Less likely to tangle up if it's left trailing, and rope types tangle less than the 1" wide tape types.

I find them pointless, because all that happens is that the dog moves to the end of the lead and then that's it -it's no more freedom than a shorter lead, he's just further away from you but just as attached to a lead. I think the longest one is 8 metres. It teaches nothing and is awkward to operate and hold. A long line trailing on the ground is of far more use. :)

Personally I'd definitely not recommend them for larger dogs. I walk a number of dogs that have them, one in particular a doberman and he has managed to pull it out of my hands a number of times when running at full pelt. I'd not use them with something nearer to 50kg!! I'd continue with the longline and have it trail behind him when necessary.

Yep, I can leave it trailing with knots up it so I can step on it but the problem seems to be that he also gets it caught under his legs, in his armpits and even in his testicle area. Panic sets in when this happens, understandably! In the end he looks at me as if to say " my freedom just isn't worth it" as I am always asking him to "stop" while I untangle the both of us. But yes, I could cut it down, I was just being a tight ass and thinking about if and when I may need to use it again in the future for other pups and also thinking, "there must be something out there that is better" for us both to enjoy our walks. Obviously he will, one day, be free, when he is a bit more trustworthy, a little less unpredictable and a lot less rambunctious Lol...

Is your long line one of those thin cord type ones? If so they are more trouble than they are worth in my opinion and just get knotted and tangled in no time. The best type are lunge lines used for horses - made of  webbing and far easier to let out and loop up again than the cord lines.

This sort of line http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=lunge+lines&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=28662514020&hvpos=2t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7592168937790090523&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2b0x7i8ogz_b

Ok, thanks everyone for the advice, having never, ever used one of these before, I am pleased that I have sought your advice. I have for once, saved myself some money :-) I am so

So, the long line it is. Would you all recommend that I cut the long line down to a more reasonable size then? I know that everyones needs vary but what would you all say is a reasonable length? It does trail, on the odd occasion, when he is sniffing or distracted by something, like a bird farting!

> Would you all recommend that I cut the long line down to a more reasonable size then?

There are places on Ebay that make them any length and any colour you want.... I think I paid about £3.50 for a 10m one a few months ago.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/CHURCH-PRODUCTS-UK?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Harley, I have tried your link and the product is not available but this is what I have. I got the size wrong above, it is actually a 50ft line. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NWMB70/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Is this the best one to have for non knotability? :-) Or should I buy a slightly shorter one, I bought this originally when he was a pup for maximum freedom in the field and our large garden, should I now reduce the length slightly?

I edited the link to a different one as realised the original one didn't work -- hopefully the new one does :-)

Thank you Harley, yes, this is the one that I have. I put a link up on my last post to show you Lol

Extending leads are downright dangerous.

Either the dog will end up at the full length of the lead and stay there,  or the dog, if young will more likely at some point take off at speed and

A.  Get to the end and somersault because of the sudden stop of the line, breaking the bit that retracts in the process,  the jolt to the throat and neck probably does no good either.

Or, if a heavier dog,

B.  Get to the end and break the bit that retracts, whilst having a nasty jolt to the neck area.  The person holding the other end will either loose it, or break a few fingers :-(

Of course, some dogs walk quite happily on an extending lead.   Usually halfway across a busy road making drivers panic and brake sharply, or swerve to avoid killing the poor animal.

These were and are my reservations with extendable leads Dill which is why I have never even entertained the idea before now but was looking for an option to the long line for the reasons that I stated. Hence I asked on here before buying one :-)

I, as said, was only ever considering using one when for when we were either in the park or going on our usual long rural walks as we live in the middle of nowhere. I have a short leather lead for road and public walking. Would never consider one of these for walking in built up areas.

So people, the consensus of opinion is a no no with an extendable? To be honest, I am slightly relieved as I have never liked the idea of them, having seen them in practice.

I just need to cut down my existing long line so that it is of a more manageable length.

I quite like my CLIX longline. The only problem is if you use it early in the morning or on the beach it soaks up a ridiculous amount of water!

> So people, the consensus of opinion is a no no with an extendable? To be honest, I am slightly relieved as I have never liked the idea of them, having seen them in practice

I partly agree and partly disagree - there that's helpful isn't it!!

I have a dog for whom an extending lead is perfect, another for whom it's unnecessary, and yet another who would probably be a problem with one...

They can be an absolute godsend for an already lead trained dog to have a bit more freedom in areas where they cannot safely be allowed to roam totally off lead.  I use one for a dog who can sometimes be tempted to chase livestock.  He has lovely lead manners, is fairly attentive, but wouldn't recall reliably if allowed to move too far away from me.

I only every use the tape version as it retracts completely.  The cord version of the extending lead is rubbish, and dangerous. However you must never exceed the weight limits recommended and I would never allow a dog to run to the end of the line so that they are stopped with force when the lead runs out.  In practice I always walk with the brake on until we are in a 'safe' area where he can allowed the brake off to mooch.     My dog has been trained to this lead and knows his perimeter which I've set at app 2/3rds (this is the point I would ask for a stop, a sit, a turn, or a pause).  I also scan the horizon and I'm as vigilant when he is on this lead as I am with the other dogs when they off, that is I'm constantly managing their distances from me.  The flexi lead is my safety mechanism as it gives me the confidence to relax around distractions and this definitely translates to the dog.  If I say "Cows" he tends to trot back to my side, in the old days if I tried to recall him as soon as I saw them he'd check the horizons before deciding whether to return!

So my advice is not for a young, heavy dog but in my scenario above it's a perfect tool.  As with most tools it's a bit useless or downright dangerous in the wrong hands :)

The flexi giant is the only oen that would work for a dog as large as yours.

It is all tape and very strong and part of the lead is exposed, but the case is still quite heavy.

The main issue with the flexi's and any lead really is that if the dog gets to the end fast it can be ripped out of your hand by the weight and speed.

I'm going to go against the grain and put in a positive for the extending leads.  They are not dangerous if used properly and with the right dog - but, that is the issue, of course.

I use flexis regularly with two of my dogs.  River is not allowed off lead because of back problems, but she is one of those dogs who will pee over other dogs' pees and will pull like a train to do it - also not allowed, and I've never been able to stop her doing it.  So, to prevent her doing herself harm that way, I got the flexi.  I did some training on a short lead to get her to walk reliably, now she has a 5m flexi all the time and I have no problems at all with her.  She never bolts, she never hits the end, she never goes faster than a trot.  And this was not a reliable dog - I still have trouble with her in the garden running sometimes, or getting a giddy on and leaping around me (also not allowed!).  She knows that when a lead of any kind is on, she must be sensible.

Linc has one because along one side of the field I walk on, he is not at all reliable - too many unfenced gardens with food left out for animals, too many cats, too much fly tipping.  I also used it when I first got him because his recall with dogs was non-existant, and I detest long lines (no problem with people using them, I just do get on with them myself).  Again, some training to get him calm when on a lead, and again, he does not bolt or hit the end hard.  He was only a year old when I started him on it and still very crazy (he is dobe/dally and a large one).

Also - there should never be a jolt to the throat or neck because a flexi should only ever be used with a harness, for safety.  The same is true of a longline and frankly, if a dog is likely to bolt on a flexi, they will be just as likely to do it on a long line.  It's all training.  I have used long lines before and had that problem - and a nasty friction burn around my ankle when the dog (my dobe pup at the time) ran a big ring round me then off towards a dog at full speed.  If he'd been on a flexi, I'd have had it locked the second he sped up.  But I will say, that does take a bit of good timing/reflexes which I do have!

The problem with flexis come with the idiots who leave them unlocked alongside roads (mine are only on normal leads when pavement walking, the flexis are only used once we are in the park or field) or don't shorten and lock them around other dogs/people etc.  My brother is one of those - did it with his crazy dog all the time, no matter what I tried to say to him.  But when that dog moved in here, I had her trained very quickly to be sensible on it as she was never fully reliable off.

I use flexis too and have for years. Like all these tools they are not dangerous if people use common sense. The most dangerous part of any device is the human controling it.

Exactly.  I got taken totally off my feet by a long line once - the dog attached to it was highly dog aggressive and being walked right through the middle of a very busy park, with the owner not reeling it in, just letting it trail.  So of course, the dog charged at mine, they tried to move away round me, did a couple of circles and thud!

I also use flexis, with my old Lab years ago, and more recently with my last Cocker who was both totally deaf and afflicted by cataracts in his teens.  Had no problems with either, and my elderly Cocker was able to have some safe semi-freedom on his walks.  I agree that a dog does need to be trained to walk safely with them, using the lock to teach the limits. 

I guess if one were concerned about dropping the cassette, it would be possible to add a wrist-loop to the handle of the cassette or to the hand-loop on the tape. 

Flexi leads?   HATE 'EM!!   For starters, how often have I seen people with their dog on one of these, on a pavement with it fully extended.   If only they realised that if the dog suddenly dived sideways for some reason, he could be half-way across the road.   A lead, for me, should be no longer than 6 foot which means you'd have control over the dog which is part of why a dog should be on a lead in the first place.  If the dog needs free-running, then a solid recall needs to be trained for so the dog can be let off the lead, in a safe area.

When we bought our Whippet I bought a 30 ft lunge line from Ebay for her which is about an inch wide.   I'd take her out into a local field and put her on it to train her in the recall.   I had to be extremely careful she didn't belt to the full length of the line or her neck would have been snapped.   I'd let her out, call her and if she didn't respond, give it a small tug to get her attention, and 'reel her in'.    Yes, I appreciate the getting caught up bit and for normal walking wouldn't use the line.  I didn't let her trail the line and used it only for training.   The sad bit with her is although her recall is good, she's inclined to be spooky and if this happened when off the lead, she could so easily take off.   So she really doesn't get as much free running as I would like for her - only if she's somewhere I know is fully enclosed.

> Flexi leads?   HATE 'EM!!   For starters, how often have I seen people with their dog on one of these, on a pavement with it fully extended.   If only they realised that if the dog suddenly dived sideways for some reason, he could be half-way across the road. 

That's not the fault of the lead, it's a fault at the human end of it :) . 

My present youngster has a long-line - he likes to grab it partway along (and carry it with such a proud expression on his face), tie himself up in it, rag it, anything but let it trail behind him. He's excellent at putting knots in it.

I use them when walking the country lanes. My Berns have learnt how to walk on them without danger to anyone. They give them some freedom but make it easy for me to get them in close if I need to. Its all about how you use these things.
Aileen

> Its all about how you use these things

A bad workman always blames his tools ........ :) :) :)

Thank you all for the extra input.

Hmmm...where to start? He is 10 months old, think I mentioned that Lol...he is typical of his breed, large, his head comes up to my waist and I'm average height for a woman, very excitable, clumsy, bouncy and easily distracted right now. He walks fairly well on his short leather lead. I also use a dogmatic head collar on him as he pulls like a train. I have used the dogmatics successfully with my other two, until they were older and a bit less reactive. It gives me a bit more control in public places and beside roads. When we go out walking around here, we have to walk along narrow lanes where one car fills the width. He is trained to go into the verge and sit behind me when a car or horse comes by.

When he is on his long line, the biggest problem is getting it caught up around his and my legs. Although he is bouncy and easily distracted, he never ever goes right to the end limit of the long line. I wouldn't allow it as 50ft ahead is a long way from me but he naturally checks in with me, either of his own accord or because I call him back. He will go a certain distance and then spin round and come back. We are still training but I also want him to have fun and freedom, doing it this way, he doesn't realise that he is actually learning. I use distraction techniques with him like calling and when he comes back, either treating or playing with his tugger ball. There are occasionally other dogs on our isolated training walks, lots of sheep, horses, pheasants, rabbits and the odd deer. We also sometimes walk past a small holding that has chickens, ducks and geese, so as you can see, I can't have him off lead, he would have a field day.

I really don't like the long line as I seem to be forever winding it up and then letting it out and then stopping him to untangle him and so it goes on. What should take us 45 minutes on a walk ends up often taking twice the amount of time as we are forever stopping to untangle. He also likes to walk with some of the lead in his mouth with a very proud expression on his face. Lol...still unsure. I think that I will cut my present long line down to half the length and see how we go.

Thanks again everyone :-)

One of our trainers suggests the flexi is fine if you keep it regular length while walking and she stresses that be so when the dog is not yet trained.  If you want to give the pooch some more room to roam around she says sit down on a bench.  For me I guess that would a rock or a fallen tree stump.  :)  Let pooch roam, be watchful of other people he could hurt with it, and tangling obstacles.  But she does not endorse walking with it.  She does not like to see the dog ever get the idea he can go so far away from you while actually walking with you.

I find a flexi wonderful for my elderly dog who doesn't see or hear very well now and tends think he's lost when he's really quite close to us and panics. It means he can potter about in the fields but, not get in a tangle and stays calm because he's in contact.

> I really don't like the long line as I seem to be forever winding it up and then letting it out and then stopping him to untangle him and so it goes on

Yes I dislike them for the same reason.  You could try a flexi - in a controlled environment first for practise and training - and see how you (and he) get on with it.  As I and others have said it's very much down to how you use them and I think it is well worth you giving one a go.

A tip though - unless I had a dog heading toward a dangerous situation - I would drop the flexi rather than allow a heavy dog to run to the end of it.  I have dropped mine on a few occasions (more by accident than design) and the feel of the heavy handle dragging on the ground and getting caught up for a brief second in brambles etc seems to slow a running dog down very well.  Using the brake correctly - half depressed to make a noise - will also indicate to your dog that he is nearing the end of the line.  It's very easy to train a dog to use this type of 'management lead' very well.

Using the brake correctly - half depressed to make a noise

This is so true. Mine know the noise and so know immediately if they are going to far. They are very quick to learn. They also know just how long the flexi is and will jog until just before the end then stop. It gives me the ability to walk at a constant pace while dogs stop for a moment to have a sniff without having to keep stopping. Flexi walks are for dawdling around lanes. They give me control but with flexibility for the girls to stop and start without me forever chivvying them on, or standing still every 30 secs...
Aileen

Mine have learned to slow dawn at the call of 'Steady!"

Thank you dab, very helpful ;-)

He slows down when I say "nicely", actually for his age and breed he is very good and he also came with the optional brain, although this can have its downsides. Lol. Not had a Briard that is quite so quick at learning as him.

Trying a flexi in a controlled environment is a very good idea. The only downside would be shelling out on the cost of it and it not suiting us. I could always sell it if that is the case.

I will remember to drop the handle if/when the situation arises. This is why I will practice with him somewhere that is safe and get him used to the feel and sound of it, then progress on, after a few days to an isolated area where there is likely to be nothing too taxing, lol.  Worst case scenario, we can go back to the cut down long line.

The problem with retractable leads is that the lead is always in tension when extended & this encourages the dog to pull against it, they are OK for trained dogs that don't pull if where they are exercised isn't safe to give them more freedom, but for untrained or partially trained dogs for me they are a big no no

A bad workman always blames his tools .

IF this was directed at me - not at all.   For me it's perfectly simple - if you want/need to contain your dog with the use of A LEAD, then use a proper lead - no longer than 6 foot.   If you want the dog to have 'freedom', then train the dog for a solid recall, or exercise him off lead in a safely contained area.    What the heck did people do with their dogs before things like the wretched Flexi-lead I wonder!!   If your dog is blind or hard of hearing, then use a lead   I've had both, and done just that.

>If your dog is blind or hard of hearing, then use a lead

I can't run fast enough for a short lead to give him the exercise he still needs, even at the age of nearly 15. The flexi gives him the opportunity for a canter when he wants, not when I decide. After all, walks are for the dogs' benefit, not mine!

I bought an extending lead for my latest rescue (50 kg bitch) because I wasn't sure how she would be to start with when taken up the field etc. and didn't want to restrict her too much. Well it turned out that she wants to be right beside me all the time we are out so just gets tangled in it if I let it out, plus she hates going for walks so just concentrates on going back home when we are out! I bought the biggest I could find, tape type, but didn't really need it so just use it on lock all the time now.

I find that I can control an 8m flexi well, much better than a long line. 

My naughty Jozi was/is perfect on a Flexi, did not try to hit the end of it, walked the right way around obstacles when told etc. 

Off lead she could on occasion stick two fingers up, as she knew she is free, and could, on the Flexi she came back each time, stopped, went around etc etc.

My friend who used the giant with a reactive large male dobe, but he was trained to respond on it and again not to rush about on it.

I'd say attaching the handle to a belt with a bungee strap would be better than a wrist loop, as it torn out of your hand it could damage your wrist.

>  didn't really need it so just use it on lock all the time now

I never really use 'lock'. I find that it is not safe to use lock when the lead is extended - the lead should never be slack, the minute it starts to slack you should be winding it in. If the lead is not extended when you lock it, then you should be using a normal lead ????

> What the heck did people do with their dogs before things like the wretched Flexi-lead I wonder!

That's a bit like saying - 'what did people do before the car was invented' :)

I've had several reasons for using a flexilead with my younger dog and it has enhanced her life while recovering from a bad injury and enabled us to use a local beauty spot which my very old dog loves, while preventing the younger dog from possibly herding the wild ponies. I've never had a problem with the flexilead as I make sure that it is used carefully and appropriately.

Mmm  I can see that with an older, steady dog, a flexi could be useful and even safe.   However, even an older Bedlington still has the capacity to suddenly take off  - I like the expression 'spook',  sounds very like what they do.    It's usually when they've smelled something, a rat mostly or a bunny if country walking.   They can be perfectly behaved one second, and mostly they are, but the next second, they can be off and completely deaf!    It's been described to me as a 'switch being flicked in their brain'  and it certainly looks like this too.

Sheep don't interest them,  they'll look but listen when called to me, and of course I'm ahead of the game with spotting animals they could chase.   Ponies the same,  but those small furries seem too irresistable :-(    And they are fast too.  The smallest one has beaten larger Bedlington lurchers and coursing whippets with ease in 'terrier races'  !   She's nicknamed 'the Pocket Rocket'  :-)

So personally, I would never use one.   But if I had a more sedate breed, I might change my mind   :-)

> The problem with retractable leads is that the lead is always in tension when extended & this encourages the dog to pull against it, they are OK for trained dogs that don't pull if where they are exercised isn't safe to give them more freedom, but for untrained or partially trained dogs for me they are a big no no

Actually, taking on board what Tomee has said, this makes sense to me. He does still pull on the lead, although not all of the time, because he is young, excitable and has not yet learnt a level of self control where we are both comfortable.

I am not yet happy with giving him total free rein when teaching recall. I value him greatly and will not take the risk of letting him off, even in the rural setting where we live. There are far too many temptations and risks for it to be sensible. He is a herding breed and has a high drive for rounding everything and everyone up, not good when we are surrounded by sheep me thinks. After all, this is what he was bred to do and he comes from a working back ground. We have to start somewhere and allowing freedom but still having a relative amount of control using a long line makes sense to me. Both for his and others safety.

I will go with my long line and just learn to control the line, it will be better when it is shorter. It trails behind him most of the time, he has never got to the end of it and there are no risks with him bolting off and having his neck and shoulders snapped back. It is more likely that I would be the one to hit the ground if this should ever happen. His safety is paramount. :-)

I use an extendable lead with my girl when I taking her somewhere I can let her off lead but can't if there is people around. My friend had a long line for her dogs and when I used it with her dogs it was such a pain, the dogs would get tangled and it would wrap around there legs and they would fall over, then trying to reel it I would end up with a knotted mess. Also if the grass was wet so was the lead that I then had to carry. Because of that I decided to go with the extendable lead and I normaly use it with a harness to no risk to her neck. I just find it easyer for me to work with so I can stay more relaxed which helps her.

I know just what you mean with the long line Jo.

Well today, I have cut my line down to half the length which makes it 25 ft. I took him for one of our long walks along an old railway track that is surrounded by fields, sheep, pheasants etc. It was definitely better but we don't ever seem to get anywhere quickly as I am still constantly unravelling and then collecting the lead up depending upon where he is walking. He tends to zig zag, depending on where his nose takes him.

I will just have to suffer it for the moment until his recall is reliable enough. At some stage I will have to try him without his lead but know from experience that my breed are at least 2 before they can be a bit more sensible and actually start to listen to EVERYTHING that they are asked.

I ended up using an guy line like you get on tents; thin and light and bright coloured, not the best for hanging on to at speed - rope burns - but not so bad for knotting or holding water and very cheap to cut up and the like.