My sister lost her boxer bitch to lymphoma over 18 months ago and feels it's the right time to get another.
She has been looking for breeders, but I'm worried my advice has fallen on deaf ears, or not been heard due to being blinded (or deafened!) by the excitement of a new pup.
Shes found a breeder local to her, they have a big rite up on their fancy website about how many top dogs they produce, but I have my reservations and wondered if anybody could offer some advice, I'm worried the kennels she's found is a puppy farmer as it all looks a bit 'sales pitchey' to me :( (I won't name it on the open forum as I don't want to be marring somebodys reputation if I've jumped to the wrong conclusion)

Another question, re health test results.

Said kennels has a list of stud dogs they have, all with their heart tests (eg. Heart Tested Clear, Grade 1), but when using the kennel clubs health test result checker, the dogs are showing as having NO results logged.
Should these results be in the KC health checker or is that dependant on other factors??

Why not check out the breeder with the Boxer breed clubs ?

If this website is a puppy farmer, they should know, if it's for real, they would also know, you can't be a 'Top Winning kennel' without other breeders knowing about you  ;-)

If the website states involvement in breed clubs, that would give you a way of narrowing down which breed clubs to check with.

If you google the dogs named, you should be able to find their show results.  You can also look for thier dogs winning at shows via Fosse Data and Higham Press :-)     Both the dog and the owner/breeder  will be named in results.  

>Should these results be in the KC health checker or is that dependant on other factors??

KC don't list all health test results but you may find what you are looking for HERE - Boxer Breed Council

Thanks Dill, will go a do some more investigating :)

Great, thanks for the link Admin :)

Should these results be in the KC health checker or is that dependant on other factors?? confused

Under the ABS, Boxers have no REQUIRED health tests. (That I think is bad. Surely at the very LEAST hips should be required for a large heavy breed.) But heart and hips are listed as a breed club recommendations. Now my second breed Papillon also have no requirements but have eyes and patellas listed as breed club recommendations. Obviously I test mine. And none of those results gets published by the KC because they are not part of an official scheme. So I would assume Boxer is the same, nothing published.

Tooolz would be the person to ask about the breed.

> Why not check out the breeder with the Boxer breed clubs ?

Hmmmm, interesting, it appears the breeder is actually involved with the running of a one of the breed clubs. I'm starting to think that my gut instinct is broken, maybe all that glitters IS gold afteral!

LOL, the more I dig about, the more confused I get!!

I'll keep rummaging around and see what I can find, I think even if I did find something 'off' I wouldn't be able to sway my sister away from this breeder anyway, so hopefully they are as fab as they seem to appear :) All appeared a little too glossy and sparkly to me, but I am rather a cynical bag!!

Hearts tested for AORTIC STENOSIS at the very least, this should be noted for each breeding dog.
Boxer Cardiomyopathy is a real scourge but no conclusive test to totally exclude carriers of each form.
Kidney problems have become recognised as a breed problem.
Any breeder should at least  acknowledge the problems in the breed and should be following Breed guidelines.
(Auscultation of hearts is not registered on the KC database, breeders need to be asked for certification.)

> But heart and hips are listed as a breed club recommendations

Looking about quickly today, I've found several breeders heart testing, but none doing any hip tests :(

Sis lives with dad so I've tried talking to him to see if he can get my sister to listen. I've been trying to make them see how important health tests are, their argument was that there are no health guarantees anyway :( I finally got my dad to see that you're better off not lining the pockets of people who are churning out puppies for money and instead have their money go towards a breeder that is trying to breed for health for the good of the breed, not profit and that surely it's better to do all one can in sourcing a pup that has the LEAST chance of ending up with health problems etc.....

I'm actually quite worn out from my 2 hour debate this morning, but have made a tiny bit of headway with it!

Thanks tooolz, that's a great help.

Hip scoring is (for whatever reason) not common place in boxers.
It may be counter productive to focus on a condition that the majority of breeders consider lower on their list of priorities.
I used to hip score in the 80s and all were below breed average, trouble came when selecting a mate using Hips as a high requirement, other things needed to be compromised to obtain this.
I gave up scoring and in 3 decades never had a diagnosed hip problem in any puppy bred. Same cannot be said for BCM.

This is just what I've been told by other people, but my understanding is that the general consensus in the Boxer community is that they do not have a hip problem and hip scoring is unnecessary. However, I have also heard that submitting bad hip scores is highly frowned upon so some people who do have their dogs hip scored because of suspected hip problems do not submit them in order to avoid repercussions. Most large breeds are at risk of hip problems, though how much of that is environmental has yet to be determined so it could come down to being smart about how you raise your puppy.

Based what I've been told by a couple of friends who breed Boxers in the States, I wouldn't buy one unless both parents had hips, elbows, heart, thyroid and eyes tested. You could probably get a lovely, healthy puppy from a litter without the wide range of health testing but is it really worth the risk?

Well ....in the UK ( and this is where this puppy is likely to be sourced) to find a puppy who's parents are hip, elbows, heart, thyroid and eye tested would be like looking for the proverbial needle .....

Boxer Cardiomyopathy is a real scourge

Really? someone on here also said UK Dobes are rife with it as well, are many UK breeds predispsed to CM?
.

Well ....in the UK ( and this is where this puppy is likely to be sourced) to find a puppy who's parents are hip, elbows, heart, thyroid and eye tested would be like looking for the proverbial needle .....

Excellent post, says it all really!

Mastifflover - I think you need to try & persuade your sis to buy from europe where all working breeds are health tested under the breed registration clubs mandatory breeding test rules

Below is the link to the German Boxer clubs mandatory breeding requirements, including the mandatory health tests, & the second link gives most Boxer clubs in Europe & some other places.

German Boxer Club:

Especially read

a)  "Breeding Qualification"
and
b)   "Requirements For Breeding"

http://bit.ly/1iBbjrg

Links to European & other countries Boxer Clubs
http://www.belire.co.uk/links.htm
.

Boxer heart tests or those that are scored with clear grades are on the Boxer Breed Councils
website (Link in Admin's post above) - The reason that these tests don't appear on the KC website is because the heart testing scheme isn't one
that is recognised by the KC (it was started in the early 90's by the Breed Council on recommendation by the then breed genetics advisor Dr Bruce Cattanach in conjunction with vet cardiologists) - I believe that there was investigation to see if this could be KC 'recognised' but not sure
if that is still on going.

This list is for dogs that either score 0 or 1 or D which are cleared by Doppler.
The list is sorted by gender and then the Alpha by the dogs KC registered name,
Dog's not on the list are either not scored with a clear grade or the owner hasn't agreed to submit the scores
to the Boxer breed council website (in this case I would be wanting to see the Heart testing paperwork to prove the dog had been scored)

Thanks everyone for your replies, you've all been a great help :)