I know this sounds like a strange question, but bear with me. My previous litter (my first and also my bitch's first, but I did have a vet nurse mentor) arrived quite quickly and we had between 10 minutes and just under an hour between pups until we had seven. During that time she was panting, bit restless etc between pups as you might expect. Everything was text book and for that I was grateful.  After the 7th pup was born, she really settled down to feeding them all, quite relaxed, had a snooze, went out for a wee (and tried to jump a four foot fence!) and wanted something to eat and drink and all was calm. I felt her belly and it was all soft and loose with no obvious puppy lumps left.  I was cooking tea some four hours later, my son was sitting next to the whelping box behind me watching the pups suckle and just making sure that everything was going well whilst I was quickly shoving something in the oven.  He then said that she was having a contraction, which I put down to the fact that 7 pups were suckling hard and it was post birth contractions of her womb because of the hormones released when suckling. However she very swiftly produced another pup who came out bellowing his lungs out and the same size as all the others! We literally just had enough time to pop the other pups quickly into the warm box. This was four hours after all the others had been born. Obviously things could have been very different and we could have been dealing with a dead pup or a retained one.

So how do you know when they have finished? Her next litter is due next Saturday and I don't want to be in the worrying situation of not knowing if intervention is needed. I just have this fear that she will 'look' like she has finished but there is a pup still inside her maybe in trouble.

BTW the pup that came out last was named Walter 'as in where's Wally' by his new owners due to his late arrival lol.They even made him a red and white knitted jumper for when he was being carried about (socialisation before vaccinations) as he was a December pup.

Simple answer is you don't ....for all the reason you gave.

Settling down, relaxed, feeling empty are pretty good indications but not fool proof.
A stethoscope helps to locate a live one in there but short of an X-ray there is only wait and see.

I've been caught out more than once!

This is the reason that I did consider having an x-ray to confirm the number of pups so that I would know when all the pups were born.

In the end after talking to my Vet I decided against the x-ray.

After our last pup was born my bitch completely changed, as if she had come out of a trance.  I don't know how long it takes for a retained pup to make the bitch ill, I suppose this is why a lot of people get their Vets to check their bitch and pups the day after whelping.

Good luck x

I know someone who used my boy and wasn't inexperienced at having litters, but  her bitch gave birth to one more pup nearly 24 hours later !! The pup was alive.

Goodness me that is a big delay!

Well after consultation with my vet nurse mentor who is brilliant and also my vet at the local vet hospital, we decided to X ray tonight. No sedation obviously and she just laid there as calm as anything as she doesnt mind the vets at all. We could see 6 perfect little skeletons all without obvious cause for concern so all we have to do is wait until Saturday now. Being only my second litter and just wanting to make sure that I could be alerted to any potential issues early, I felt that the knowledge of how many there were for the safety for my girl was my main concern. She was well away from all the other pets etc as we went in a completely different entrance to normal and as the vets also compete in flyball the same as us, we know them all well.

> I don't know how long it takes for a retained pup to make the bitch ill, I suppose this is why a lot of people get their Vets to check their bitch and pups the day after whelping.

Not trying to put a dampener on things but a lot of novices take the vet word as gospel, and not all vets are really used to breeding.  They are not always right.

I had a bitch give birth to one puppy at home.  No further contractions, so I dashed off to the veterinary hospital, asking for an oxytocin jab.  She eventually gave birth to a second pup.  After 40 minutes I asked for a second jab.  A 3rd pup was born.  I checked my bitch over and said that there was another pup to come.  The vet examined her and told me that it wasn't a pup, it was the spleen.  I examined her again and once more said there is another pup.  He checked her again and told me it was definitely the spleen.  We could have argued all night, so I insisted on a scan.

This was out of hours, so rather than ask him to get a nurse, I asked if we could do it with me holding the bitch. As soon as I saw the heartbeat I asked for a section before the pup died.  He delivered one live puppy.  So please go with your instincts.

My first litter, the bitch would not feed them, infact it was worse as she looked like she would kill them if she had a chance. My mentor did not suggest and did not herself see the vet after birth. We started hand rearing them. 24 hours later she had a live pup which she started feeding then turned on that one as well. Needless to say this was her one and only litter.
I have learned so much in the interim and always have the bitch checked out by my vet now.

So much about whelping is 'gut feeling'....a phenomenon which is honed from experience.
Difficult to 'know' when to step in, to know when a whelping is going off track, to know when you need a vet.
A mentor is invaluable while you build up that experience and learn to have the confidence in your own instincts.
I need a vet for drugs, surgery and x-ray. Otherwise she asks me.

Just because they settle down doesn't necessarily mean that's it - in fact we had a litter, whelped all through the night with us at the vet's office (she needed a shot to get each puppy out!!).   The vet, who lived above the practice, came down the next morning, checked her out (and the puppies) and said that was it - she'd had enough shots so he didn't want to give her another.   We came home, I went to the loo leaving hubby in charge - he yelled saying she was contracting, and yes, another puppy arrived ..... the only one she really produced unaided.   She was clearly right in the birth canal, but out of finger reach, or palpating reach (Bassets eh).   So he'd missed her.   He was as shocked as we were when I rang to tell him!!

I suggest that if you think she's finished, you take her in, with the puppies, for an examination and if necessary, a shot to clear out anything still in there.   It is a gut instinct indeed.

I had a pup born 6 hours after the others once -he was huge but thankfully alive and well. Funniest memory though was with a queen. She had 4 red kittens and a cream, then finished and settled down to feed them etc. I went to bed a few hours later and in the morning checked on them, all fine, and took some photos. When I transferred the photos to my computer I suddenly noticed there weren't 4 red kittens in the photos, there were FIVE plus the cream. So number six had arrived during the night and I'd never noticed, there wasn't even any signs of blood or anything and I'd slept in the same room.

heyyy something similar happened to me, it was my bitches first litter also and we had a scan done and were told 3 pups but could be a couple hiding... she had 4 and stopped, she fed her pups, went out for a wee, came in, had some food, then i cleaned up all the mess from where had gave birth and she went into the warm box with her pups and was feeding them and whatnot.... she then got up and began walking around and hunching her back up like a cat. i knew there was a couple of missing placentas so i followed her around the room with my tea towel lol and out popped the 5th and final pup!! so the thing is you dont really know for sure, we went to see the vet in the morning to get out the placentas and he had a feel but said you never came be 100% without a scan or wait it out, i opted for a quick scan and there was no more.

Well it was 'd' day today and to be honest having had an x ray in the week was incredibly reassuring. Between pup four and five we had a two and half hour delay then just under an hour of pushing (I had rung my amazing vet when we had got to two hours between pups and he gave up the hour pushing time). However knowing we had two pups to go meant that informed decisions could be made. All arrived happy, healthy and although not completely text book due to a badly bleeding cord and a malpresentation, we have 6 evenly sized contented feeding pups. :)

Great outcome!
I have to agree, despite hardly ever scanning for numbers usually, I did really enjoy knowing I had 6 pups to come.

Fantastic news - well it wouldn't have been complete if there wasn't a minor drama!  However like you say, you could make decisions based on all the information you had.  Congratulations and enjoy your pups :)

I agree! I think that in the first litter which was completely text book, my girl had only read the Book of the Bitch for the 'normal' delivery section. This time around I think she had read the 'potential issues' chapter too lol We had a single foot first (other foot flexed), no sack, true breech, bleeding cord, long delay and nearly an hour pushing as well. Im just about ready for a sleep, well as much as you can on a camp bed in the kitchen.

>Im just about ready for a sleep, well as much as you can on a camp bed in the kitchen.

You really know how to live don't you!!!!   :-)

I have no inention of breeding and admire those of ou who , thank goodness do. It struck me as I was reading the op post ,the short list of things that could cause a drama and it wasn't a full list should be read by all those who think" oh wouldn't it be nice for her to have puppies" and other such reasons.
Maybe we need to create a post for exactly the bad side of breeding from the point of harm to bitch or pups

>Maybe we need to create a post for exactly the bad side of breeding from the point of harm to bitch or pups

Good idea :)

Fortunately I am friends with quite a few people who whelp the guide dog pups in their own homes so have their vast experience, as well as several long established gun dog people who are have bred several generations of the same line, the stud dog owner has been fantastic and is very well known in the field, I have a vet hospital less than 3 mins away with a very good vet nurse friend and many books and videos of complicated whelpings. So even though this was only my second ever litter I had lots of support from breed specific people so I was as prepared as I could be.

A similar thing happened to me and my girl, it was her and mine first litter she was scanned and we were told 7 but could be 8! She started at midnight had 7 but one was still born so by 6am she was settled and feeding them my friend who was with me shot off to get some sleep at 1030 she had another pup with no signs at all just so happened a pup had got under her back leg I moved it and saw the pup that had just been born. She went on to have 3 more so 11 in total quite a surprise!