singleton Rottweiler puppy at 7 weeks has had vet check and only one ball has dropped...

any views on this ?? whats the chances it WILL drop? don't plan on breeding from him but ive googled this and all im seeing is cancer risks I cant go through that again

I think the cancer risks are rather exaggerated to be honest -presumably if you kept a dog with just one testicle you'd have him neutered at age 2 or so, and that should pose no problems at all. One I bred (the only one I've had in the breed to only have one descended testicle) was not neutered until gone 3. He's 8 now and fit as a fiddle. I've had two of my other breed, they were neutered earlier as smaller breed.

There are plenty of chances for one testicle to still appear after 7 weeks though. Personally I would not keep such a pup as for showing/potentially breeding it matters so much and out of the pups and kittens I have had over the years, my personal experience of my lines taught me if they are not there at 8 weeks, they won't appear at all -and I also would not want to keep a late developer if one dropped later as I don't want to breed more of the same. But as a PET it would be entirely different.

thanks although I kinda did want to run him on :-/

arrrhhhh soo flaming frustrating

I think the cancer risks are rather exaggerated to be honest

I agree.  :)  Sure testicles are designed to be held outside the body and the increased heat inside may well increase the risk of cancer, but in the parlour I had at least 18 monorchid males who were all happy, healthy and over 12 years old.  :)

but I cant show him....so i just have to hope by 6 months its present....
at least he'll be healthy...just really was lookin forward to getting a pup bk out on the move

> in the parlour I had at least 18 monorchid males

Was there much room to sit down? :-P

pmsl ....> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Was there much room to sit down? :-p

Am I right in hearing its hereditary?

Yes it is hereditary, but needs to be carried by both parents.

>all im seeing is cancer risks

Another one here that thinks this is what vets make a big deal of, just to get pet owners to be responsible and have their dogs castrated.  I've only got my Border Collie done because he had one testicle retained in the inguinal canal.  I wish now that I had asked for the descended testicle to be left alone.  My previous Border Collies were never done.  I had one dog castrated in 1981, a Toy Poodle, and that is all in 40 years of dogs.  I have never had a male with cancer, and have had more boys just because I find them more affectionate.  I currently have 4 entire males.  So why have I never had one with testicle cancer?  I asked this question years ago and I clearly remember West Coast saying that it wasn't as common as we are lead to believe.

If your boy has one descended, ask them to leave that one alone.  :-)

While it may drop id not touch any male with only one descended, if it doesn't drop you will need to look into castration.

Have you decided on another Rott then? If you plan to show I'd not even consider any male like this regardless of breed..

>If you plan to show I'd not even consider any male like this regardless of breed..

but at only 7 weeks!! Surely a couple more weeks may see them appear (talking up to 12 weeks here not months).

I can never feel two with my pups, just don't have the knack, can feel something but can't distinguish one from two.

Fortunately hubby and a doggy friend are good at finding them.

Hi
One of my boys had this, I got some homeopathic tablets - I can't remember which or even if they helped.  But, every morning I would give a gentle tug on the undescended one that I could just feel, I did this several times and eventually, a few weeks later it did come down.
No idea if it was me or the tablets but we seemed to have a very strong bond after that!

7 weeks is too soon to panic!!!    With our male puppies, both would be down by 10 weeks, but it has been known for a 6 month puppy to start in the ring, only to have the vet find one, or none where they should be.   They can pull them up!!!    As for leaving retained testicles alone - that's the owners decision BUT testicles should be outside the body or they overheat leading to a RISK, not a certainty, of cancer developing.   Is it worth the risk?

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/reproductive/c_multi_cryptorchidism

Note the final sentence - should be castrated by 4 years.

>Yes it is hereditary, but needs to be carried by both parents.<

Really  thought the gene for the sex charactaristics are carried on the X chromosome, which in a male only comes from the mother

"Other Modes of Inheritance.
There are various modes of inheritance other than the above, and the more frequently encountered are:

(a) X-linked

Sex is determined via a pair of chromosomes called the sex chromosomes. All other chromosomes are known as autosomes, and each one of an autosomal pair has the same complement of genes. The sex chromosomes are of two different types known as X, the female chromosome, and Y, the male chromosome. The Y chromosome is much smaller than the X and contains little genetic material. A male has one Y and one X, whereas a female has two X chromosomes.

Sex of an offspring is determined by the sire passing on either an X or a Y chromosome: the dam passes on either one of her X chromosomes to each offspring. As well as the obvious sex characteristics inherited via the sex chromosomes there are other factors inherited on the X chromosome, including certain hereditary diseases, and these are said to be sex-linked or more correctly X-linked."

From here

If it was carried on the sex chromosomes, only the male implicated then it would be carried on the Y chromosome, if it has to be both parents passing the trait then it has to be on the x chromosome, but of course it could be on x chromosome and carried by just one parent as both will pass on an x chromosome to their offspring.

This article http://www.avalonkennels.net/canine%20chriptorquidism.htm explains things quite well.

Genetic research has shown the likelihood of cryptorchidism to be inherited as a single autosomal recessive gene and to be sex-limited.  Autosomal refers to a chromosome other than "X" and "Y" (which are the ones determining sex, i.e., XX= female, XY= male).  Recessive means that for the trait to express itself it has to be inherited in "double dose", one from the sire and one from the dam. If only one parent passes the trait to the puppy, it will be a "carrier" but the dominant counterpart (inherited from the other parent) will prevail, and the dog will appear as normal. Sex-limited means that if the proper genetic make up happens in a male, the trait will be expressed. That is, the dog will be a cryptorchid. But, the same genetic make up in a female will cause no abnormalities. In other words, only males will show the expression of this genetic make up.

These considerations are of significant relevance because they shine the spotlight on the female just as much as the male due to their ability to be "carriers" of the trait.  This also suggests that there can be skipping of generations (sometimes several) before the trait shows up again, and also explains why breeding with apparently normal dogs for several generations still proved ineffective at eliminating the trait.

Some books on canine genetics suggest a polygenic inheritance, but current thought strongly challenges this conclusion, leaning instead toward the single autosomal recessive theory for most breeds. The prevalence of cryptorchidism is believed to vary widely - from .8% up to 67% in male dogs- depending on breed and study. 

Toys, or breeds where miniaturization has occurred, seem to show the trait more often that their larger counterparts. For example, Toy Poodles may produce a higher percentage of cryptorchids than Miniature Poodles, and Miniatures may produce a higher percentage than the Standards. 

Boxers have been reported to have the highest risk for all large breeds studied. A very interesting study tries to correlate cryptorchidism with other inheritable defects, especially patellar subluxation and hip displaysia.  We should keep our attention toward the further studies of this theory. 

The cryptorchid dog should be neutered because the retained abdominal testicle may be a site for future tumoral growth or testicular torsion.  The chance for tumors may be 10 times higher on retained testicles than on normally descended testicles. It is also wise to remember that if left intact, monocryptorchid dogs will possess the ability to breed, and in light of the likelihood of a recessive trait, all offspring will be at best carriers.  The neutering of cryptorchid males that otherwise would have been show/breeding potential should be done after 6 months of age to give consideration to the exception for delayed descent in some lines, but an attempt should be made to correlate late descent with an increased incidence of cryptorchidism.

References:                                             . 1. Cox, VS: Cryptorchidism in the Dog 2. Cox VS, Wallace LJ, Jessen CR: An anatomic and genetic study of canine cryptorchidism 3. Baumans V, Dijkstra G, Wensing CJB: Testicular descent in the dog 4. Ashdown RR: The diagnosis of cryptorchidism in young dogs, a review of the problem    

> Note the final sentence - should be castrated by 4 years.

why? I can understand the removal of the retained one but have never understood the pressure to remove the normal one. In fact back in the early 90s when I got a rescue GSD with only one I asked the vet to just remove the retained one. The dog lived a normal healthy life until he was 13.

why? I can understand the removal of the retained one but have never understood the pressure to remove the normal one. In fact back in the early 90s when I got a rescue GSD with only one I asked the vet to just remove the retained one. The dog lived a normal healthy life until he was 13.

If the dog is having the retained testicle removed, why not take them both under the same g/a?    Bearing in mind this is hereditary and a dog with one remaining testicle in the right place, could, given the opportunity, mate and pass this on.   If your dog is being properly confined, so this can't happen, fair enough - leave it.   But who knows whether the remaining one might need to be taken, eventually?  Personally I'd rather have both removed, and be done with.

Personally I'd rather have both removed, and be done with.

Agree. The one is of no use anyway -you can't show, you shouldn't breed, and unless the dog has behavioural problems where the testosterone might HELP, no reason to not remove both.

In cats we are not allowed to register kittens unless we have a vet certificate for the stud saying he has two normal testicles.

I'd not take the pup if I'd not bred it myself, I'd consider waiting if the breeder would run it on for that time at their expense only. If you plan on showing and take the pup now and they don't descend then what? Can't show so then what? Another puppy in the house and no chance of doing an activity you wish to peruse.
For me it's not worth it and I wouldn't rehome after taking on a dog knowing this problem..

My first 'show' dog only had one descended testicle.  Bizarrely he did ok at shows (including champ shows) :-o

I waited and waited and waited for it to drop.  It didn't ever drop fully and he was neutered at 3.5 years old.  At this age, there were no cancerous changes in the undescended testicle.

Getting this dog was one of the very best things I have ever done and I am SO glad he chose me... So yes, avoid if you want to breed and if showing is the 'be all and end all', but I am very glad I didn't listen to people who advised me to return my puppy because he is the greatest pet and companion.  I just thought I'd step in to defend the cryptorchids  hehehehe :-)

For me it's not worth it and I wouldn't rehome after taking on a dog knowing this problem..

Agree 100 %.

> Agree. The one is of no use anyway

It will still supply the body with testosterone which will help the dog maintain body condition and muscle tone. It will make the dog less likely to gain weight and in many breeds it will keep the coat in good condition. As a groomer I an fed up of seeing neutered dog after neutered dog with soft coats that shed constantly when leaving them entire would largely prevent it. In spite of what vets say neutering makes it much more likely to put weight on. In this day and age when the vast majority of pet dogs are kept safely in gardens and walked rather than let out to roam the streets they are very unlikely to meet bitches to mate therefore the argument about preventing over breeding does not apply.

I had a lovely little mini LH dachshund today. 11 months old already neutered. The owners asked why his coat had started growing through so softy and fuzzy. They thought it was puppy coat and were unhappy when told that it was more likely the result of the neutering.

I spoke to a rough collie owner today too. Their dog had a huge coat and it was a nightmare because they couldn't brush it. They had had 3 before him and all had had nice easy to manage coats. When asked it turns out this was the first one they had neutered.

These owners only neuter their pets because the vets tell them it needs to be done and they want to be good owners. I hate the way vets are pushing castration on every dog when in  most cases it is not necessary. They wont dock or remove dew claws now but happily perform a major operation to remove a very important organ which will adversley effect the rest of the dogs life. :(

>The one is of no use anyway

It will help to keep the dog looking like a dog and not go leggy and 'bitchy'. His metabolism will stay the same so he'll be less prone to weight gain. He'll have all the health benefits of entirety and none of the issues associated with neutering.

As a groomer I an fed up of seeing neutered dog after neutered dog with soft coats that shed constantly when leaving them entire would largely prevent it.

Absolutely!  Neutering to me is for medical reasons or if the owner can't keep the dog/bitch under control when bitches are in season.

A friend took on a lovely Affenpinscher about 5 years ago - he was a show prospect but was a monorchid.  Her Vet frightened her into having the retained one removed and he was OK apart from problems with adhesions afterwards.  :( 
But he then told her that it would be better for him to have the normal one removed and against my advice she did.  12 months later, even with her being vigilant, he is permanently hungry and his weight has increased by 50% and he's now built like a tank - her husband can't ignore his constant begging! 
And his coat!  I see him every 4 weeks to stop him looking like a ball of candyfloss when he was handstripped every 8 weeks before, was a smart tidy dog and a good representative of his breed.  I don't think that they have done the dog any favours - he was definitely happier before.  :(

And to neuter a double coated dog/bitch like a Rough Collie makes their coat difficult for a breeder to cope with and impossible for a pet owner !  :(

>  But, every morning I would give a gentle tug on the undescended one that I could just feel, I did this several times and eventually, a few weeks later it did come down.>No idea if it was me or the tablets but we seemed to have a very strong bond after that!

Gentle tug?     

Highly unlikely that it was you!!!!  Any experienced dog breeder will explain that messing around in that area is guaranteed to make a male hold them up even further. 

I've also seen the awful mess made of males that have been neutered.  

A male Sheltie with a lovely coat neutered at 1 year old and the coat became unmanageable,  rather than shedding twice a year, it never dropped.  Can you imagine a small Sheltie with such a huge coat?    He was like a walking haystack.   Even when it was thinned out it seemed to grow back so quickly!   And of course his weight became a big problem too.   Poor mite was fed very carefully, yet still became a pudding, which put a huge strain on his little legs.

Same story for my friend's Cocker neutered at 2 years,  but in addition to weight problems and coat problems, he also went from a well socialised friendly boy who enjoyed meeting other dogs and had several regular walking/romping buddies, to a grumpy unsociable dog who would avoid other dogs at all times.  

I also find it astonishing that vets will happily perform major invasive surgery that leaves a dog or bitch worse off in years to come, yet has a problem taking off dew claws .   However I doubt there's much money in dew claw removal :-(

Yes it was just a gentle tug, I didn't manhandle him.  My "experienced breeder" who we got him from gave me that advice - in the end it did come down.

How do you put smilies on here because re the 'gentle tug', I can think of a few that would be appropriate!!    I doubt it was you - I've seen puppies in the ring at 6 months pull them back up the moment the judge went to check back there

Incidentally isn't it possible to show castrated males these days - not that many would place over an entire dog of equal quality.   I showed my spayed bitches, with permission to show from the KC, but with spaying, it's not quite so obvious!!!

Not replying to anyone in particular but as regards the coat getting ruined etc -I was under the impression this was a Rottweiler? So very unlikely indeed to develop a problem coat, and if the dog does not have issues with nervousness etc, then no it will NOT make a difference if he has one testicle or none at all. Nobody said to neuter now, but at aged 2 or so.

some really really interesting comments here....if he cant be shown he cant be shown...he\'ll stay a pet,even more reason for the oh to allow me another in a few years ha ha:-)

> I was under the impression this was a Rottweiler? So very unlikely indeed to develop a problem coat, and if the dog does not have issues with nervousness etc, then no it will NOT make a difference if he has one testicle or none at all.

Actually it can affect the coat of short coated breeds to. They may not be as difficult to manage as longhaired breeds but it can still thicken them and cause them to moult to excess. And you haven't addressed the issue of muscle tone and weight gain. Both affected by testosterone. Additionally studies are starting to show a higher incidence of cancer in neutered dogs and Rotties as a breed tend to be  more prone than some to cancer.

There was also a study not so long ago of Rottweiler bitches which showed they lived longer when entire. I don't think it is too much of a stretch to think that maybe the dogs could also live longer if left as nature intended.

If a man had to have both testicles removed he would be supplemented with testosterone for life. Not just if he wanted to have children. Surely this suggests that testosterone has important functions in the body apart from enabling reproduction.

My first welsh springer ended up with a retained (inguinal) testicle. I waited till he was 16 months old and then had only the retained testicle removed, which caused a huge fuss with my then vet, not least because I asked them to x-ray his hips while he was under GA--evidently they suspected I would breed from him. They were so inflexible about understanding why it was important to have a hip score even for a dog that would never be used, and why it might be better for a dog to keep his normal testicle given he would never be bred from, that we parted compnay immediately after his surgery. 5 years on I am quite clear the decision I made regarding his surgery was the right one for him and for me.

7 weeks is vey young--wait and see what happens, and don't be bullied by your vet into having him fully castrated unless you are sure that's what you want.

Can often drop when puppies have their testosterone surge at around 7-8 months.

Re castration affecting coats - it can with short-coated breeds too.   With the oldies (Bassets) we had to have done, they tended to grow heavier coats, as well as putting on weight, unless I kept their diets under strict control.