I am still having problems with barking dogs and neighbours. The main problem time is walks. It is becoming increasingly difficult to walk them because the ones not out on the walk are barking and upsetting the neighbour.

I know there are several people on here that have a large number of dogs, I am just wondering how you manage walks. Presumably the people with up to 20 dogs cant walk them all every day so what do you do to keep the ones who are not walked happy? At the moment I am doing training and playing games. hunt for toys, finding biscuits etc to keep them mentally stimulated but I worry about the lack of physical exercise every day. I have been considering a treadmill but am  not sure how good they are?  does anyone use them?

I am sorry but I find it unacceptable to have so many dogs you cannot give them all the correct exercise every day. If you have not got room to give them a run on your own land and cannot walk them all maybe you have too many dogs.
When I kept a large number of GSD's my day was given over to caring grooming walking and making sure they have clean warm comfy kennels.
A tread mill is no substitute for proper walks.
Aileen

The main problem time is walks. It is becoming increasingly difficult to walk them because the ones not out on the walk are barking and upsetting the neighbour

I agree, in  fact it's 8:53pm right now, I have been back from my dogs walk appx 15 mins ago, the 'walk' actualy started at appx 3:10pm & I got back to the car just before 6:30pm - then had to drive back to my area of london, did a shop for socks & belt  at Tesco Hatfield & a food shop here at my local Tesco which does not sell clothes & got back 15 mins ago - usually 5 of the 7 days per week are spent on her exercise her as I did today & the remaining 2 days, Richmond park or maybe Kensington Gardens or Hyde park.

I agree with you, some of the elements involving walking dogs can be problematic - I have one dog!
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> I am sorry but I find it unacceptable to have so many dogs you cannot give them all the correct exercise every day.

It is not the number of dogs that is the problem! I am perfectly able to walk them. I do it in 2 lots and that has been working fine for years. The problem is since I moved house one of the dogs won't be left while I walk the other lot and barks and howls continually. This is (understandably)causing major problems with a neighbour. I am working on trying to get him happier with being left while I walk the others but not having much success so far. I can't take him on both walks because he doesn't get on with one of the others. I am not happy with the situation but short of having the problem dog put to sleep as he cannot be rehomed I really don't know what else to do.

I have always done my best to look after my dogs very well and am doing the best I can in a very difficult situation and I don't appreciate being told I am not a fit owner!!. Incidentally all my dogs live with me as pets in the house and are not shut up in kennels all day no matter how warm and comfy!

sorry I have miss read your post I thought you were saying you could not walk all of your dogs every day as you had too many. It was the reference to "20 dogs" that threw me somewhat.
I no longer have kennelled dogs but when with my ex we had 14 GSD's too many to live in the house so some had kennels. Not by my choice but his .. Hence the ex bit !!
There is really no alternative to walks. Its hard I know but we lived in a remote area so no close neighbours to annoy. I assume you have tried such things as a filled kong or something to keep this problem dog quiet ?
Have you changed the walking routine at all ? Now you have moved do you go in the car rather than by foot or vies versa ? Are you out longer than you sed to be at the old house ?If it has started since you moved maybe there is a trigger that sets him off.
Aileen

> It was the reference to "20 dogs" that threw me somewhat.

that was because I know there are people on here that do have a lot of dogs and wondered what they did if they couldn't walk them all.

> I assume you have tried such things as a filled kong or something to keep this problem dog quiet ?

yes he will not eat or chew a bone when left.

> Have you changed the walking routine at all ?

walks are done at the same time as previously and the same dogs taken at the same time.

>Now you have moved do you go in the car rather than by foot or vies versa ?

no still on foot as previously

>Are you out longer than you sed to be at the old house ?

not really.

>If it has started since you moved maybe there is a trigger that sets him off.

that seems to be me leaving the house

Presumably the people with up to 20 dogs cant walk them all every day so what do you do to keep the ones who are not walked happy?

I personally wouldn't have that number unless they could get exercise, hence we have the use of one entire field (about 12 acres) 2 minutes van journey away (we pack the van as full as possible!) and one part field just outside our fence (half an acre), where several dogs can be run together offlead. And my front garden is big enough for my toydogs to run and run, as they are so small the size is like a field to them. (The front garden is big enough even for big dogs to run -it is bigger than many people's back gardens.) So although I don't get every single dog out on a lead every day, everyone gets a run -with the exception of the oldie whose legs aren't too good so doesn't always want to. But yes, I can see your problem and again it is location -it certainly does happen that the dogs I leave behind bark as I don't take ALL out at the same time (some don't get on etc) but when I put mine in the house there is nobody near enough that can hear them bark. I started locking the rest in the house if I go out with some as once I was over half a mile away and could clearly hear the dogs left outside at home barking!

I found with neighbours who were very unpleasant I struggled leaving dogs and putting them in and out of the van seemed to irritate them enormously (although they couldn't tell I was doing it unless they caught sight of me!) so I moved to somewhere without neighbours and have a big field they can run in as well as a smallish garden... I have them out in two groups and although the ones in the house bark a bit no one can hear them - and I make sure the windows are shut!

I am considering moving as the situation is making me so unhappy. Unfortunately I have only recently moved to this house and have spent a lot of money getting it altered to suit me and the dogs. It hasnt got a huge garden but it has some very nice walks on the door step so I thought we would benefit from being able to do nice walks a few times a day, It seems I was wrong. The walks are no use to us if I can't leave the house :(

I dont know if this is new behaviour since we moved or whether he used to bark at the old house but I didnt realise as no one complained about it. IncidentalyI only have 8 dogs so take 4 out at a time. I only mentioned 20 as I wondered how people with that many managed .

Separation anxiety can be a tough one to crack and it sounds like this has been triggered in one of your dogs by the move....that is that dog finds it harder to cope with change. You could speak to your vet about something to take the edge of his anxiety and that might help him/her adapt.

I wonder if you could take that dog on both walks but keep him on a lead attached to your waist on the walk with the dog that doesn't get on with him?

I can offer much sympathy  Newyork having been in a similar situation myself. We moved from our lovely home in a seaside town to the countryside because of a couple of unpleasant anonymous letters pushed through the letterbox and a letter from the council. We were vindicated in so far as the council did not opine that barking was excessive but it was enough for me . I do not like living in hostile environments. We had enough of nasty neighbours when my children were young. Seems to me that you are doing your very best by your dogs and to placate your neighbour. There may be some comfort in the knowledge that should your neighbour lodge a formal complaint to the council about your dogs this will be logged and on record. If your neighbour wants to sell his house at any time in the future this will have to be declared and will possibly make it difficult for him to sell his home. I've got 12 dogs ranging in age from 14+ down to 11 months. I take the younger ones out on long forest walks and just run the oldies twice a day in our paddocks. It's enough for the oldies. I don't particularly like where we live  as we front on a busy rural road, the land is pretty soggy at the best of times ( now just a swamp) and there's b...er all to do in the village but at least we don't have complaining neighbours -not yet anyway. We will be moving within next few months or so but will have to be careful to avoid potential problems with neighbours.

I am considering moving as the situation is making me so unhappy. Unfortunately I have only recently moved to this house and have spent a lot of money getting it altered to suit me and the dogs.

I don't think it matters - neighbours who are subjected to disruptive noise which decreases or ruins the quality of life they enjoyed in 'their' home prior to the noise nuisance will not tolerate the loss of that quality with a yappy, noisy dog -

Also bear in mind if a neighbour, within range of the noise/nuisance wants to sell their house and show potential buyers around a hear the noise dog 'nuisance' barking in the vacinity it could ruin the prospects of them selling that house if its present when a potential buyer inspects the property & location (views it)! People dont spend hundreds of thousands to live in the vaccinity of such disruption.

It would be preferable to conquer the separation anxiety and stop the barking - but I accept that's much, much easier said than done!

In the meantime here are a few other options to consider:
* look for someone who will dog sit once a day for this noisy dog - in your home or at theirs.  If it's at their house you might be able to enlist their help in working on the anxiety...
* prepare a soundproofed room/crate - I appreciate this doesn't solve the dog's problem but it will help the neighbours
* muzzle your problem dog and take him on every walk
* pay a dog walker to take some of your dogs, or him, thereby ensuring that no one is home alone

In truth you cannot sacrifice the quality of life enjoyed by your other dogs just to accommodate the needs of one.  Equally you must be seen to be doing everything in your power to reduce or stop the noise for your neighbour.

Obviously there are times when you need to go out without any of your dogs - do they bark then?  If they do then I suspect you seriously need to consider an intensive training programme, a soundproofed room, a reduction in numbers, or a move.  I don't envy you at all and wish you lots of luck

Did you try putting him in a crate with a dark cover over it whilst you walk the other dogs? It generally does work. ;-)

If you can't take him on both walks because it is only one other dog he doesn't get on with, but he can't be rehomed, could you consider rehoming the one dog that he doesn't get on with instead?

Sympathies, it's difficult when things have previously worked OK, but 8 dogs is a huge amount for any normal urban setting with neighbours really.

M.

You do seem to have a problem. But it is not fair on your neighbours to have dogs barking every day and it is not fair on the dogs to miss walks because of it.
I would think you are down to just a couple of options. Re-home one of the dogs but them you would still struggle with walking 7 all together, unless  you re-home the noisy one and you say he cannot be re-homed. Have a dog walker come and help out so you both take dogs out together and solve the problem, move to a more remote area (Not easy with cost implications)
If the situation continues as it is you are going to be forced to do something, better its your choice than someone else's. If you stop walking them you will have neurotic dogs on your hands and trying to tire them out with a treadmill will not stimulate their minds. You could run into all sorts of behavioural problems that way.
I had to re-home a dog who at 18 months decided she would pick on her Mum all the time. I could have kept them separate but it would have been a half life for them. Hard as it was to do I chose to find the youngster a great home and she has never looked back. It was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do and it broke my heart but she is a happy well adjusted 5 year old now and it was the best thing I could have done for her.
I hope you can find a solution you are happy with but I fear it may not be the one you would like.
Aileen

> * look for someone who will dog sit once a day for this noisy dog - in your home or at theirs.

He doesn't like people. I wouldn't trust him with a person he doesn't know. He is not good with other dogs either hence why I couldn't rehome him.

> * prepare a soundproofed room/crate - I appreciate this doesn't solve the dog's problem but it will help the neighbours

I have set up a crate under the stairs but haven't used it yet. It just feels wrong to shut him in such a small room even though I can leave the light on. I suppose if he is in a crate it doesnt matter what size room he is in.

> * muzzle your problem dog and take him on every walk

Even muzzled he intimidates the other dog and is a pain if he is on lead when everyone else is off lead. And I have to walk about 10 minuttes each way with all the dogs on lead to get to the off lead area and then he istrying to fight with the one he doesn't like. Managing 4 or 5 dogs is difficult when one is trying to kill another one.

> * pay a dog walker to take some of your dogs, or him, thereby ensuring that no one is home alone.

That would possibly work as they could take the easy dogs while I take the difficult one. Except that I usually go out at 5:30 am with him so we don't meet other people and dogs.

> Obviously there are times when you need to go out without any of your dogs - do they bark then?

He doesn't seem to bark much when the others are home. It only seems to be when some are out on a walk so I am not sure it is separation anxiety. It seems to be more that he is upset that they are having a walk and he isn't.

> If you can't take him on both walks because it is only one other dog he doesn't get on with, but he can't be rehomed, could you consider rehoming the one dog that he doesn't get on with instead?

Yes that is an option but the dog he hates is my current show and agility dog and I am having a lot of fun with him. I really don't want to rehome him because mr nasty can't behave. :(

> You do seem to have a problem. But it is not fair on your neighbours to have dogs barking every day

I know and I am doing my best to deal with the problem. The worry is making me ill.

> and it is not fair on the dogs to miss walks because of it.

No and I love walking my dogs and I hate that I am having to stop taking them out because of this problem. What should have been a nice move to a lovely house in a nice area with lots of lovely walks has turned into a nightmare.

newyork,

What kind of dog is 'mr nasty', can you tell us a bit more about him and the rest of your pack?

How do you manage his behaviour at home with the other dogs? Is he kept separate from a number of them or just one? From what you have said it is not clear if he tries to fight with a number of the pack or just one in particular. Is he as antsi inside your home as outside?

I'd be inclined to think about getting a good behaviourist in and see if you cannot work on his relationship with the rest of your pack- it might require something from the vet to bring his stress levels down and get you and him through a period of rehabilitation.

I can imagine how stressful this is, especially if he is a dog that could not easily be rehomed.

> I'd be inclined to think about getting a good behaviourist in

Yes you are right of course. This situation is becoming so difficult and causing me so much stress that it is stupid for me to continue muddling along hoping it will get better. It might be expensive but not as expensive as moving house again would be so has got to be worth a try. I have made an appointment with the vet for this afternoon.

newyork,

Very best of luck. I don't know where you live and forgive if I am teaching granny to suck eggs, but do look at getting an APBC or UKRCB person in if possible. The first organisation represents animal behaviourists, a fair few are vets as well as qualified behaviourists. The second is for canine behaviourists only. Both have stringent selection criteria and members have to be both academically qualified, as well as having a proven and demonstrable track record of hands on experience.

Google the website of each and look for members local to you...all will prefer to work on vet referral.

Please let us know how you get on and I do hope you get the help you need. Perhaps your insurance covers you for behaviour issues?

That was what I was going to suggest.

We are lucky as we have a house that barking doesn't affect people but they only bark if they hear our cars or people come to the door.

How ever we have a dog and house sitter coming and I have agreed that the dogs are walked separately as I want them to do one to one walks with them as the oldie Puds won't need the level of walking the other two do.

I want to make sure whilst we we away thy have the company of each other so they don't fret.

I am sure a behaviourist will be able to help

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Yes that is an option but the dog he hates is my current show and agility dog and I am having a lot of fun with him. I really don't want to rehome him because mr nasty can't behave

So--- what does he do when you are away at shows? If you just take the show dog on his own and he has company of the other dogs presumably he is okay? In which case, why don't you split them up into smaller groups to walk so he always has company, or maybe walk the show dog on his own, which presumably the other dog would be okay with if he is okay with you taking him to shows?

What size is the dog who barks and doesn't like one of your other dogs? Just wondering if it would be possible to use one of those stroller type things so he could accompany you and the dog he doesn't like on a second walk but be contained within the stroller?

Boy, sympathies...I have 4 (3 dogs and a bitch) and the two oldest dogs don't get on. I do walk them all together though and they are fine with that so long as we observe exactly the same procedures each tme. They can't be allowed access to each other in the house so we have a constant shift and change of dogs in crates.

I have 2 crates in the car--2 dogs go in together and my top dog rides with the bitch. If I had to walk them separately I'd take one crateful at a time. Because my dogs are used to going everywhere in the car they don't react at all in the same way that they woud if I left them at home...your neighbours would be able to hear them all the way from here! They stay quiet in the car though.

Can you try that? Maybe drive them somewhere unfamiliar to them and exercise them there, in twos?

I have set up a crate under the stairs but haven't used it yet. It just feels wrong to shut him in such a small room even though I can leave the light on. I suppose if he is in a crate it doesnt matter what size room he is in.

Newyork, so pleased you have not done this............. if you shut him in the understairs cupboard in a crate he will be completely stressed and probably howl and bark more than ever.

The crate needs to be in a familiar room, kitchen, dinning, day room, bedroom etc it needs to be his den a nice place to visit with treats/ a knuckle bone in there to keep him occupied, let him get used to it for short periods whilst you are in the house then after a few days put him in whilst out for your walk and cover it to avoid any stimulus.

Shut yourself in the cupboard in a crate and you will probably feel panicked, shut yourself in the crate in a room with tv, radio on and you won't, it is the same for a dog. :-)

Get the setting right and your dog will be fine......... hopefully, it really did work for my friend and she had a yapping JR who settled very quickly into this routine when she went out, not a peep. ;-)

Can you try that? Maybe drive them somewhere unfamiliar to them and exercise them there, in twos?

That's fine this time of year, but what about the summer when no dog can safely be left inside a car or van? Breeds matter as well as some breeds people would break into a car to steal, those that look big and dangerous far less likely.

Good points Marianne--I want to add that I was only thinking about now during winter months when it isn't too warm inside a vehicle.

I had a dog that would do this.  Here's what I did.  I spent a week of disrupted walks and used my OH and kids to help.  I would put him in the space(utitity room) where he would be when I would usually go out, only I would only leave the sight of him for a couple of seconds and kept re-appearing.  He was used to me putting him in there, putting the leashes on the other 2 and leaving, which would start the howling!  This confused him enough to keep him interested but silent.  My OH and kids were taking the other dogs out short walks throughout the day too.  Then I would leave him in the space and go out the door and come straight back, again repeating this constantly till he got fed up watching.  I then brought out the big guns....peanut butter filled kong!  This keeps him interested enough that he can't hear us leave.
Also, I put the other dogs leashes on in the front garden now too so I don't get the excited scrabbling at the front door and this would hype him up.
And I leave the TV on so he 'thinks' someone is still home.
This was about a month of total, consistant training but Honestly, was so worth it.  He no longer barks and even if he starts to get excited about the others going, I can calm him now.
Also, he ALWAYS goes walks first.  I don't think he would settle otherwise.

Goldmali,
I had also considered and discounted crating in the car for similar reasons.

I remember your post about this late last year, and it doesn't appear that you've had any luck. Obviously his re-homing fell through which is a pity as it doesn't seem to be a happy situation for you, him, your neighbours or your other dogs. Is there no chance he could still be re-homed ?. I'm guessing he gets on with all but one of your others so a quiet home with maybe just one other dog would surely suit him better. I can't see another alternative and I'd be tempted to re-home him before the neighbours make their complaints formal when you could then be forced to take action.

I'd be tempted to re-home him before the neighbours make their complaints formal

I agree, but, I was one of 2 people who designed & carried out a survey of rescue vacancies of 56 rescues we found via a net search of all breed rescues - the sample, hypothetical dog, had no stated problems - in short of the 56 rescues we found in the 4 UK countries only 10 offered a place within the 17 day deadline we said the hypthetical dog had.

The resevation I have is that a new owner should be informed of the barking situation first & an option to return it to 'Newyork' within XXX days if the new owner has the same problem.
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