BBC 1pm news.

A Malamute has been removed by police from a house in Carmarthen after baby from the same house died in hospital- the news report emphasised the dog but no details of the death or the cause were made.
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Just curious, why do you keep reporting these here?

Just curious, why do you keep reporting these here?

Why do you ask me completly irrelevant questions about my behaviour here?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10645948/Family-dog-seized-after-babys-death-in-Wales.html
and
http://news.sky.com/story/1213526/family-dog-seized-after-death-of-newborn-baby

WHEN will people learn. :( Yet another large, powerful breed acquired as an adult rescue with unknown background -from a bloke in a pub!, just months before the couple had a baby due, and then the dog presumably being left alone with the baby. Why oh why take such a risk?

Completely baffling - why have people not yet learned not to leave dogs alone with babies, specially large, powerful, only-just-purchased-with-no-idea-of-its-history dogs. Idiots. Now the poor baby is dead and the poor dog will be pts. :-(

Only 6 days old, shocking really, just 6 days of life - I used to live in that tiny little village, Pontyberem, some years ago.
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so very very sad all round.

I can not begin to imagine what the family are going through :-( reports say the Mum said the dog ate her babies head.

I read that the dog was rescued from a man at the pub.

Very very sad for all concerned - the dog included :-(

Terribly sad . Poor baby. Cannot understand why/how this continues to happen. Do people not read the news/watch TV ? Hasn't there been enough in the news regarding the dangers of leaving young babies/children unattended with dogs ? And this a recent acquisition 'brought home from the pub' -Yeah Gods !

The Jack Russell last year  http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/90818who killed a baby was ruled as accidental death, why do people leave babies and young children with an animal, and often an animal not their own???

I feel very sorry for the family but have to say that I believe the parents have to take some responsibility and another dog will be put to sleep.

Dogs get jealous of a new baby whatever the background so no one should leave a baby or child alone with a dog for any reason.

My girls were 5 and 3 before we got a dog which was a Jack Russell but we had to rehome him because he was too unpredictable with the girls.

So sad for everyone involved.

My question: Just curious, why do you keep reporting these here?

Hethspaw response: Why do you ask me completly irrelevant questions about my behaviour here?

Because I'm interested...  I've often wondered why posters repost this sort of news item as there never seems to be anything new to say.  On a personal level I find the level of interest ghoulish but perhaps I'm in the minority so I wondered what motivated you to publicise both of the recent cases.

Because I'm interested...  I've often wondered why posters repost this sort of news item as there never seems to be anything new to say

Thats where your wrong - as recent as 6-9 years ago if there was as much as one death in a 12 months period it would be a rare event - even looking at your post, human deaths via a dog bite seem to have become such a normal "only to be expected" to some people they dont think it worth a mention even on a dog forum! - dogs have been domesticated for around 15,000 years, it seems a recent dramatic change has taken place.
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I sadly just think that the human race is getting more and more stupid, there is no common sense, no instinct, people don't seem to know anything anymore.

Continual stories like this, and no-one learns.... what is wrong with the human race today?

For those who do not get it yet......... dogs are predators, they hunt, they have prey drives, respect needs to be given and their instincts acknowledged.

What a terrible waste of life, the parents no doubt are horrified........ but it could have so been avoided.

I'm afraid I am just getting more cross than sympathetic which is a shame for me as well, I shouldn't feel that way....

I find the level of interest ghoulish

I am not surprised, the killing of a 6 day old baby is nothing less than a very ghoulish event and happening more and more often & seems to be accepted by some as just a normal event not worth a mention, which to my mind makes it even more goulish!

Maybe thats why these killings are happening with an ever increasing frequency
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From what I've read the dog hasn't been put to sleep yet so it doesn't sound like a savage attack, maybe a gentle inquisitive nip. Still not right of course but even the smallest of injuries to the head of a very tiny baby could easily prove fatal. It's just so very sad and so easily preventable.
Also, if it's true that the dog was bought as an adult from a man in a pub, I guess it's possible that the dog had been stolen - in which case, if the true owners are found via a chip then I'm not sure what would happen.

The Jack Russell last year it was an 8 day old baby.

years ago (I was a child) I remember it was a JR and a\ Yorkie and a very young baby.

I don't know if the incidences are increasing, or simply being reported more, as we now are bomba5rded with more info on-line etc.

Re the posting of news stories like this - well if just one person joins this forum before bringing a dog into their home and learns from comments from experienced owners about what can happen then I think it's well worth discussing.

Arched
it doesn't sound like a savage attack, maybe a gentle inquisitive nip

Press quote - 'She just kept on saying: "The dog ate my baby's head. He's blaming me for it - the baby's gone."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562020/Police-seize-family-dog-baby-killed-Wales.html

Heathspaw -
Are you an entity from the starship eneterprise or what?
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We don't even know if the death was caused by the dog, the baby had just come out of intensive care, could the baby have died a cot death and then attracted the dogs attentions.

Normally in these cases the Police quite clearly report the dog being the cause of death, they are not in this case so it may be unclear.

Indeed, it's reported that they are awaiting reports of the post mortem. My feelings are that if it had a been a mad savage attack then that dog would have been euthanised immediately.

Well, the Malamute wasn't the only dog, they also had a small terrier called Roxy.

Waiting to see what is next reported.     Whether the Malamute was at fault, or the Terrier, remains to be seen.

>I sadly just think that the human race is getting more and more stupid, there is no common sense, no instinct, people don't seem >to know anything anymore...

>it could have so been avoided.

>I'm afraid I am just getting more cross than sympathetic which is a shame for me as well, I shouldn't feel that way....

You aren't on your own, that's pretty much how I feel too :-(

The majority of people today seem to have no awareness of  CONSEQUENCES -   that which happens as a result of something you did, or didn't do.     

Dogs aren't stuffed soft toys, no matter how cute, sweet and cuddly they seem, yet this is the way most people view them.   

No doubt there will be more calls for legislation on dog controls, yet no change in the dog laws would stop the stupid and horrendous deaths of babies and children, if  the people caring for them are stupid enough to have dogs unsupervised around them

Poor, poor baby, this shouldn't have happened to her.

Hethspaw I think you misunderstand.  I don't think the event is 'normal' or 'only to be expected' just that the same posters reply to each posted event and all say the same things over and over again and I wondered what motivated you to post.

It's not that I think it isn't worth a mention as such but that I don't think it useful or educational for anyone to revel in such terrible events.  It's not as if anyone really knows anything other than what has already appeared in the news.  I actually think much of our news coverage on topics like this is ghoulish.  Ghoulish as I use it means "one who delights in the revolting, morbid, or loathsome"

If education is required I'm not sure it happens as a result of these type of posts.  I think it happens when we give advice to 'would be' buyers when they ask about breeds, or having puppies with young children, or when to get good behavioural input...

( being very suspect after reading the newspaper report) If the baby's head had been eating why would the air ambulance have taken the baby to hospital and pronounced dead there? If the baby had its head eaten it would be dead and pronounced dead in the ambulance outside, not able to be resuscitated :(
Something has gone on involving the dog, but no one knows. Until they do there is no reason for supposition as until we know we are in the lap of the dogs as the media will report anything ...... (I will say I hope my thoughts are wrong for the parents feelings, as I know how I feel by my step daughter having her finger bitten off by a dog who she was left with the first time they met while her mother nd new boyfriend were in the next room :(while she was in her mothers care! ( she is now with us totally with no contact bar 3 hours a month apart from phone contact with her mother!)
I just hope the parents are not to blame  as I feel guilty even though she was not with us at the time and we knew nothing about it until after it happened!
Btw the dog that did this to my step daughter was a collie, she is now 6 and this happened at 2 ! And I have been with her dad since she was 18 months for.  5 years! She came to us the day after and was with a rottie and an am cocker! Now lives with 2 Rottweilers and an am cocker. Not scared of dogs at all, but is wary of collies that came out a few times so we try and get her to meet them whenever we know there is. Friendly one!

No help in this case, but I just thought I´d mention that my daughter´s dog gets very upset by the sound of a young baby crying.  When my granddaughter was a young baby the poor dog got so stressed that he had to come and live with me for several weeks.  Even now, over a year later, if he shows signs of being stressed by the noise of young children, he will come and stay with me for a few days to relax him.

dogs have been domesticated for around 15,000 years, it seems a recent dramatic change has taken place.

Yes that dramatic change is that suddenly such incidences are big news stories, which they once were not. I believe it has been reported that more children die at the hands of their own parents every year than from dog attacks, and also more people die from injuries caused by horses than by dogs, but we hardly ever see this in the news.

Do you think that's the only change, Goldmali, or do you not think that there is also major change in the kinds of dogs people keep and in how they keep them? Completely aside of any banned or not breed specifics, a lot of cases are of huge powerful dogs that are not being physically or mentally exercised. Surely people just didn't keep dogs this way in the past - specialist breeds were in specialist homes.

How many dogs bites are reported? I remember In the past that the majority of logged dog bitesthat were hospitalised were from Labradors?? Not from everyday good dog owners?

I cringe each and every time I see a "cutesy" picture of a dog and a baby cuddled up together.   Am I the only one who sees disaster looming in these pictures?

I trust my dogs implicitly - but in over 50 years of dog ownership, I have never, ever left them alone with a baby or a young child.   I trust my dogs - but they ARE dogs - and could be unpredictable - a baby crying/mewling - could be prey?    I trust my children not to be cruel to a dog - but they are children and might just poke a dog in the eye - or ear?   I cannot say it often enough NEVER EVER LEAVE BABIES/TODDLERS AND DOGS ALONE TOGETHER.

Too much Disneyfication doesn't help either :(

>If the baby's head had been eating why would the air ambulance have taken the baby to hospital and pronounced dead there? If the baby had its head eaten it would be dead and pronounced dead in the ambulance outside, not able to be resuscitated :-(

My guess, assuming the dog did actually do damage to the baby, is that the distraught mother was using a fair bit of hyperbole, rather than literally the head being eaten completely. :-(

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  The parents are at fault.  If they can't supervise a child or baby, and actually leave the child alone with the dog, they should never be allowed to have any more children.

>My guess, assuming the dog did actually do damage to the baby, is that the distraught mother was using a fair bit of hyperbole, >rather than literally the head being eaten completely.

My guess is that a very distressed mother, probably incoherent with grief,  was misheard or misunderstood.

Lets face it, the tabloids aren't known for their accuracy or checking the facts, when something sensational would sell more papers :-(

According to the one report, the police didn't sieze the dog immediately, it was walking around on the road and a neighbour took it to a policeman/woman.   Surely if they thought the dog had killed the baby, they would have had it in custody immediately and not left it wandering about?    They have a duty to secure all evidence.

major change in the kinds of dogs people keep and in how they keep them?

Here in London there was/is such noticable changes over this past 10 years, including an increase in numbers - that said over this past 3 or so years there is a noticable decline in the high numbers.

Completely aside of any banned or not breed specifics,

Again, here in London, those specifics could not be put aside, the significant, noticable increase was in bull breed types.

a lot of cases are of huge powerful dogs that are not being physically or mentally exercised.

Again here in London, that was the case & still is to some extent but one missing variable from the above was the lack of knowledge of dogs in general, complete absence of any training or interest in foundation OB (obedience) training, as far as 'adequate' excercise goes also non existant.

Surely people just didn't keep dogs this way in the past

I think the increases mentioned above was not really an increase in dog ownership but an increase in groups & people who would not in the past
be the sort who would bother or own dogs. As I said the excess of dogs now seem to be in decline in numbers - all that suggests it was a fashion generated abnormality.

All that said - I live in a police zero tolerance area so that may well be the independant variable infuencing many of the factors around here which I highlighted.

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>I trust my dogs implicitly - but in over 50 years of dog ownership, I have never, ever left them alone with a baby or a young child.   I trust my dogs - but they ARE dogs - and could be unpredictable - a baby crying/mewling - could be prey?    I trust my children not to be cruel to a dog - but they are children and might just poke a dog in the eye - or ear?   I cannot say it often enough NEVER EVER LEAVE BABIES/TODDLERS AND DOGS ALONE TOGETHER.<br />

I agree with everything you say Lokis mum.

I have metal railings across my lounge with gate, baby gate at the bottom of the stairs, baby gate across my sons room. My dogs have never been allowed upstairs even before I had kids. I even have a baby gate between my laundry and kitchen so I can sleep in peace knowing my pugs are separate from my Doberman.

I don't believe any of my dogs would deliberately hurt my kids but for so little effort why take the chance? It only takes 2 seconds to open and close a baby gate.

With the last attack only a couple of weeks ago you would think anyone having a baby in the days that followed would have been alerted to the risks. Is it ignorance or arrogance?

I am so sick of hearing these stories, my youngest is the same age as the little girl that died a couple of weeks ago, I just couldn't imagine putting him in that position.  I had another sleepless night feeling sick to my stomach :(

Do you think that's the only change, Goldmali, or do you not think that there is also major change in the kinds of dogs people keep and in how they keep them?

I do think it is the biggest change although of course I agree that more people now are keeping dogs totally unsuitable for their situation. People are killed by all sorts of breeds of dog, but we tend to hear a lot more about it now than before, and more often than not it's the "scary" breeds that are reported in the media. For instance back in the 80s there was a case local to me, as in literally a couple of roads away in the same area, where a Staffie cross killed a newborn baby. (Same story -baby and dog left alone together.) It was mentioned in the local newspaper but it never made the national news. Had it happened today, it would have been reported everywhere. Everyone having the internet available also makes ANY news travel much faster.

I suspect that people are keeping a greater range of dogs, many of which have a need to work but are not given proper outlets for those drives, instead they are let off lead once or twice a day to run around, if they are lucky.

Brainless pointed to the 'fit for function' dilemma. A dog with a strong working drive may be a wonderful example of its breed but less great as an average family pet without proper outlets. I think it was Jean Donaldson who queried whether there is really any place in the modern pet world for one-person/ suspicious/protective breeds unless those traits are greatly reduced through a breeding programme.

It is though almost impossible to legislate against human stupidity and anyone leaving their baby or toddler alone with a dog, if that is what happened in this case, is taking a risk. Even a dog that has been reliable all it's life can have an off day or feel unwell and behave out if character or react out of fear.

I cringe each and every time I see a "cutesy" picture of a dog and a baby cuddled up together.   Am I the only one who sees disaster looming in these pictures?

No you are not.   Yahoo has (or had, I hope it's been removed) a cutesy video of a very young baby, lying on a pad on the floor with a Bichon (or other Poodle mix) sized dog lying next to, and then on her.   Watching it my blood was running cold which I wrote on that place and asking that this video be removed.   I had two people come back saying I was being OTT, exaggerating.   As long as there are idiots with this attitude, these tragedies will continue.   Yes, the reason for the death in this latest, have not been published yet, so perhaps the fact the infant was in hospital for 3 of her first 6 days of life meant she wasn't killed by the Mal.   If she was, then my take on it was dog left within reaching distance of the baby - new baby in the house which sounded like nothing the Mal. had heard in there before - always the potential to attack.

There was another vid. recently of a toddler with a large dog, who was clearly lifting his lip at the child.   This was being filmed so obviously rather than get the kid out of harms reach, whoever was in charge thought this was 'cute' too.   Shudder.  The child's face was the same height as the dog lifting his lip.   It's madness.

many of which have a need to work

If a dog has a high readiness to work combined with high working drives an outlet is essential for the mental health & stability of the dog - by "stability" I do not mean if its needs are not met it's going to attack someone or other dogs, but, the dog itself will 'suffer' in ways we as humans cannot define properly (for want of a better word).

Brainless pointed to the 'fit for function' dilemma. A dog with a strong working drive may be a wonderful example of its breed but less great as an average family pet without proper outlets.

I agree with the above, such a dog is not suitable to a non active life in a family which simply wants to walk around the block or local park a couple of times a day but also many pet owners who find themselves with such a dog may start a lifetime of growing enthusiasm & time put in to the needs of the dog 'because' such a dog has the potential to develope an interest the pet owner never had before & a high drive dog can live a fully enjoyable life with all the outlets it needs to express its drives & maybe more than it would have had in a routine, formal working role - lets face it, shooting is an expensive game & those guys probably give a working line spanniel far less between times than the dogs needs for frequent drive expression.
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I think this photo says it all!

http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt221/purefinder/Mobile%20Uploads/banstupid_zps5259628c.jpg

MamaBas,

Not to mention a range of 'cutesy' look at my dog guarding the baby videos. Here a range of dogs from various breeds are videoed lying across babies and snarling and growling as the owner's approach...giggling as they go. Great.

Hethspaw,

Yes, that is not to say a family cannot own a 'drivey' dog, just that they should not own one if they are not prepared to put in sufficient time for training and using the dog's brain. Unfortunately too many get a dog because it looks amazing (Husky's with blue eyes) or is unusual in some way, or is packed with muscle and makes the owner feel strong by association, without thinking through the implications of the temperament and drives of the dog.

Dogs a babe -
most of us report it here because it effects us all as dog owners and only other dog owners / lovers understand.

We feel anxious because our fur babies will again be slaughtered in the news with calls to ban certain breeds and certains amounts of dogs and we worry about  the what if's - and the only people we can share these thoughts and worries with are each other.

None of us know what happened - who is to say the baby didnt fall out of the moses basket and the dog tried to pick it up (unlikely i know)

'and also more people die from injuries caused by horses than by dogs, but we hardly ever see this in the news'.

This may well be true, but I would think horse related deaths are more likely to be accidents, suffered by riders who accepted the risks.  Quite different from a domestic pet incident in the home......

This may well be true, but I would think horse related deaths are more likely to be accidents, suffered by riders who accepted the risks.  Quite different from a domestic pet incident in the home......

But THIS is the entire problem in a nutshell! Dog owners SHOULD accept that any dog can pose a serious danger to a baby, as it is still an animal.

But THIS is the entire problem in a nutshell! Dog owners SHOULD accept that any dog can pose a serious danger to a baby, as it is still an animal.

I wouldn't argue with this - but the point I was trying to make was that incidents involving dogs attacking children are far more newsworthy than incidents involving horse-related injuries.

More cattle caused deaths too.

Does anyone know an update?

I live in Wales, and it's all gone quiet on the news.   The family paid tribute to the baby, but that's it.     Still waiting to see if we hear anything.    Welsh news is a bit capricious.   Something can be high profile, shocking etc.   Then we never hear of it again    

I live in Wales, and it's all gone quiet on the news.

Im in London, last I heard on news here was Wed eve, the 'cause' of death had not been given out & dog was still in custody.
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Also read that the second dog has also been removed from the house and is being held by the police - of course that could be just because the parents are still away.