I have to say I'm totally disappointed the way that CD is now running its advertising of litters.
In both of my breeds hip scoring has always been a requirement on here to register a litter, so whys it now acceptable for a bitch born in the UK with no hip or elbow scoring to be allowed a litter advertised on here?

I'm seeing people being refused for hip and elbow scored dogs because a dog has a 2 elbow yet it's ok for non health tested dogs to be advertised full stop whether its a stud dog or litter.

I've contacted admin regarding this and have not had a reply.

Anyone can they shed some light on this situation? I'm lost and it's not making any sense at all!!!

I have had the same reguarding a litter from my heart tested bitch about 3 years back and not allowed to put them up on CD but there has been plenty up from untested dogs and dogs carrying genetic problems still allowed on which is hardly fair.

Equally concerned and spoke to Admin about this ages ago.Apparently they feel that pups advertised from non health tested parents stick out like a sore thumb against those from health tested parents.

I have raised this issue with them many times. And yes, same excuse given, that 'discerning' puppy buyers will distinguish good breeders from bad etc.  Dream on CD !  Minimal testing -just enough to roughly oblige the KC , out of date eye test certificates etc abound on the site. I challenged a GR breeder after reading a page of drivel and no evidence that either dog ( sire nor dam , both owned by him) had any health screening whatsoever  and got a load of 'chav' abuse and threats of reporting to the Admin. He sold his puppies without any problem whatsoever.

It is completely illogical to allow the addition of litters with parents with no health tests (when they are recommended for the breed) and then not to allow litters to be listed where the results are above average. Nonsensical :(

Still no response from Admin. What I don't get when I contacted them previously they said all parents of litters had to be health tested as the requirements under the ABS, so in one breed it would be currently hips and the other hips as elbows.. Breed clubs also recommend the same, just don't get it.
They told me that elbows of 2 or more in any breed wouldn't be allowed to be advertised, if so then at least don't allow non health tested dogs of the same breed to be allowed on the litter advertisement page!!

Sorry it's really got my goat this matter, I always thought that they had to be health tested and have been told by Admin they always check, well this is beyond a joke now...

It is more than beyond a joke . It is patently/obviously/ etc unfair ! and above all, irresponsible. The inadequacies of our KC are frequently debated on this forum and we all agree that permitting puppies to be registered without adequate/required health screening of parents and puppies is an abuse of the system in whatever context yet CD allow casual,insouciant, irresponsible  breeders to advertise on the site. This is a dumbing down of all who advertise on CD. We are indistinguishable , in the eyes of puppy buyers , from those advertising in the free ads et al.

It's a pity because of all the general dog/puppy sale websites out there, I have always recommended CD as one carrying a good percentage of 'better' breeders.   However, fact is buying a puppy is still a 'buyer beware' situation.   So it really is up to the buyer to do their homework not just blindly buy because the litter happens to be listed on CD, another thing I always stress regardless of where the litter is advertised - and that includes on the KC lists!!.    The one time I was on that list I was horrified to find myself listed along with known Puppy Farmers in my breed.   Never again because clearly it's just down to registering a litter with the KC and paying a fee.

I would just say that in my own breed, not all breeders do test - many proven top breeders don't.   And it makes me laugh when seeing 'glaucoma unaffected'.    Would anybody breed from animals who were clearly suffering from glaucoma.   The test for my breed is for the congenital condition gonidysgenesis, 'the predisposing abnormality to primary angle-closure glaucoma'.    So that's what should be stated as unaffected, not glaucoma unaffected.  Again, buyer beware.

You are right Mamabas. It's just that we had high expectations of CD standards . Ultimately , of course , it is down to the puppy buyers to do their homework. I expect potential buyers to have done theirs , at least the basics anyway, with regard to health issues. Also agree with 'glaucoma unaffected' issue. Gonioscopy is the test and goniodysgenesis is the condition tested for. The breeder should know that. Also detest ads along lines of 'deposit secures ' -this often asked for before viewing the puppies. Yeah Gods ! We are talking about a living, sentient creature. You wouldn't pay a deposit on a car without seeing it so why should people be prepared to pay a deposit before viewing the litter , mum etc . Don't 'do' deposits anyway.

Jan - I have never taken deposits either.   Much as it's tempting if I have a big litter with big overheads LOL.   I just prefer not to.   I have given a deposit (when I went to see the litter at 5 weeks) however, when we bought our change of direction puppy Whippet.   Actually that was good, for me, as it split her cost in two wacks!!

I see that as very unfair too.
In my breed there is no required health testing just recommendations.
Most decent breeders however hip score and have done for years.
We are now going to elbow score too as a few others in the breed are doing. Now all our dogs could be 2 for all I know! (I hope not) but surely better to know and breed away from it. We have a small gene pool so getting rid our 2's is not an option. Anyway why would you if sound in all respects and with a good hip score too. At least we KNOW about our animals surely better than the breeders who do no health testing at all.
On this basis if one of mine comes up at 2 will I not be able to register yet another person in my breed who does no health testing at all can? In that case I would be better off not doing the test wouldn't I? It's not compulsory and expensive to boot but we're trying to do the right thing and improve.

The kennel Club and BVA have now issued new guidance re elbows that only 0 should be used for breeding and not 1's any longer, so certainly a 2 should not be bred from.

That's all well and good Brainless however if CD are happy for non health tested dogs to be advertised and litters from them advertised and then banning dogs which have an elbow score of 2 really it's fair.
I just don't understand the logic in this at all.
There is nothing fair about this matter at all.

however if CD are happy for non health tested dogs to be advertised and litters from them advertised and then banning dogs which have an elbow score of 2 really it's fair.

If the breed isn't required to be elbow scored then yes, what else can they do? Is it required or recommended? Why on earth would anyone want a litter from a score 2 anyway? I don't for a moment buy that any genepool can be so small that using unhealthy dogs is a must, not when it is so easy these days to go abroad.

It doesn't have to be fair.

It only has to be lucrative.    Fairness is immaterial in these matters :-(

Will no longer recommend CD as a place to find good breeders.   Sorry folks, but it's too risky.  From now on, I'll just send people to the breed clubs.

> From now on, I'll just send people to the breed clubs.

Sadly even then, as I went to a person in area breed club, well known, a judge & told what I wanted to hear, which turned out to be a load of tosh. Yes perhaps should have done even more research, but by going to someone in the 'breed club', had really hoped to get honest information, which sadly didn't happen & little to sheer disinterest for any problems we encountered.

The breed should be hip scored and to have a non hip scored dam of a litter being advertised doesn't make any sense.
Elbows are recommended so if you don't have them done you can advertise, if you do and it's a score of 2 or 3 then they won't allow full stop to be advertised.
My point is regardless of it being a 2 score it's the allowing of non hip scored parents to be registersed on here with a litter. Your breed has to be hip scored, you wouldn't take it as ok for a dam of a litter not to be scored at all and advertised on here, this is what we're talking about.

The breed should be hip scored and to have a non hip scored dam of a litter being advertised doesn't make any sense.
Elbows are recommended so if you don't have them done you can advertise, if you do and it's a score of 2 or 3 then they won't allow full stop to be advertised.

Ah now I see your point. If elbow scoring WASN'T even recommended then my point was that I don't see what else CD could do, but if it is, yes then that is different.