I have an awesome family for one of my pups. Been on my list for a while and have been super excited since the pups were born. I have been in regular contact with them but last night they hit me with wanting the pup to show. It had always been as a pet up till now but the young daughter wants to start showing.
I don't overly have an issue with that but they want to come and pick the pup just now and they r only 4 weeks old. My girl had a very small litter and at such a very young age I am not totally comfortable saying the pup is going to be of show standard. I don't think in good faith I could sell them a pup for showing that I can't guarantee is going to be show quality but not really sure what to do from here. I have tried to explain that it's too soon to tell but I am not sure they really totally understand.

"Show Potential" is the best that anyone can state [any animal] and that only if you really do think it has; and have paperwork clearly stating it.
But at 4 weeks? No way can anyone predict that young, and what on earth are they thinking, taking a puppy away so early? again.

Would put me right off - No, it would actually freak me out... to be honest. Bye bye buyers!

They don't won't to take the pup away just want to pick the one they want. Have to make that clear just in case anyone would think I was letting a 4 week old pup go!!!
It's difficult as up till now they have be they perfect home. It's thrown me a bit as if they pick a pup that's doesn't turn out show standard I get the feeling it's going to be unpleasant for me!

Don't do it then.

Your pup...your choice.
It'll only come back to bite you.

> They don't won't to take the pup away just want to pick the one they want.

Whew, I am glad I got the wrong end of the stick there.
But show potential at 4 weeks? Can't be done, really...

Sorry diggydog, but a litter is bred for ME.  Nobody gets to choose before I have had my pick.  I refuse to let anyone view before 5 weeks anyway.  I think they are being a bit naïve thinking they can change from a pet to a show potential pup at this stage. 

Be honest, tell them that they are being far too pushy.  If they don't like it, they can push off.  Sorry.

As above - SHOW POTENTIAL is all you can guarantee, and that doesn't guarantee winning at any level.   How the pup develops is very much down to potential + the input of the new owners and how they feed and exercise the pup, then how they train and present it.

I'm unclear about what you're saying.    Are you saying you wouldn't be able to pick out a pup with show potential from your own litter?      Do you show your dogs?   Have you kept pups in the past to show?

Top show breeders might keep a pup for up to 18 months before deciding to rehome one.

It sounds to me as if these people know nothing about picking a pup for show, in which case they should  be guided by their  breeder (you) and/or a mentor who knows your lines.   

In MY breed, and the lines I have, six weeks is about right for deciding on show potential or not, but different lines can be later as can different breeds.    Even then, it can be about three years before my dogs  reach their full maturity.   I wouldn't try to pick out a show pitential pup before 6 weeks!   Pointless.

In addition, if they are novices, they would be unlikely to get the best out of even a cracking pup wthout help from others., and again the breeder would be best placed for this so they should be listening to you.

If they want a showable puppy to have some fun and learn with (I'm assuming this is not an already successful exhibitor who will not be happy unless the pup becomes a real winner) then as long as it has no major faults what's the problem, how else are we to encourage new people into the sport.

As long as first and foremost it is wanted as a companion then there isn't really an issue.

Especially as it is for the daughter to show, which will mean they can do Junior handling, which is not based on the quality of the dog, so even if it doesn't turn out top drawer (and lets face it we take that same risk with each one we keep) then go ahead, as long as they realise that at this stage it's impossible to tell (unless something obviously excludes it already) and if by the time they are picking it up it is obviously not showing promise then make that clear.

I always try and encourage the owners of the most promising pups to give showing a go, as our numbers are falling and our gene pool is suffering as a result of too few new dogs coming through.

> if they pick a pup that's doesn't turn out show standard I get the feeling it's going to be unpleasant for me!

Tell them to go back to what planet they came from then :)
Perfect home or not, the people don't sound too perfect and have unreal expectations.

Dill - what I am saying is at this age I can't guarantee that any pup they choose even with my input is going to turn out show material.
I do show and keep and I am keeping a pup already from this litter. What I am saying is I am uncomfortable with the turn from per to show pup and not really sure if I should go ahead.

Brainless. What u have said totally makes sense. The daughter is in primary school and at this age the pups show no major faults. They r a fantastic family and I am trying to make it clear that they r getting a very healthy happy pup and if she does show well then it's a bonus and not something I can guarantee. I just don't really want them to come back in a few months being unhappy with the pup.

Ditto to Dill, more or less. Tell them if they want a show puppy then they can't pick one as they won't know what to look for, so they need you to do it for them at about 6 weeks. By 6 weeks it should be no problem picking a show pup (I usually pick mine well before then to be honest, and my mentor in one breed picks hers at BIRTH! So much depends on breed), but your contract should clearly state that show potential in your opinion at time of sale does in no way guarantee success in the show ring later on. After all, pups can change, and bad handling, bad grooming or even poor nutrition etc can make an otherwise very promising puppy turn into a bad one. But everyone has to start somewhere and personally I love it when a buyer wants to show!

In my experience it's unlikely, unless they are already in the competitive field with their dogs.

They probably have very little concept of 'showing' and would probably be delighted with prettiest bitch at the local companion show, and possibly Qualifying for Crufts would be a dream come true. 

So often when they realise the time, money and effort involved they end up not showing, and it can be most disappointing if you have let them have a really promising puppy.

Just find out what their expectations are, and explain in the end even the breeder has more alsorans than winners if they keep their dogs life long.

Think back to when you purchased the first dog you showed?

Sorry didn't mean that to sound snotty.  Just wasn't sure of your experience re showing (can't tell from your previous threads ;-) )

As you already show, they should absolutely trust you to help pick them a show prospect.   But they need to understand that there are no guarantees.   Lets face it, all any of us can expect is to have a bit of fun showing, anything else is just icing on the cake.   Sometimes we get lucky and there's more icing than cake.

Also, do they understand that temperament can play a big part too?    There are many exhibitors who can tell the tale of a fabulous looking dog who hates showing.  Some of this is down to the temperament of the dog, but I've also seen lovely dogs ruined for showing by over-enthusiastic newcomers.

Perhaps you need to have a chat with them to see what their expectations of showing are, and whether they are realistic?   But to be honest, if they are a fantastic family for a pet and would accept guidance etc there may not be a problem,  just a communication problem?

I would think that writing explicitly that show potential is no guarantee of show success in your contract and them signing it would prevent problems later?

To  be honest, I prefer a pup to be pet first, with a possibility of showing, than one bought  specifically for showing.   I'd hate to see a pup moved on if it didn't come up to scratch.

LOL forgot to say, 

Don't discount a child in Primary School, I've seen many talented children handling at  open and CH shows :-)

I can't agree more Jean SW.   When we bred a litter it was always for our next generation.   And as mine is a slow-maturing breed, much as being experienced over the years, I could usually get a gut feeling early on for a puppy's POTENTIAL, there was no way I'd pick at 4 weeks!!!     My best advice would be to let these people come and see the litter, but sit with them and explain that although this litter would have 'show potential' being from a top quality bitch to an equally good quality sire, there would be no guarantees about how each puppy would turn out, until considerably later.   Further, you'd be letting the clearly pet ones go at 8 + weeks, but would want to run on a couple of the more promising ones, before making YOUR OWN choice - at which point the other one MIGHT be available, for showing.   But that even then, as rearing up to 6 months would be up to them, whether the puppy would reach showing age still being good enough to show, or not.

You might also point out that if they want a 'show dog', they'd have to buy one at 6 months, which would cost them considerably more!!!  And it would perhaps need to be one with a few puppy wins already!

Me too didn't allow anybody, other than my neighbour, to view the puppies before 5 weeks - not that Basset puppies look very good at 5 weeks (ears not really down yet).  

Agreed re the push off if they don't listen to you!    Your puppies - your decision who has them and I also totally agree that the 'good home' (pet) comes first.   If the dog turns out good enough to show, that's a bonus.  Same goes for the one the breeder keeps    LOL.

All you can really do is make it clear that you pick first, then they get next pick (perhaps get them to make 1st and 2nd choice?). Then make it clear and perhaps put it in writing in the sales info that although this puppy has no major disqualifying faults you can't guarantee his quality as an eventual show dog. It's great that they want to try showing, but in a way you don't want to have a fantastic dog as your first ever dog, I had one of these and I held him back a lot particularly in the first couple of years with my lack of handling technique. Make it clear you are selling a reasonable potential dog with no promises. I'm sure they will love him to bits and be thrilled with their first rosettes!

I had a lovely couple come to meet me and view my puppies, they picked a puppy boy with my help, (pet only) then they saw all our rosettes etc and said oh maybe we would like to show. I explained that they might want to re think the pup they had chosen as he was lacking in spots and would be better to have one of the other boys, but they had fallen in love with him and said they probably would never show him. They went away to think about it and called me to say they liked him and wanted him more than they wanted to show, so off he went at 8 weeks old, much loved. At 6 months old he was in the ring and qualified for Crufts!! He will never be a big winner but they are happy with their boy.
So, as long as you explain that you cannot guarantee a successful show dog (and who can!) then I can't see a problem unless they have major faults.  

I told my breeder I wanted to try showing when I first contacted her about a pup and was told straight away that there pups/adults are first and foremost pets and that showing was an added bonus, and that they could advise me which pup they think would be better show potential but could not guarantee she would mature to be show quality.
I wanted her as a companion anyway so even if she wasn't good enough to show it wouldn't have bothered me.

They picked her for me at 6 weeks.

I think you should be glad they told you! I got caught out years ago when a family came to me for a pet bitch. a family pet but mostly to be the companion of a 13 year old girl. I had 2 pretty bitches and 2 not so. Nothing wrong, nice temperaments etc just plainer. Well I encouraged them to look at the plainer bitches as I knew we were keeping and would naturally prefer the second best being left too. They loved the pup and took her. imagine my horror to find several months later the pup being shown, and what's more straight in at champ level! Other people in the breed must have wondered why I encouraged it as she was clearly a pet but they never mentioned it at all. If they had then I would have sold them something else entirely better suited.
The way I see things is that if someone hadn't sold us our first bitch we wouldn't be where we are now.
She may only do local shows and find its not for her or to do more is too expensive. That puppy is still in the fabulous home you vetted. Or you may have given that child the first foot up in a hobby that will last her whole life and she will never forget you for it.
Most people when they start to show don't go out with a champion do they?
I remember how thrilled I was at our first show and we got VHC. The rosette went on the wall and we took numerous photos of dog and prize. Truthfully it probably thrilled us as much as making up a champion and you could give that to this family.
You thought it a good home, what has changed really?

One of the boys I sold was to a pet home, nice dog but out of standard and a bit too leggy, I was honest with the couple and said he would make a beautiful family pet.

9 months later he was out in the show ring, he did quite well with a RCC and a few RBOB at champ shows, qualified for a prestigious breed specific event and a BIS, however he hasn't been placed recently.

The couple were a bit down as he hasn't won for a while but I pointed out that he was never really sold as show potential and with that in mind they had in fact done incredibly well. (I am now very good friends with this couple)

I always say to people that you will get out of the dog what you put in, if a person wants to show by all means give it a go and see how they get on, if they don't win at the end of the day they still have a fab family pet. Yes I like to win a ribbon but to be honest I tend to just go to the shows to meet up with friends and have a nice lunch, if I or my friends do well its a bonus. That way I never feel cheated :) 

Let the family have some fun with the puppy, I think they are just very excited :).