Am so upset that I should probably wait a bit before writing but here goes anyway.
My brother has just told me this when I phoned to wish him a Happy Birthday. His wife's nephew is gamekeeper on a big estate which regularly hosts tourists who wish to participate in shoots. One shoot was hosting Middle Eastern tourists -not sure which Arab state and one man shot his dog in cold blood , in front of everyone just because the dog did not obey his commands. I cannot believe that this went unreported and that others on the shoot acquiesced
Surely the standards of care towards animals that we in this country support  should also apply in such situations.
I did not ask my brother where this occurred. Frankly, I was so shaken that I felt I did not want to know. All I wish for now is that the perpetrator of this barbaric act is never allowed near a dog again and that these shoots put animal welfare above profit.

When I read the title of your post I expected to read about an accidental shooting, but to shoot a dog in cold blood is just horrific. Poor, poor dog. :(

Surely that would come under cruelty?  How could no-one report that :-(  Tourist or not, if they're in our country they should abide by our laws.  Horrific.

OMG that is truly horrific !

Good god !...what a vile and pathetic person !.

I wonder if the poor dog actually belonged to the estate ?, rather than belonging to the creep who shot it.

Would a 'Middle Eastern' tourist be able to bring a dog in on a pet passport?   If not, whose dog was it really ?  Or is the tourist a resident in this country?

I can understand why this wasn't reported, it would mean financial ruin for whoever reported a very rich client for animal cruelty, so expediency would take precedence.

However, I don't know how they can square that with their conscience, providing they have one.   And there are laws in this country regarding the treatment of animals, which in this case seem to have been broken. 

Personally, I can't believe that anyone would think it acceptable to do nothing :(

This is one example of how very differently middle easterners think to westerners :(

Very depressing how this could be allowed without repercussions :(

> Surely that would come under cruelty? 

Quite possibly not actually. I remember a case a few years ago where a neighbour killed someones dog by hitting it with a spade. the dog was killed instantly. the RSPCA refused to prosecute saying because the dog died instantly there was no pain and suffering caused to the dog therefore not cruelty!!!!!

but to shoot a dog in cold blood is just horrific

Maybe but in some countries or the entire continent of India for example they would be more appalled to a much higher degree about how we treat some animals, in parts of india some monkeys are classed as gods, let alone 'poor' animals, I saw on TV a monkey of some sort had fallen onto the pavement and killed itself, the locals started arranging flowers and a whole range of religious rituals on the spot for what we would call its body, compare that to dog or cat dead in the street/road here & they are uncerimoniously slung in the back of council truck to be incinerated, I never heard any complaints about that proceedure.

As far as foreign tourists learning our laws before they come is a very ill conceived thought, there is probably no other nationality on the planet which shows such little regard when abroad for local laws & cultural norms when in foreign countries than us Brits....
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That's what I was thinking Dill, I can't imagine someone bringing over their Gundog from the Arab States just for a holiday, and it is quite normal for an estate to use their own dogs.

I wonder if it is against the law though, vile as it is, it may be that as long as it was done quickly and the dog didn't suffer, there would be no crime, unless the estate made a complaint. Just thinking back to the greyhounds that were killed with a captive bolt gun.

>Would a 'Middle Eastern' tourist be able to bring a dog in on a pet passport?

In my experience, dogs on commercial shoots belong to the beaters and other shoot staff.

Just thinking back to the greyhounds that were killed with a captive bolt gun.

Yes I remember that & that was the British RSPCA who did it.
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Jan, as I'm sure he probably knows ( and I don't envy him) but your Nephew has witnessed (?) or has knowledge of several illegal acts not least:
1)Section 4 Animal Welfare Act - which would be brought by the RSPCA

2) But also shooting a dog also gives rise to potential firearms difficulties for the Estate.If a rifle or other section 1 firearm has been used, then, unless one of the conditions on which the certificate was granted covers such use, which is extremely unlikely in this instance!!!, there is a real risk of prosecution for failing to comply with the certificate conditions - which would be brought about by the local Police Force

I hope those in possession of the facts do the right thing here. 

On another point, I have attended many shoots (Pheasant,Grouse,Duck...) on many different Estates (through my connection with BASC) from childhood to adulthood and have flown Falcons in Saudi and worked dogs, I have to say my experience is VERY different to Dills statement and I found a great and deep rooted respect for working animals in the 'Middle Easterners' who kindly allowed me to go out with them. When I was in Saudi and Jordan the working animals were treated better than the staff! It's a shame one vile person can tar so many others in our sport.

Such a sick story but it just goes to show the differences between some cultures and others.  

I'd bet the dog didn't belong to this man, if he was a visitor, and really the issue here would be between this man, and the Estate/dog owner.   Yes it should be 'reported' but who to?    Are the RSPCA going to want to be involved.   The police - to do with the firearms situation?

I'm afraid it rather looks as if this has to remain between the man and the Estate putting on the shoot.  If the dog was a good one, leaving aside the cruelty aspect, he'd have a value which the Estate would be entitled to claim for.  And ban this individual from joining any future events - but again money???    Would they?

I'm more appalled that no-one on the shoot thought to phone the police/RSPCA about the incident.

> but it just goes to show the differences between some cultures and others

It may not have anything to do with a different culture :( Some people just have bad tempers and will treat animals and people similarly if they just don't do what the person wants .....:(

Talking to No 1 son who occasionally shoots (and accompanies those who can afford to attend the big shoots) he says that were this to happen at any of the shoots he has attended, the gun (dog owner) would have his gun confiscated and would have been escorted off the shoot - and not very politely!

At one shoot, a gun kicked his dog because it mangled a retrieved bird - and he was ordered off the shoot and told that his custom would no longer be welcome on that particular estate.

Talking to No 1 son who occasionally shoots (and accompanies those who can afford to attend the big shoots) he says that were this to happen at any of the shoots he has attended, the gun (dog owner) would have his gun confiscated and would have been escorted off the shoot - and not very politely!

At one shoot, a gun kicked his dog because it mangled a retrieved bird - and he was ordered off the shoot and told that his custom would no longer be welcome on that particular estate.

Thank you for all your replies. I've been crying as I walked my dogs around the forest. Still cannot believe that this could happen in the UK in such circumstances. I never thought that it could be the perpetrator's own dog -always assumed trained dogs are lent out on these occasions. Dreadful crime either way.

Some people will turn a blind eye to anything if they are paid enough money !!

>Just thinking back to the greyhounds that were killed with a captive bolt gun

The final straw for me.  It's why I will never donate to the RSPCA again.  I had only ever heard of captive bolt being used on large livestock before this.

It's a shame that somebody didn't discharge their gun "accidently" towards the animal that did this.  I've no time at all for anyone, male or female, that cannot control their anger.

Not as common as it used to be but I think that sheep farmers are still legally allowed to shoot dogs that are worrying their sheep.
Different circumstances but same method of killing so presumably not against the law ?

> The final straw for me.  It's why I will never donate to the RSPCA again.  I had only ever heard of captive bolt being used on large livestock before this.

You didn't hear of this, then....?
RSPCA puts down 10 German Shepherds with bolt gun

Yes Ms Temeraire, it was this that originally stopped me from having any regard for the RSPCA.  At work it was often called a cattle gun.  I don't find that acceptable for a pet animal.  If anyone likes to look at this on Wikipedia, it doesn't make pleasant reading.

>Not as common as it used to be but I think that sheep farmers are still legally allowed to shoot dogs that are worrying their sheep. <br />Different circumstances but same method of killing so presumably not against the law ?

Not the same method.  They are allowed to shoot a dog, not scramble its brain.

HG I'm with you on this one, you've covered the points very well and to tar a whole group of people with the same brush from where they come from is appalling!
I can't say any more but I echo your words!

I am in total agreement with suejaw and with HG and her comments from an knowledgeable and experienced point of view. It gets us know where putting a whole group of people together just because one does such a despicable act.
I do hope some sort of recriminations can be shown to teat awful person who did this.

Jan, I always think in stories like this that maybe bits get missed out, I always think if you are not there you don't know for sure what really happened, it's a story via your sister-in-laws nephew and things get shortened or missed in translation, was he there? I just can't see how any estate with working dogs would allow anyone to shoot or at the very least get away with shooting one of their dogs, money might talk but the dogs are part of the business, time and effort put into training, not for people to shoot if disappointed with the performance.

I also cannot believe that any Englishman would not get extremely irate if someone did that, after all we love our animals usually more than people.

If the nephew was out alone (though generally not the case on a shoot) with the group, maybe he felt intimidated by the group and said nothing himself, who knows?

I would be very surprised if the estate owner has not blown his top, if things happened that way.

But then again, people do not always react the way we think they might.  Sorry for your distress, it is very upsetting, the poor dog.

>I have to say my experience is VERY different to Dills statement and I found a great and deep rooted respect for working animals in the 'Middle >Easterners' who kindly allowed me to go out with them

I am very glad to hear it and happy to be proved wrong about this.   However, my belief that animals were treated with less respect, was based on friends who used to live in Saudi.  Admittedly, they didn't hunt or fly falcons, they mixed with the more general population.

We pick up a lot, and I mean a lot, on various shoots in the south.    I can honestly say that I have only seen people have  the greatest respect for their dogs and their quarry.

BUT there was a story, on sound authority, about a team of guns from an arab country who came with their manservants.   The birds were not allowed to be retrieved by the dogs (unclean?) or the women pickers' uppers (also unclean???).      Hence the manservants, who would run out and pick up the birds, and cut their throats (halal??).   Sorry if this upsets anyone as  much as it upset me.
The team were not invited back again.

Maybe this  poor unfortunate dog maybe went to pick a bird up, in such a situation, with awful consequences

Jo

Maybe this  poor unfortunate dog maybe went to pick a bird up, in such a situation, with awful consequences

That makes perfect sense, in the Indian TV case I mentioned about the dead monkey being given local religious rites, based on belief, & in the case of this dog also given cultural religious rites, also based on belief, - so is religious conflict the issue & not 'humane' or 'inhumane' personality attributes.
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