Can anyone advise I have 2 patterdales a dog who is 6 and a bitch who is 3 the dog is neutered the bitch is not both are very loving affectionate dogs but lately the bitch will attach the male to the point if I don't intervene she does serious damage she goes totally mental iv even broke the sweeping brush hitting her to separate them,  then afyer all the commotion it's like it never happened why would she do this? ?

First things first, straight to the vet for both of them if this is a new problem.  Aggression doesn't just happen - often there is an underlying medical issue (make sure the vet does a thorough exam and blood tests incl. thyroid), pain can be an issue too even in a young dog.

Next, I think you should get a professional in to observe them.  This isn't just handbags by the sound of it - if she's doing damage, you need someone extremely proficient in canine body language and behaviour to work out exactly what's going on.  This will include going through the dogs' history, any previous medical problems, identifying possible triggers for fights, routine, feeding, etc etc.  Any training done after that MUST be positive based - any use of punishment of any kind (verbal or physical) WILL make things worse.  Calm, quiet, pleasant is the way forward.

We can do some on here but with a situation like this, it really is crucial that you get someone in first hand to observe them.  It could be that there are triggers you're missing (these can be very small, not necessarily obvious or, it could be numerous small ones building until a fight erupts), or that tensions have been rising for a while and things are coming to a head.  But, vet trip first.

One last thing - hitting her with a brush in a fight will not help.  When dogs are fighting, endorphins and adrenalin are raging and both block pain and external stimuli - at best they won't even feel the brush, at worst it'll be associated with the other dog and they will fight harder.  That may happen at the time, or it may mean the next fight is worse because they're anticipating being hit and thinking the other dog is the trigger for that (which in a way, it is) - so they are more likely to fight in the first place.  The best thing you can do is try to steer them towards a door and shut it between them.

Yet again why do people take the bait with these wind ups

Because it might not be a wind up! And even if it is, then the reply might be helpful to someone else. Most people who post on here do their best to help out other dog owners ...

Disagree this usually happens when the kids are off school and I'd rather ignore these time wasters.Incidentally I did not mean to appear unkind to Nikita who took the time to post advice in good faith.

why a wind up ? and the kids arnt off school.

Is this not the weekend ?

They have both been to vets and they are very healthy dogs all the vets advised was a dog trainer but at the moment I cant afford one there is nothing that has changed in lifestyle or anything else that I can think of that would bother her as I say she is fine for weeks then just turns and I had to hit her with the brush as she had hold of the males face and I could not prize her jaw open .I have them at the moment separate and they get out in the garden together she is muzzled same on walks I just thought someone could give me some advice on here seen as I can't afford a dog trainer? 

Nikita has given you excellent advice. It would be irresponsible to go dispensing behaviour advise without seeing the dogs first-hand in situ. If your vet has after thorough examination confidently discounted any underlying medical issue then a behaviourist and not a trainer is the way to go, although any decent behaviourist will also be a good trainer.

If your dogs are insured it is possible that this will cover consultation fees- check out the UKRCB and APBC sites for someone near you- some do a sliding scale for fees.

Just as a matter of interest is does your castrated male get a lot of interest from intact male dogs? That is trying to hump him etc.. At what age was he castrated? Has your bitch had any phantoms, does she get very moody around her seasons, does she guard objects, putting them in her bed and so forth?

If she's fine for weeks then possibly it is a niggling issue(s) building up to breaking point - in that situation the fight then breaks the tension and it starts all over again.  With one of mine the stress built up that way until she was unable to cope, got very ill for a week then recovered (the cause of stress in her case being the owners' handling and training methods, so the week of illness gave her a break from that and the stress levels dropped back down again), then the cycle started over.

It's always worth asking behaviourists what they charge, whether they'd do instalments etc - we all work differently.  Some charge hundreds, I charge very little (too little really!) but rather than do one visit and a report then phone/email followup support, I like to do the assessment then follow-up visits to make sure things are on track.  So I charge small amounts at a time, which many people find more manageable.

> although any decent behaviourist will also be a good trainer.

This.  The two are inseperable in my mind but in this situation, you must get a behaviourist to be sure you're getting the scope of knowledge required.  Definitely check insurance if you have it, many will cover behavioural consults.

In the meantime, what do you feed them?  This can make a big difference.  And one training tip I will give - reward anything and everything that is NOT aggression/tension in any form.  So if he walks by and she does nothing (and I mean nothing - no stiffness, staring, whites of the eyes, licking lips, deliberately ignoring him), praise and reward.  If you can see her starting to get tense because he's doing something, move him away or if she's put herself in a position she's not comfortable with, encourage her to move (or again, move him if that will calm things down the safest way).  Keep a diary too - record anything that happens to either dog, any bad interactions with other dogs/people/kids, anything that frightens them etc as all of those things can have an effect at home.  And at home - body language, presence of food/toys/you, anything really.  You might be able to identify triggers that way, then you can manage them.

I would also start to get yourself familiar with calming signals and stressful body language - plenty of info out there on the net, videos on youtube etc.  The better you can read your dogs, the more you will be able to see potential situations beginning and diffuse them long before anything actually happens.  Prevention is better than cure as they say, and nowhere is that more true than when dealing with aggression in dogs.

Incidentally - how thorough was the vet?  I have known many give a dog a once-over and declare them fit and it is not enough.  A proper physical exam with manipulation of joints and comprehensive blood tests including thyroid is what's needed.  So much can be missed otherwise, as my own dogs have shown me numerous times - in particular my first rescue dog was diagnosed with a touch of arthritis in one hip, when in reality her whole pelvis was tilted and twisted and she had several misaligned vetebrae, all of which made her aggression much worse.  And one of my others started snapping at dogs - totally unheard of for her, she's the best dog I have for teaching others and NEVER snaps - the vet missed it completely but by chance, when she went on painkillers for something else some time after the snapping started, we found she had low-level pain which I now know is arthritis.

yes but I never count weekends for trolling. Still cant see why this could be a wind up anymore than a lot of posts

We have 2 Patts, a male and a female but they are best mates and have never had a cross word ( so to speak) How long have the dogs been together? Is it at feed time or any specific time ( what are they doing when it happens) could it be over a possession? there are so many things that could set it off.
Patts can be feisty little dogs so they should not be left alone together if a fight is likely ( again this is not a problem we have ever had, but mine were litter mates and have been together since birth )
It is worth trying to find the money for a behaviourist as without seeing the dogs we really cannot advise what you should do. I agree that hitting with a brush is the worst thing you can do, they are only small dog ( I know they are strong) but a hose of cold water may give a second or two to split them up, enough time to pick one up and put it through a door to separate them.
Good luck, but please do look for professional help before major damage is inflicted.