I am looking for experience and guidance of others on this subject please.

Wookee, 8 month old Briard. He is my third Briard and I have shared my life with dogs in general for the last 40 years, I try and adapt to suit each individual dog as no one size fits all and of course, no matter how long we have owned dogs, there is always more to learn.

He is at a very frustrating teenage stage and from experience this will continue, one way or another for at least 3 years. He is a typical pup, loves EVERYONE and everything. I also have another older Briard who is 9 and if he could, he would play constantly with her. Understandably, she has her limits and tells him off when he has gone too far. Both her and I are feeling exasperated by him and today she bit him very hard, drew blood on him yet he still went bowling back in for more! He seems to have such a thick skin, metaphorically speaking and literally.

He is very large now (40 kilos already) and his head rests on my hip when we walk. Most people will not accept that he is still a pup because of his size. He went to training classes up until he was 6 months old and although another story, he was not appreciated with his playing tactics by any of us and the trainer was out of her depth when advising on him, she showed no understanding of a dog of his character whatsoever and it got to the stage where she would no longer allow him to mix freely, which of course, caused him great frustration. He is very rough and is just too full on for other dogs but there has never been any aggression from him.

When out walking, if he sees another dog, he rears up on his hind legs and just wants to play. His body language is open, he is almost smiling and his excitement gets the better of him. Like any 8 month old Briard, he has absolutely no self control. Understandably, this is not welcomed by either the other dogs or owners. I do not let him off lead in public places as it would be dangerous. He would more than likely hurt someone accidentally by knocking them and or their dogs over.

If and when we see another dog, we pull over and I put him in the sit position. I am using a toy, sometimes treats and a watch me command. He is having none of it. He doesn't make a sound but tries as hard as he can to get to them. Other dogs tend to keep away from him, or if they do come over, he just wants to play, he jumps on them, bows down with his behind in the air and then, if he had his way, game on. But this is when they retreat or growl at him. I know if he were off lead, apart from showing bad manners, that this could likely end in trouble and although he is over the top and wants to play, conversely, I don't want him to learn that other dogs are to be feared or worse, for him to start getting aggressive upon meeting them as this then will have lifelong consequences. I have this with my bitch, she is still not happy around other dogs all these years later as a result of being attacked when she was 6 months old. She is fine with dogs that she knows but not strangers.

I have looked into socialisation classes, so these are an option if I could ever find the right one. The last one was a Gwen Bailey puppy school class and then the intermediate one that followed. He needs a controlled environment where he has guidance. Although he is not listening to a word that is said to him right now and all of his training has gone out of the window, the juvenile months and years are very testing at times. In saying that, he is very sensitive and if you use a stern expression with him he will back off as if he has been physically hit, which I can assure you, has never been the case, although he does get me incredibly frustrated at times, in these cases, I walk away from him and give us both a cooling off period. Unfortunately, right now he is the "class clown" and although other people think he is wonderful, it is exhausting living with him full time Lol. He does get stimulation when indoors, he has puzzle toys that we play together, I hide some of his food in the garden (quite large garden) so he has to find it. He likes to chew his toys, kongs etc. He never stops.

I suppose I am asking if what I have said and am thinking is along the right lines. We all doubt ourselves at times, no matter how often we have done something. I know he will calm down eventually but right now, the excitement level is so high and I can't let him go too silly when off lead in the field as he is still growing so exercise has to be limited. As I have said, he is a sweetheart with everyone, including my small animals, horses, I don't want to ruin his fun but also, I need to teach him self control as I am clearly doing something wrong. Someone in my breed once said, you never tell a Briard what to do, you ask them, their propensity for stubbornness is well known and they always think they they know best. Asking doesn't seem to work though either...

I have a similar, though less extreme, situation with my 8 month old very friendly Golden pup.
She started to zoom off when she spotted people or people with a dog (even better) and I then started keeping her on a long lead more until her recall in those situations, improves.
Does he ever get to play with another dog other then your own? How is he if he has a play buddy to run with when there are lots of other dogs about? My pup is fairly polite in dog to dog greetings, but will up the anti if the other dog is receptive to play, giving play bows etc and with the agreement of the owner, she has had some fun, short playtimes. I've found that when I start to walk away and call her to me, her attachment to me has strengthened enough that she chooses to come with me. That little bit of play with a dog has been enough to keep her happy and she wants to continue with the walk. Would that work with your Briard? On another occasion I met up with a friend to walk the our dogs together and we went somewhere new to me which was very busy, full of people many walking dogs. I must admit I was rather apprehensive when I let my pup off as I thought she would run up to everyone to greet them and perhaps go off with someone else's dog. However, her new playmate took precedence and although she greeted a large number of dogs, she happily came away with us out of choice. Do you have someone who you could walk with to see if your Briard could get the oppourtunity to meet other dogs, but stay with you and his playmate.
These are just a couple of suggestions really and just my experience with an uber friendly pup. You seem to me to be doing the right sort of things. I went to puppy training classes for a while, but my pup was causing a riot every time we tried any off lead work. I'm now going to a trainer along with my pups litter brother. Just the two of us trying to work on recall of our dogs in situations where it's hard work. We are working on the theory that if we can get our pups to separate from playing and come to us, we should be well down the road to a good recall.

The one thing that springs out to me -isn't the point of training classes to teach a pup to concentrate on you and IGNORE distractions, which will include other dogs? I would not be happy with a class where the dogs were encouraged to mix. If anything it would just teach the pup to keep heading towards other dogs when out. I have had two pups like you describe -although smaller! The first a Cavalier who believed all other dogs where there for him to play with, the second my half working bred Malinois who is large for her breed, extremely strong and like your dog, find it very hard to find dogs that DON'T get fed up with her as she is just TOO strong and full on. But with the exception of one dog at training club, I never allowed her to do anything but say hello briefly, she had to learn to concentrate on me. Same with the Cavalier. They both got there in the end. :) Socialising with other dogs does NOT have to mean playing. To me it would mean being comfortable around other dogs -not scared, not aggressive, and learning how to behave around them.

I think this is really tricky for you. The best would be for him to have some free interaction with pups of the same siz and weight as him. We already know that adult dogs are probably going to tell him off because he is too OTT, so in any interactions with adult dogs he should be controlled. At least your bitch will be giving him some messages in that direction.

I would not let him off lead with pups of smaller breeds or adult dogs of smaller breeds. I just think they have to be viewed as off limits for now. If he begins to show some self control and the ability to stop a game in his interactions with large breed pups of his own age, then you could consider very brief, controlled exposure to pups and adults of smaller breeds.

He does need to have normal play with pups but make darn sure they are as confident and the same size and weight. Be prepared to step in and stop things if it goes too far. I'd keep interactions short and sweet but lots of them...if possible.

Some pups just don't develop and off switch for a long time and it looks like you've got one...life is just fun, fun, fun.

I'd focus as much time as possible on building up his self control with impulse control exercises and games, as you are doing. Just keep at it.  Use watch, leave, asks for sits and downs, waits, stays for anything. In a nutshell, you really want a learn to earn type set up .View it as slowly growing a tree or bush that does not yet exist...it's his impulse control circuitry that does not yet exist in any great way. The fact that he is exquisitely sensitive to a bad look from you gives you something strong to work with.

He needs to be in class because he needs controlled exposure to lots of different dogs and to learn that just because a dog is close does not make them his personal plaything.

I know this does not help that much but I think you are going to have to ask around for other pups of the same age, size and weight for him to play with.

He is also entering adolescence where the developing brain has so many new things to process that earlier information, including puppy obedience, gets pushed to one side. Just keep at it, put loads of effort into control exercises making all games with you or dogs start/stop, start/stop. Also watch him with young intact males and especially adult intact males.

He is so confident and gregarious that he will probably grow up into the best dog ever.

Yes I agree as that is what we did with Bog (unsocialised hooligan large  rescue lab)

We found some matches in height weight and let him play and have a good run round.

With that I worked independently on his recall and then joined the two together gradually so that he could be out the lead but be recalled if I feel the on coming dogs are out of hounds for playing with.

He is now very good and is very good with introducing himself to humans and dogs off lead.

On lead ...... Still WIP but getting there with distraction and reward !

Thank you everyone, such a good response and very constructive advice.

I think that the training classes were meant to get them used to mixing with other dogs as well as getting them to focus on the owner. After all, from what I have seen and attended in previous years, they tend to try and concentrate every experience a dog will encounter down into about 6 weeks, 12 if you are lucky!

freelancer, your advice is so very useful and valuable...Thank you! The problem that I need to overcome is finding pups of the same size, weight etc as him to socialise with. We live in a very rural area, don't have any doggy friends and the only other dogs in the area are much smaller than him.

>Some pups just don't develop and off switch for a long time and it looks like you've got one...life is just fun, fun, fun.

You are spot on with this assessment! I have never had one that is quite so full on...for example, he is in the lounge with me chewing his tugga, I head for the door to take out a cup, he goes straight for the door, I tell him to go back and wait. He immediately leaps up on his hind legs and barks, I tell him to sit, he won't sit...I stand at the door repeating "sit". He sits for 10 seconds and is up and barging out the door, everything flying around, just as I have got it open. Yes, he is a pup but I have been trying to enforce manners from the beginning. I am not a disciplinarian and don't go with pack leader mentality of training but I do want manners.

I will see what I can do and find regarding socialising him with others of a similar type but in the meantime I will keep up with his self control exercises and try not to pull all of my hair out and keep repeating to myself, "it is a stage we are going through" Lol - thank you once again for this, you have really helped me to focus on what he needs.

Hp, I know what you mean but no one more than you will know that this powerful herding breed, ready equipped with a strong guard instinct, need consistent and clear boundaries and leadership or they make their own minds up, so I would not be worried about being firm, he sounds as though he needs a kindly but firm and clear approach. Good luck. It'll be fun hearing how you get on and you can look back on this very trying time with a wry smile.

Lol freelancer, yes, I will no doubt look back on this period with a wry smile. Sure that my old boy, who I lost last year was similar 11 years ago when a similar age but somehow we seemed to understand each other much more quickly than Wookee and I do. He definitely needs a kindly but firm approach but as normal, the minute you relax with him he pushes those boundaries to the limit. I praise him for many, many small good behaviours and yet, when this happens, he immediately goes and attacks my big girl. It is as if he thinking "Mum thinks I'm such a good boy, I can now go and be a moron" Lol *sigh*

I will gather up my understanding yet again for tomorrow and we will start all over again, until we finally are BOTH happy ;-)