Hi everyone, I have a dog and two bitches who have all lived together since they were each 8 weeks old.
My boy has always howled and made a nightmare of a fuss when the bitches are in season, trying to get at them, and this year, he was allowed to have his way with my girl.  They have produced a lovely litter of four puppies recently so I know he is fertile and able to Perform.

I used him for stud in November and he was very reluctant, although he did mate the bitch in the end...one slip mating and one 12 minute tie.  The woman now tells me her bitch isn't pregnant and I assumed she must have brought her at the wrong time seeing as my dog has done the deed succesfully.  However, I now have my friends bitch here who I've had from day 3 of her season so that he can become familiar with her being around, in case that was why he was unhappy before.  He tried to mount her a couple of times when she first arrived but she yipped and he backed off but she still had full colour so I assumed she wasn't ready for him. Today is about day ten or eleven we think and he isn't showing any interest in her at all.
With my bitch, he wouldn't leave her side and had her three times in one day and he was liked a conjoined twin with her!! 
Is it common for a dog to be this reluctant? :(

He no doubt KNOWS what he is doing and the bitch isn't ready yet. With my last mating, the first time I used my own dog, I tried on day 9, no interest, day 10, got a mating and tie, day 11, 12, and 13 -no interest from dog at all despite very flirty bitch. Got a good mating and tie again on days 14 and 16. When we scanned the vet said she would say the bitch took from the later matings. So the first one was just over excitement from the dog's side, he then realised it was pointless and waited until the time was right. I have seen this happen before.

Would be too early for mine and we currently have a successful mating ( so far) from a first mating 17 days.

When the breeder of one of my dogs took her bitch to the stud dog at what seemed the right time, neither were interested. In the end, progesterone testing was done and they mated on day 31! (10 puppies were produced).

In my breed many males , especially ones that have already been used or are older refuse to mate a bitch until she is spot on, and often this means they will only mate her on one to three days (the actual most fertile ones), it's often the young/inexperienced males that will mate any bitch that will stand still long enough, so be thankful that you have such a boy who knows his timings, and the bitch who missed may have been too early or even, as he was half hearted, may not have ovulated at all.

I had this with one of mine on her last litter, the male was just not very keen, mated her half heartedly, and she missed, the next season, even though she had a split season, he was much keener and we had a lovely litter.

Her daughter had been mated to him two years earlier, but as he was showing no interest up to day 16, she was progesterone blood tested, and this showed that on day 17 she had not yet ovulated, but was close, he happily mated her on day 18 - 20, so I knew he was to be trusted.

Yes.    If the bitch isn't ready.   Fact is no two bitches are the same - days 10 through 14 is only a guide.  If he's already been used a couple of times, then he's not a novice and should now know whether it's worth wasting his time.   It is possible, with families where males live with bitches who have up to the time they are in season, put him in his place, for a male to be reluctant to push his luck, and best practice is to separate the intended partners until you see her tailing.   Then introduce them and if she is ready, it should all go to plan.   Sometimes a mating, however well planned, just isn't meant to be.   And I had a male who definitely preferred blondes - truly.   If presented with a tri, he wasn't near as keen as with a bicolour.

We drove 12 hours to use a stud I wanted, only to find he wasn't the least bit keen to mate with her - and actually she WAS right on.   In the end she stuck her bum at him, sat down and visibly sighed.    We took them to their vet the next morning, checked her and did an AI (allowed in Canada where we were at the time) which at least resulted in 5 puppies!!   So all was not lost even if I'd have preferred to see a natural mating.

Woweeeee!!  All is not lost then....the bitch is flagging today though and he colour is turning toward pink so hopefully he will do the deed when HE thinks she is ready xx

Thanks everyone, today is only day 13 as far as we know and I am keeping her for the entire season so hopefully, it will happen eventually.
Will let you know xxx

Just a thought....I have read somewhere that if you need to "assist" a dog and bitch to mate, it my be that you would need to stimulate a dog manually(yuk!).  But if only humans and Dolphins do it for pleasure...how would that work?
Not that I'm getting desperate you understand LOL.  Today is day 14 and still no interest from my dog although the bitch is flagging....she has also lost her colour so is definitely ready.  I can hardly believe this when before he mated with my own girl, both maidens, he used to howl all day and night to get to her!!
Ah...there's my answer...both maidens! LOL  He's gay!!  Tee hee.

Never found colour of discharge meant anything, if anything mine show more colour after mating.

For most of mine day 14 would be early/ too early, and with wise studs I have generally found the bitch keen for  two or three days before the dog would mate them.

Just a thought....I have read somewhere that if you need to "assist" a dog and bitch to mate, it my be that you would need to stimulate a dog manually(yuk!).

I would go as far as to say that if you need to assist in getting the dog INTERESTED, then the bitch isn't ready and any more or less forced mating would not result in pups anyway. But surely you know that if you are experienced enough to actually offer a dog at stud?

No I'm not very experienced but I used my own dog with my own bitch and I am keeping a friends dog for her season in the hope that they will mate.

The question about assisting is purely out of interest as I am trying to learn about these things in more depth.  Frankly I can't see myself assisting but would like to know how it works.

I've never known anyone to have to manually stimulate a dog in an attempt to achieve a mating. That would suggest that the bitch isn't ready and so to force the issue would be a huge mistake. Sometimes a little guidance is needed when an over-excited dog (usually inexperienced) has trouble hitting the spot, but certainly no stimulation is needed.

Why not progesterone test the bitch to get an accurate day for mating?  All this guess work is going to frustrate and possibly deter the male and be detrimental to him long term, not to mention the bitch will also get fed up.

I simply cannot understand why he won't mate with her.  With my own bitch, he wouldn't leave her alone and mated with her four times in three days!!!  He wouldn't leave her side either, so much so his coat got all matted from his insistence on following her 24/7 literally side by side LOL

If she were my bitch I would get her tested but I fear the optimum time has now passed.

I simply cannot understand why he won't mate with her.  With my own bitch, he wouldn't leave her alone and mated with her four times in three days!!!  He wouldn't leave her side either, so much so his coat got all matted from his insistence on following her 24/7 literally side by side LOL

1. Because she isn't ready which we have said several times now. She may not be ready for days yet 2. Does the above mean you are keeping them TOGETHER, like you did with your own bitch? Not a good idea for so many reasons. Split them up and ONLY allow them supervised access for the half an hour or so each day you check if the bitch is ready or not. Then once you have a mating, SPLIT THEM UP again until 24-48 hours later. Unlimited matings is NOT the way to go.

> Unlimited matings is NOT the way to go.

So agree. Just because one has both dogs it should be controlled & not allowed to just carry on whatever.

If she were my bitch I would get her tested but I fear the optimum time has now passed.

If the owner of the bitch isn't experienced, then it's up to you as the owner of the stud dog to have the knowledge and experience to advice them.

Thanks everyone again.   Yes I did keep them together the way I did with my own bitch but my dog wouldn't touch her  at any price. 
I took my friends bitch back to her as she decided to use her sister in laws dog on her instead as my dog didn't appear interested, the dog walked through the door and quite literally sniffed my friends bitch then mounted her!!  I think she was ready!!  LOL
They got two slip matings and a 20 minute tie later that same night.

Interesting though that you advocate keeping them apart...as I've said, I am not experienced but I'm learning and i shall certainly keep this in mind for the future although I don't intend to breed very often.

Thanks again everyone

So which stud dog was the best match for the bitch?

The most willing :-)

I'm biting my tongue here.

Interesting though that you advocate keeping them apart...as I've said, I am not experienced but I'm learning and i shall certainly keep this in mind for the future although I don't intend to breed very often.

Quite apart from the fact that keeping them together will stress out both the dog and the bitch and may make the dog lose interest, it is dangerous to allow a dog and a bitch to be together when in season, other than for the short supervised times. Believe me, once you have had to make a midnight rush to the vet with a dog with a penis dripping with blood because he tied with a bitch unsupervised and the bitch then tried to run off whilst still tied, you will never want to take risks again. (This experience was an accidental mating. It took 3 days before the poor dog stopped bleeding.) Then there is the very real possibility of the bitch panicking and turning on the dog.

I have a bitch that happily allows the dog to mate her, but as the tie establishes absolutely hates it and has twice  rolled 360' (first litter, and current mating for her third)despite being held, not funny as he then picks all four feet up off the ground and your having to turn her back as a dead weight.

Hi I’ve had the same just happen to me our dogs tied day 10 now day 13 he’s not interested I’m hoping like you day 14 he will be interested again
We tried them everyday from day 7 as she wanted to get to him but nothing until day 10 now not interested very strange

You can't expect them to mate every day!
She's probably ovulated hence the tie on day 10.  Not strange at all

She’s was flagging him since day 1 he was not interested until day 10 and Normally once they tie you then get another tie a day or two days after but he’s not one bit interested after the first mating so is a bit odd to get one tie then he’s not interested but she’s still flagging him

Some bitches are tarts, especially if they've had a litter before   Sounds to me like he knew when the time was right, done his job and now he knows she's gone over, time will tell but I'd trust him.

Yes think your right with him knowing and her being a tart just find it odd that he would only tie once when last year they tied several times