I remember a famous US Griffon who was imported from here and cropped over in the States, I thought it was wrong of the breeder then and I still do

The recent success of the Afterglow poodle shows that undocked UK dogs can win top awards in America��

>I believe Switzerland is one country where they won't allow altered dogs in;

From the Swiss import regulations page: "Please note that it is prohibited to import dogs with docked ears and/or cropped tail, exempt are those with owners who live abroad and are coming for holidays or short stays or those relocating to Switzerland.". They cannot be shown, but I can't find any information about a ban on their offspring.

I'm sure you'll find this helpful. Israel seems to be the only other country which won't allow the import of cropped/docked dogs.

I believe Switzerland is one country where they won't allow altered dogs in;

Ohhhh.....don't make that a norm or representive country of any laws, the best thing to do if driving in Euro is drive an extra 1000km around it to avoid driving there or hire a helicopter to fly the car over it, try leaving your engine running if your stopped at lights & you'll be fined on the spot, a nightmare place for drivers who dont know every letter of their traffic laws.
.

>  It is not just OUR dogs that will be disadvantaged, but yours too.

This isn't just on us though.  If you are so concerned about the barrier between the gene pools then perhaps it's time you put your self-centred desires aside for the good of the breed.  You can't have it both ways.

Re. docked breeds - any dogs docked before the ban came into force in April '07 can still be shown at any KC events.  So no, docking didn't exclude a load of dogs, only the ones that were docked after the ban.

Think of how many breeders there are in the U.S. and Canada - all those dogs to choose from!

Yes, and in both my breeds you have usually changed the looks so much I would not want them.

I'm not trying to get a campaign going to make ear cropping legal in the UK. Things were fine until the tail ban was passed! That excludes tons of docked terriers and sporting breeds from UK shows (where the public has to pay).

You are clearly not aware of just how few shows that is. Most decided to charge for car parking instead to get round it.

The problem is debarking doesn't leave a dog unable to make a sound!!    Years ago now, (UK) a Jackie over the back from us who used to bark and bark (as only Jackies can!!) to the point his owners had him operated on.  Result - bark and bark, but not the same noise!!   Kerching for the vet - pointless for the owner and ouch for the dog.

Not about the OP's subject but ......

>to the point his owners had him operated on

The vet could have been censured or even struck off for that.

Debarking has been a prohibited procedure in the UK for many many years along with ear cropping & de clawing , any vet carrying out this procedure is going against the LAW that regulates Veterinary Surgeons !

So you can't call some people trolls but they can call you a 'nutter'

Think everyone else has covered what I would say to the OP. Somewhere on the first page there was something about cropping a dog to be able to show it off, maybe even feel proud..like a car and good clothes ? One assumes  nice clothes and a car proclaims wealth? does cropping cost that much? Very sad someone needs to crop a dog to show off......maybe viagara and a penis inflator would do the trick? or if the OP is female a breast implant and a gut reduction?

Yours

Another Nutter

PS the post re not mutilating kids and the OP scorn of children being compared to dogs and assuming it was being implied that a dog had more worth etc etc..........I would suggest reading in context. No an animal is not the same as a child apart from the fact both can feel pain and rely on their carer to take care of them and keep them free from pain.,.......ok apparently for the kid who lives beyond 15 years but not the dog/possession ....Very Sad

Luna, I objected to being called a troll because it implied that I was lying about my views to deliberately piss people off, when in reality I was expressing my honest feelings about dogs and cropping/docking. You can berate me all you want for wanting beautiful dogs to show off, but this is me. I do NOT beat, or even spank my dogs. They are showered with affection and very well-cared for, so if my reasons for owning dogs include, but are not limited to, wanting to show them off, so be it! No one gets hurt. By the way, the breed I'm interested in, the Dandie Dinmont Terrier, is not cropped or docked, but I still won't stand for any attempts to ban those procedures in the U.S. because I don't want to never again be able to see cropped/docked breeds in their traditional form in the flesh!

I'm struggling to see what the point of this thread is other than to get a rise out of people.

>I'm struggling to see what the point of this thread is other than to get a rise out of people.

Oh I don't know...it serves to show some in all their 'glory'.

I won't communicate with people who are so disrespectful and incapable of adult discussion.

> They are showered with affection and very well-cared for, so if my reasons for owning dogs include, but are not limited to, wanting to show them off, so be it! No one gets hurt.

The dog does!! (if cropped)

"The vet could have been censured or even struck off for that. "

Maybe not, at the time - this was many decades ago now.

>I'm struggling to see what the point of this thread is other than to get a rise out of people.

Well it's giving me quite a laugh! Sad too though of course that anyone would still want to mutilate their dog by cropping. :-(

The OP isn't being persuasive in his/her arguments though, if anything, a few folks on here seem to be even less likely to export to the US ( way to go Poochlover ! ).
I do wonder if the OP has cropped breeds, as they mention it's Dandies they are interested in.

Debarking was banned at the same time as ear cropping !!!!

>I don't want to never again be able to see cropped/docked breeds in their traditional form in the flesh!

Oh dear Poochlover, there's really no helping you is there...

It's interesting though - I genuinely didn't realise that there were people like you who support these practises for purely aesthetic reasons.  Bonkers (in my view) and I'm very pleased to be this side of the pond :)

>Bonkers (in my view) and I'm very pleased to be this side of the pond

Poochlover's certainly doing an excellent job of deterring people from exporting dogs to the US if they're going to be thought of as possessions to show off and surgically altered if they're not deemed 'good enough', and not as sentient beings.

I have exported a Border Collie to USA but they aren't mutilated over there. I would never consider letting one of my Min Pins go and have it's ears and tail cut about. No way it's barbaric! I love their tails, Pip's sticks straight up like a little CB aerial lol

>> Poochlover's certainly doing an excellent job of deterring people from exporting dogs to the US if they're going to be thought of as possessions to show of

yes, I will certainly think twice now about  any enquiries I get from the states. I wouldn't want one of my dogs to end up with someone with an attitude like Pooch lover (now theres a misnomner if ever there was one) even though they are not docked or cropped. Poochlover has apparently achieved the exact opposite to what she intended.

Personally, I won't easily forget one of my trips to the US - most have been to "rural" areas, but I was fairly shocked to see all the cropped dogs in and around Orlando in Florida.

First time I ever saw pet Boxers with ears sculpted in to unnatural shapes, and it does hit you with a ton of "WHY???" bricks!

Having lived in Canada for over 15 years, I kind of got used to seeing cropped dogs.   However, I can't say, other than the terrier breeds, I ever liked the look of a cropped Dane, Boxer or Doberman and so on.   The natural ear gives a much more gentle look.   And seeing puppies blocked just made me weep.   On the other hand, with docking now banned in the UK, back here I can't get used to the look of breeds like the Doberman, Rottie, Boxer, with a full tail.   Perhaps once breeders have figured out what a full tail on these breeds should look like they may look better, but the Boxer with a spindly whippet-like tail, often carried over the back in a hook, just looks, to me, horrible.   The Spaniel breeds look 'better' but again just like a small Setter half the time.   Odd.

I think Celli has a very good point.
Add to that the language of some and the inability to disagree without becoming disagreeable I think this thread has started to consume itself.