Hi, I  am new here looking for advice for my 2 kilo chihuahua. Petria will be 4 yrs old next March. She has always been frightened of a bath, general grooming and nail trimming. My vet prescribed ACP tablets for  when she gets her nails cut. He started her on them when she was 3 years old, and now I think of it thats when she started growling and trying to bite her rear,its not constant,  just a quick growl and bark, tries to attack and its over. This might happen once a day or more. I have seen 4 vets over this none seem to know what is wrong. Last night I think she had a fit, we were in the back yard, suddenly she ran around the grass quickly, I thought she was playing, next thing she fell rolled around couldnt stand. Somehow I got her inside then it got worse, she was quivering shaking and frothing at the mouth. I was so scared, then she got away from me and tried to crawl into where my computer desk is. She hid behind there for ages, growling and didn't want me to touch her. After a long time I finally coaxed her out, then she started running around the house as though hiperactive, seemed to not know what to do. I decided to give her half of the acp to calm her. She finally went to sleep but couldnt bear me to leave her, she was still aware of me not being with her and cried if I got up. Today she is like a drunken sailor, still on my lap. I hate that acp drug, been reading awful things. Do you think this was a seizure?. I am taking her to vet in the morning, I am in Australia and it's Sunday so have to wait till tomorrow.
sorry for long post,
Joan.

Such tiny dogs are often at risk of low blood sugar, (Hypoglycaemia) so that could be a likely cause.

I'd consider this possibility too.    Typical for a dog in a seizure would be to eliminate bowels and bladder.   But whatever is going on, I think you need to be seeing your vet, much as he may well say keep an eye on her and if it happens again, then see him.   Could be this was a one-off.

http://alexadry.hubpages.com/hub/The-use-of-Acepromazine-in-Dogs-and-Cats
This link may help?

To be honest I didn't think ACP even existed still! What I would recommend would be to go to a good behaviourist and work through your dog's problems so not have to resort to such drastic measures for just routine things like nail cutting and grooming.  Somebody who uses kind methods and plenty of rewards.

According to this (I could not find a manufacturer's website with official data sheet) ACP can cause seizures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acepromazine

Datasheet for ACP tablets

>To be honest I didn't think ACP even existed still!

Just over a week ago my spayed bitch underwent surgery to remove a mammary tumour. The Vet phoned shortly after sedating her to say she had fitted and they had bought her round again to stabilise her. I was horrified to hear that ACP was one of the drugs used on her. I too, had thought that ACP was history. After all these years, you would think they would have found something safer by now.

Joanelaine - what you describe does 'sound' like she had some kind of 'turn' but the cause could be a number of things and only a Vet can say for sure. Please, if she does anything like this again, give her some space and don't try to pet or pick her up. Just make sure she is not going to hurt herself and let her be. If it is a seizure, she will not know whom you are and if you get to close, you may very well get bitten. Best to stay in the area she is in, try to remain calm and let her get over it by herself. That way everyone remains safe.

First let me say I do not have very much knowledge of fits/seizures in dogs.

Now, let me say that from what you describe, this could be a state of intense stress/fear brought on by the ACP - it's a downright evil drug.  It relaxes the muscles so that often, the dog cannot move, but remains fully aware; so any fear or stress about a situation remains in full effect, but the dog is unable to do anything about it.  Your dog may not have been on a high enough dosage but there will have been some effect - pointless to prescribe it if there wasn't.

In that state, those emotions will get worse because the dog cannot do enough to alleviate them - so right away, the ACP has made the underlying problem worse.

On top of that, ACP can induce a fear-state all by itself - so if your dog was unfortunate enough to have that heppen, then there's a triple-whammy going on: the original stress, the stress of being physically affected, and the stress caused by the drug.  So it wouldn't susprise me at all if, once the dog was able to, it was in such a poor state of mind/emotion that it behaved as you described.

Possible fitting aside I would be making a complaint to the practice about the prescription of ACP as it is totally inappropriate for this problem (or indeed any, IMO, and smacks of a seriously out of date vet).

For the problem itself - if the regular vets aren't making any headway then it's time to ask for a referral.

Thank you for all your responses. I have always felt that ACP caused Petria to still be afraid of what was bothering her. I am blaming that for the way she has been acting eg., growling and trying bite her rear. Now this full blown seizure last Saturday. I 4ook her to the Vet this morning and she agreed it's a seizure. Petria ia to have blood tests in 3 days, couldn't do it today because too soon after the seizure. The bloods are to fine out if her kidneys and liver are ok, if ok then anti seizure meds. The blood tests will be ongoing every few months to check her kidneys and liver. I would do anything for my little girl but the cost is going to kill my bank account.
regards,
Joan

The bloods are to fine out if her kidneys and liver are ok, if ok then anti seizure meds.

No no no! Please, don't allow your vet to put your dog on epilepsy medication when the seizure may well have been CAUSED by the ACP and therefore will never happen again! NO good vet would EVER consider putting a dog on epilepsy medication (which in the long run will damage the dog's liver for a start!) unless the seizures have become FREQUENT -by which they usually mean AT LEAST once a week. If there are longer intervals, there is no need as the medication will then cause more problems than what it is trying to prevent. If I was you I would now consider changing vets as yours do not seem to have a clue sadly. :(  Also please take my earlier suggestion of seeing a good behaviourist to train your dog to be happy with being handled for routine things -it can be done!  Good luck!

I would like to underline excellent advice in posts, especially Nikita and Goldmali. Please go to another vet in a totally different practice and get a second opinion. Treatment in this way with ACP is out of the ark and rings alarm bells.

>The bloods are to fine out if her kidneys and liver are ok, if ok then anti seizure meds.

It's not recommended to put animals on anti-epileptic medication unless they are having regular, frequent seizures. If your dog has one or two fits a week then medication is a good idea; if she only has one a month then that would be considered 'under control' and no medication is needed.

Have a look at melatonin - it is a superb anti-stress hormone, and it has the bonus of being very effective in a lot of mild epilepsy cases too.  So if this was caused entirely by your poor girl's experience, it could help bring down the stress of that event (and can be used one-off for grooming in the future if need be), and if it is indeed epilepsy, then it's a very safe alternative to conventional and potentially harmful medications.

Well, I'm scared now after reading everything, especially not to start Petria on anti seizure meds. I'm afraid I have run out of Vets, been to four over her what I call "attacking herself". I told the Vet who is new at this surgery that I hated ACP so she gave me 10 tabs 5mg., valium tabs for when Petria gets anxious. I asked if they were the same as human valium and she said "yes". Well if I were to take 5mg it probably would put me to sleep and I weigh 46 kilos, but she insisted 5mg was fine for Petria at 2kilos. I am at a loss, can't leave the town and I've run out of Vets here.
I was just at my hairdresser and was telling her about Petria, her mother has a little dog who has epilepsy fits but is not on any meds. Don't understand it.
I will have the bloods done on Thursday, BUT will ask more questions and especially find out about the Melatonin.
Many thanks for all you help and advice.
Regards,
Joan.
 

I wouldn't worry too much about the valium dosage - dogs often have higher doses than us.  I had a 7kg min pin one valium, he got 10mg and it just about made him sleepy.

However, I don't like it - it can make some dogs very wobbly which can worry them more; and occasionally a dog may hallucinate on them which of course has the same effect.  One of mine does that so she can't have it.  I have a stock of xanax (alprazolam) for her - it's in the same family but without those side effects.  In fact you tend to see no physical effects at all, except that the dog copes better with stress.

But again, with the right approach it shouldn't be necessary to use such strong drugs - IMO they are for serious frights only.  That's why I like the melatonin, the entire extent of side effects I've known of are one dog barking more (because he was actually enjoying his walks, so not exactly a side effect) and a couple possibly weeing more on a high dose, but those aren't confirmed.  Do be aware though - the chances are enormous that the vet won't have any clue about its use for either stress or epilepsy!

Thanks again for responding. I took Petria for her blood test $180. I told the young Vet, she is new at the surgery and from England, sadly she is only on a working holiday. I showed her the video of when Petria was what I called "attacking herself", growling and trying to bite her rear. I had seen 4  Vets over that to no avail and lots of medications etc. This young Vet said she thought they were "mini seizures" and the big one she had last Saturday night was a full blown one, I knew that. I told her how I hated the ACP but she made no comment, Vets and Doctors don't like to talk against other Vets etc. Anyway, she gave me Valium for Petria instead of ACP. She phoned yesterday to tell me the results of the bloods, Petria is okay except for her liver, I don't understand the numbers and probably different over where you are, but Petria 's was 142 and the Vet said it should be 118. She said not to worry about it and that maybe the blood test was done too soon...3 days after her seizure. I feel I have wasted $180. She said to have another blood test done in 2 weeks providing Petria doesn't have another seizure as that can interfere with the test. I told her I have decided anyway NOT to give her the anti seizure meds unless Petria starts to have more seizures per month or a cluster of seizures. I told her I am furious about the ACP drug and blame it for Petria's problems. I also asked about Melatonin but she had never heard of it so went to her book again, (she kept referring to her book for all my questions).The book said Melatonin is for alopecia (that's hair loss). But I know it is also for calming. My own GP wanted me to take it instead of sleeping tablets. My next step is to ask my pharmacy or the health food store for Melatonin. I haven't given Petria any of the valium as she doesn't seem well at all, just sleeping all the time and very lethargic. I have read that when a dog has a seizure it could take days for the dog to recover properly, so will see. I am watching her all the time I am so worried about the poor little thing. I love her so much it's breaking my heart. However, thanks again for all you suggestions it has helped me make decisions.
Regards,
Joan.

>I have read that when a dog has a seizure it could take days for the dog to recover properly, so will see. I am watching her all the time I am so worried about the poor little thing.

Thank you for updating us Joan.

Dogs can take days or sometimes weeks to get back to 'normal' so try not to worry to much. Keep in mind that she will pick up on your emotions and how you act/react to her and around her. I know this is easy to say and hard to do, but try and be as normal as possible when you are with her. Try not to treat her differently because she will not understand 'why' you are being like you are.She will just sense that 'something is wrong with mum' and that will worry her. They say the dogs do not know anything about the fits when they actually happen and I do believe that to be the case. I guess they have the right to be 'off colour' for a while after a seizure, when you consider the amount of 'energy' they use during a fit. But in the majority of cases they do bounce back so please try not to worry :)

Something you might like to try (you may do this already) is keep a 'Diary' of her attacks. List the date and time that the seizure takes place. Include the length of time (duration) of the actual seizure and 'type'. List how she was within herself leading up to the seizure and what she is like after it has ended. List any medication you gave. It helps to keep a record and makes sure you have a good idea what is going on and when.

[$180 Australian dollars works out at approx. £94.00]

Once again many thanks. I didn't think of a diary but excellent idea, I will do that for sure. I am sure you are correct that it would have taken some time for Petria to recover from such a seizure. She seems a little more like "herself" today. I guess I just have to keep an eye on her and hope she never has another seizure. I am so glad I found this forum, I think I would have gone ahead with the anti seizure meds (had her liver been okay) if I had not had the advice from here. Even if the next blood test shows her liver is the right number I will still wait and hope she never has another one. Time will tell.
Thank you all so much for helping me.
Regards,
Joan.