Not logged inChampdogs Information Exchange
Forum Breeders Help Search Board Index Active Topics Login

Find your perfect puppy at Champdogs
The UK's leading pedigree dog breeder website for over 25 years

Topic Dog Boards / Health / Coprophagia
- By sillysue Date 12.01.14 15:07 UTC
I am at my wits end with my rescue. She insists on eating the poo from my daughters 3 dogs. I live in the annex of my daughters house and we each have 3 dogs that run together and during the day they all live together.
She was a rescue that had been abandoned so no history at all, except she has had several litters and was a nervous wreck and had been very mistreated.
She is fed AG lamb with either a little topping of Chappie tinned or occasionally fish, chicken or pilchards etc. just to make her food a little more interesting.
She has loads of energy and seems to be in good health. She has regular vet checks as when I first got her she was suffering from various infections and had quite advanced lung worm. Hopefully this seems to have all cleared.

She has and still does choose to eat the poo from my daughters 3 dogs, but NEVER her own or my other 2 dogs. My 3 all have the same AG food, but my daughter feeds a cheaper food due to shortage in the pocket at the moment, so it is something in this cheaper food that attracts her.
The problem is that 2 of her dogs are on meds, one for a severe heart condition and the other for arthritis. I think these drugs are being passed in their poo as she gets very poorly afterwards, and a couple of days ago she followed the poo eating with loads of grass eating and eventually vomited the poo, grass and some type of blood ( like red jelly ) plus some fresh.  She is usually poorly after eating their poo but never this bad.
I can keep the garden clean by by going poo picking several times a day, but they all run in our fields and woods where it is impossible to find it all, but of course her Beagle nose finds it with no problem. She has usually run like a loony so by the time I get to where she is and I realise what she is doing it is too late.

We have tried the pineapple but it doesn't work. I know that I can walk her on a lead, but this way she is losing out on a good run, however if it cured her it would be worth it. But I have feeling that eventually if I let her off lead again she will go back to her old ways.

It is yuk enough, however if the meds are doing her damage then it is more than just yuk. I have had her on a lead for a couple of days and fed her chicken and rice with some Pro-Kolin, so the blood has stopped and her digestion has settled again, but I have no idea how to cope for the future.

I am in need of advice if anyone has any ideas please.....

BTW she is on monthly Advocate for the lungworm.
- By newyork [gb] Date 12.01.14 15:29 UTC
Would something like this fit her?
http://www.greyhoundmegastore.com/greyhounds/greyhound-muzzles/travelling-box-muzzle-1032.html
- By sillysue Date 12.01.14 15:42 UTC
Thanks newyork, I have thought about a muzzle, however that is covering the problem and not curing it ( if there is a cure !!) I have even thought about paying the extra cost for my daughter to use the AG to see if my dog would ignore the poos if they were eating the same food, however she has 2 large dogs and one small, so the cost would not be cheap - however desperate measures sometimes are needed. But thanks for the link
- By newyork [gb] Date 12.01.14 16:11 UTC
It can be a very difficult problem to cure. It is a completely natural and very rewarding behaviour for her so will be very difficult to stop. As there is a risk to her health with the medications the muzzle would allow you to let her have a bit of freedom without worrying while you are training her.
- By dogs a babe Date 12.01.14 16:48 UTC
I'd suggest checking with a vet to assess the risk of eating the poo of a dog on medication.  It might be less of an issue than you fear.

I agree with the muzzle option as a temporary measure - certainly if there is a risk of ingesting unnecessary medication and whilst you tackle the training issue.  Some dogs never grow out of this problem but it's quite likely that as she settles with you and realises she no longer needs to scavenge that it might decrease over time. 

Have a look at the soft muzzles if you prefer them or think they might be more comfortable.  I'm not sure what the relative merits are between these and the basket types having never used one
- By newyork [gb] Date 12.01.14 17:08 UTC

>


> Have a look at the soft muzzles if you prefer them or think they might be more comfortable


the problem with most basket muzzles and soft Mikki type muzzles is that dogs can still eat poo with them on. they just push down and can get to it. the type of muzzle I posted the link for has a solid area in front of the mouth so the dog cant get at the poo.
- By LJS Date 12.01.14 17:13 UTC
Puds used to eat my oldie who had colitis poo as it was alway semi digested so a very tempting snack.

As soon as she departed Puds stopped and hasn't done it since apart from cat poo.

I am afraid you will never stop it unless you are out with her and can stop her by command or keep her on a lead.
- By sillysue Date 13.01.14 08:30 UTC
Has anyone tried these? 
http://www.viovet.co.uk/Copro-Nil_Anti-Coprophagia_Powder_for_Dogs/c7392/?quick_find=127360&gclid=CPy_iubd-rsCFYUewwodASkAeA
http://www.viovet.co.uk/Stool_Repel-UM_Coprophagia_Aid_for_Dogs/c2333/?quick_find=117557&gclid=CP3lkvjd-rsCFUgJwwodQG8AuQ
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 13.01.14 08:33 UTC Edited 13.01.14 08:35 UTC
Copro-nil is for those dogs who eat their own faeces, not those of other dogs. You woud have to give it to all the dogs whose faeces your bitch eats; would your daughter be prepared to do that? Or could you subsidise your daughter so that she could afford the food that your dogs have so that their faeces aren't tempting?
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 13.01.14 10:21 UTC
I didn't see this in my first two, male hounds.  However, when my bitch was in whelp, she started doing this, hers, or from the boys and this lead me to think there may be something in this 'something missing in the diet' theory.   However, after her, some (not all and they were all on the same maintenance diet as adults) of mine, bitches or dogs, started doing this.   I've probably tried all the things that are supposed to stop this, but the ONLY thing that works is to PICK UP.   And bearing in mind it seems to be most appealing fresh out (hope you are not eating), getting out there when they are outside to do their biz.    So as soon as it lands, it gets picked up.

It might help if your daughter cleaned up after her dogs - or maybe fence off an area for your own dog to use, only.   I suppose medication could come through in the stools - never considered that ..... just the possibility of worms, or protozoa!

My friend had another theory based on the stools being appealing - maybe it was going through only partially digested.   And if that's so, maybe upping the quality of the food fed (basing it on meat first, not cereal) might help.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 13.01.14 10:53 UTC
Honestly, if it's become a habit, you've got a very, very slim chance of stopping it.  Of all the behaviour problems we see in dogs, coprophagia is one of (if not the) hardest to stop - it's self rewarding, and there's just something about it that makes it incredibly persistent.  And, it becomes a habit VERY quickly - it's as though once they've crossed that line, you can never re-draw it.

Work hard on her 'leave', that will give you an advantage but in the situation you describe I think your best bet is a muzzle.  I have dogs who will only eat poo from some of my others, so they're not eating it from other dogs out on walks, and I still have to watch them like a hawk every single time they go in the garden and if I walk them with their 'victims' - it's the best I've ever managed and I've had coprophagic dogs from the get-go; my second pup did it, grew out of it at ~ 8 months then my first rescue in 2006 already did it and I've been battling it since.

Very occasionally a dog will grow out of it but only a juvenile IME - and whatever you do, don't tell her off, she'll just try harder and eat faster!  Distraction helps if you can offer something really tasty, the best success I've had is with having the offending dog on a lead when there's poo around, letting them get not quite close enough to eat it, waiting until they turn away then rewarding that - many reps until they're looking at me straight away, then repeat off lead.  It's not foolproof - I've done it extensively with Paige (my most determined) but I still have to follow her around the garden.
- By tatty-ead [gb] Date 13.01.14 12:35 UTC
soft Mikki type muzzles

These should not be used when the dog is exercising as they keep the mouth closed (in theory) and stop the dog panting
- By Nikita [gb] Date 13.01.14 12:42 UTC
Personally, I don't believe they should be used at all.  Awful things.
- By sillysue Date 13.01.14 21:12 UTC
Many thanks to you all.
I have spoken to the vet today and she doubts that sufficient meds will pass through to do her very much damage and thinks it is more likely to be the bacteria that is causing the tum upsets. I am keeping the garden clear with hawk eyes every couple of hours, but it is the fields and woods where the dogs run that is more or less impossible to keep completely clean, and if there is a poo in the long grass then she will follow her nose and find it. As it is only used by our dogs then I know that the dogs are all wormed regularly etc and as the vet is not too concerned about the meds, then I will carry on with the treats. Every time she puts her head down she glances at me, I call her with a treat and this works at the moment. However if she has run with the other dogs to the distance then it is usually too late when I get there.
I want to avoid leads and muzzles if I can as she needs to let off steam with a good run and to investigate the woods, rabbit holes and chase like a normal dog. I do not tell her off but just make a growl type noise and she knows to leave it.
My vet told me she had been reading an article about this problem and that it can be cured with a lot of hard work, but to never tell the dog off, just let them know that it does not please me !!!
It looks like it is going to be a hard uphill slog, but we love them just the same don't we - warts an' all...
- By Brainless [gb] Date 13.01.14 21:14 UTC
The only thing to do is to clean up any poos as soon as done.  If you follow the dogs out and pick up right away before letting her out then the habit will eventually be broken, if not then it will prevent or minimise it.

A friend had to do this with one of hers, and she had 12 dogs at the time so it was quite a pain to do.

the reason she likes the dogs fed on the cheaper food is that it probably isn't as well digested and therefore sill nutritious to a dog who may have gone without adequate food in the past, and also bitches can be more prone to this having cleaned up after puppies.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 14.01.14 12:59 UTC

> My vet told me she had been reading an article about this problem and that it can be cured with a lot of hard work, but to never tell the dog off, just let them know that it does not please me !!!


Which amounts to pretty much the same thing - and just as fruitless with this problem!  Poo eating is far too rewarding, the vast majority of dogs won't give a flying fig if it doesn't please you, because it pleases them ;-)
- By sillysue Date 15.02.14 14:21 UTC
Update... I have bitten the bullet and paid the extra to put my daughters dogs on the same AG as my dogs, and hey presto, my Beagle is no longer eating poo. As their output is the same as hers it does not seem so attractive, so she just smells it, wees on it and walks away. It is like a weight lifted from me as I can now relax when she runs with the other dogs.
It was not the number of dogs to clear up behind that was the problem, but the very large area of fields and woods where I would always miss one or two poos over the day, but she would always manage to find them and eat them. I cannot believe that this problem was so easy to stop just with a change in food. My daughters dogs were on a cheap dog food as money is in short supply and there must have been something in that that seemed tasty !

Not only has this disgusting habit stopped, but she seems a lot calmer and placid in herself and no more upset tums and constant grass eating. So all in all a very good outcome ( for me if not my pocket )
She still eats rabbit poo though but that does not seem quite so bad.....
- By Brainless [gb] Date 16.02.14 01:10 UTC

>there must have been something in that that seemed tasty !


Problem with the cheap foods is they are not digested as well, so the food passes through only partly digested so still has food value.  With an higher quality more digestible food there is less point. 

This is why puppies will eat poo, on some foods, and of course the bitches happily do, as pups digestions are not as efficient, so there is still nutritional value in the output.

As for rabbit, sheep etc poo the enzymes are often useful and lacking in a processed diet.
- By furriefriends Date 16.02.14 11:45 UTC
I am pleased you have resolved the problem. It will also be interesting to see if your daughters dogs health improves in any way on ag in comparison to the cheaper food
Topic Dog Boards / Health / Coprophagia

Powered by mwForum 2.29.6 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill

About Us - Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy