Im considering mating one of my dogs using artificial insemination because the dog in question is abroad.Although i have plenty of experience in breeding i have never done this before and neither has the studs owner so any advice on the subject greatly appreciated.We have months to plan this so not in any hurry but want to know all the facts before we decide.For example what is the success rate and do all vets know how to carry out the insemination? Thanks

In my experience because the success rate is quite low and there are few vets show have the know how here, and all the red tape re importation if at all possible your more likely to be successful if you travel with your bitch to the stud, and it will likely be less expensive.

I have travelled abroad to mate my bitch twice now, both times flying, once to Finland and once to the USA.

Speak to Keith Shea at Fit and fertile. You need to do it through a registered company as only they have the facilities to store and handle frozen semen. Not all vets know how to do AI. I believe that F&F now have an 85% success rate.
Aileen

We have use MVS vets in Cheshire and got a litter of 9 from frozen semen that we brought in from the USA
They do everything for you from liaising with the vet in the US to progesterone testing and then the trans cervical insemination
This is their site
www.merefieldveterinaryservices.com

Thanks.Can you tell me a rough estimate of a cost( from the usa) and also a rough estimate to fly a dog to the usa to be mated so i can compare?

You really need to try all the airlines for the route you want.  The cheapest option is to fly with your bitch as checked baggage, which is far cheaper than Cargo.

For example when I flew Dec 2010 it was £570ish return for me and $150 dollars each way for the dog (I flew Heathrow to New York, and returned New York to Brussels as UK only allows flights in as Cargo, and had hubby drive to pick us up). Fuel from Bristol to Brussels say £100, plus ferry £70. Varikennel £100.

With AI you will have the costs of specialist vets both ends (collection and insemination), a Licence to import, (the dog will need to be pet passport compliant so you will need to pay those costs) a Carrier to pay, a storage container to buy or Rent, a battery of Progesterone Tests about £70 a time)

Oh Barbara - and there are those that think breeding is so easy!

My experience is importing from USA to here. The cost for the semen harvesting and storage is the stud owners. The company they use to harvest and store the semen will handle all the shipping logistics from their storage facility to your storage facility here. Keep in mind whether you import one mating unit or 100, the cost is the same. The cost is in the container and the paperwork processing. New DEFRA laws only require proof that the stud has been vaccinated against rabies and booster given was at least 9 months prior to semen donation. A health certificate will need to be issued for the stud from the country of origin-vets work with each other on this as there is usually a regional designate who will issue for the studs vet provided all the records are there. Import license is no big deal- fill out a form and fax it. If you work with the semen company and have plenty of advanced time you can request to get in on another shipment and then share the costs. International Canine Semen Bank is one of the best around. So the upside is you will pay about
£2500 to get the semen here (if no buddying up) but then you have access to multiple mating opportunities. I would never advise importing less than 8 matings-it's a lot of money not to have a 2nd,3rd or 4th go at it.  A TCI done twice  ( 24-26 hrs apart)  will cost you £530. Storage fees are £65 for 5 vials /year. CalderVet now has Croft's canine repro vet offering all aspects of reproduction services including storage and insemination. She is excellent. Please stay clear of the so called expert in Cambridge. You want a vet willing to be there for you 24/7-- progesterone levels can unpredictably surge and an imminent insemination required. Timing is everything as frozen semen once thawed will only live minutes not the 3 -5 days when live. You want someone willing to be there and be inconvenienced weekends/holidays etc, who will return you phone calls. Progesterone levels are £30-35 a pop and you will need at least 4 testings. IDDEXX are the big boys but unless you near one of their labs you will need to have your vet courier it out overnight but Keele near Keele Uni also have a great reputable same day testing lab so depends on where you live You will also need a post thaw semen analysis and I would want this before I even considered the stud. So really the stud owner needs to initiate the process with a reputable canine semen bank  and in doing so they then can also store semen from their trusted sire to use up to a 100 years down the road !!! PS Fit and Fertile have no vets only techs if this is important to you. It was for me.

> £2500 to get the semen here

In a numerically small breed a dog siring 6 - 8 litters would almost swamp the gene pool.  I imported and owned a dog in partnership, who sired 8 litters and he is in most current dogs now.  So a mating or AI importation would only be for one or two litters.

Then of course you have the vets fees for insemination, can't see that being cheap, add in travel costs.

Also with the stud dog owner having fees their end these will add to the stud fee.

Two dogs from different lines were brought in so the cost was halved for myself.You need two samples per mating and then of course there is no guarantee it will take so 6-8 matings(vials/straws)  will only give 3-4 litters of which averaging size is usually 30% less than natural -this could only benefit a small gene pool particularly if the line being introduced is new to this country/EU. Why a really good idea to buddy up and import more than one line together. As the semen will store indefinitely, it can be used down the road as well as giving access to other European countries.   If the sire is that of stature (and frankly why else bother) then the owner should have already thought of preserving the line. Don't know of any established current US, French, German or Dutch breeders of my breed that don't have semen stored on their field and or conformation champs. The cost for them to get the semen here is zero. In the US because of the land mass, AI (albeit surgical) is method of choice for breeding if distance is an issue- eliminating the need for travel up to 100's to 1000's of miles to get to a sire. Easy on the stud breeder and easier yet on the bitch. If you fly travel to the stud and it doesn't take-kind of expensive going back not to mention the stress for the bitch to travel unless you are lucky enough to have a breed that will fit under your seat-even then.....plus  food, accommodation, land travel expense once you are there ...and as you have already paid the stud fee and it doesn't take- then what? The vast majority of established breeders do not charge for a stud fee on semen unless it results in a litter- the exception being when what is stored is all that remains of that particular dog (deceased). So the cost for the mating once semen is here is limited to the TCI (£510.00) for two insemination's and progesterone testing (£30-35 per test), with the opp to repeat if it fails. All a matter of personal choice.

PS Restriction of litter registration ensures control of the line and is imperative to protect a small gene pool. Gene pool expansion has little to do with litter numbers but everything to do with being diligent in only breeding those dogs who are exceptionally true to form and function. It is a long arduous road to recovery.

>Gene pool expansion has little to do with litter numbers but everything to do with being diligent in only breeding those dogs who are exceptionally true to form and function.

Within the closed book breed system you can never expand the gene pool without crossbreeding. Every indiviudal which is discarded from the breeding programme reduces the gene pool further.

You misunderstand.  In numerically small breeds any dogs siring more than a few litters may end up having disproportionate influence on the gene pool (popular sire syndrome). 

A dog used more than a couple of times can easily end up being a 'popular sire', conversely some very good males, including champions,  never get used, mainly because they may be too closely related to available bitches, so it hardly encourages anyone to pay for semen storage.

As you say to be worthwhile you would want to use semen for more than one litter to make it worthwhile.

When I have travelled to mate a bitch it was

1). to have a better chance of getting a litter both in size and success rate.
2).Knowing that only one or two of the resulting litter would be likely to be useful to me, or the gene pool. 
3) We in the UK in our breed have had very little success with AI only two litters in 30 years, and many failures.

In my own breed I don't think everyone saves semen in the USA, certainly not in Scandinavia, and so the costs for semen would have to be borne by the importer.  Also I think your veterinary charges are probably far more reasonable than most people pay.  Years ago I paid £70 per premate test, and that was using the in-house kits.

So there is a lot to weigh up expense wise.

Importantly though I like to know that both dog and bitch still retain their natural mating behaviour/libido, so as not to store up difficulties for later genrations.

Thanks for all your helpful comments,its a lot to think about and see pros and cons in both x

> £2500 to get the semen here

Are you talking about just shipping the straws or does this include the stud fee?

> A TCI done twice  ( 24-26 hrs apart)  will cost you £530 >

Not everywhere, there are 2 or 3 excellent and reputable repro vets where it would cost around £300

Just pulled my invoice from ICSB (April 2012)and total cost for importing 20 vials was actually only $1752.00
(£1060) which we split so just over £500 each. The discount for group rate shipping was $300) so sorry a lot less than I recall. This included everything-vet health cert, import permit, semen prep, 3 week rental of dry vapor shipper and direct shipment to repro vet storage.

There is no stud fee paid until a litter is produced -again unless the sire is deceased or no longer able to donate viable semen usually only then will an up front stud be paid.

I have had a TCI, then a surgical AI (special permission granted to me by the KC). The first AI was done by the UK's supposed expert in Cambridge who only charged £120 with the Norwegian  catheter which is rigid and is designed to prevent reflux of the semen back out of the cervix-it is however a blind insemination and naturally dependent on the skill of the operator...when asked why no scope was being used I was told she was good enough not to have to have direct visualization. She's considered the best so I did not challenge her. It failed as it did with with the litter mate. So she advised a surgical insemination and we both went through the whole process of acquiring special permission from the KC for a Surgical AI which had to go to committee etc. They agreed-small UK numbers here and influx of champion lines from oldest top producing kennel in the US to the UK and Europe. Same for the litter-mate. I so very much regret doing this-and would honestly feel this way even if it had taken- whilst the incision is small and the procedure only lasts 20 min there is still a general and she was sore. But this is the preferred method of choice in the US so I guess I am just a whimp but afterwards I felt selfish and very guilty for putting her through that. The Surgical was performed in Cambridge not by the repro vet but by the vet at the surgery where the procedure was preformed. All the repro vet did was inject the uterus directly with the semen. None of this was brought to light until after the fact when I went to pay the bill and no repro vet to be found and was told she had to go away for the weekend and would be in touch. Previously, she had said she only rented the facilities and staff but did the surgery herself. Cost for this £560 paid not to her but the surgery vet. She did send me a bill later for £90 for "assistance in insemination". The litter-mate did take with multiple whelps seen on scan but at week 45 x-ray showed she was empty and had reabsorbed the entire litter. Soooo back to the drawing board for me. I went back to who I had originally looked at before going with the "expert". TCI with rigid endoscope and direct visualization with the very small internal scope catheter which passes right up and into the cervix. Up on a grooming table, I held her and she was fine-felt a bit weird for her I'm sure ! The first took nearly 35min to find the cervical os as hers sits slightly lateral. Second time took less than 2 !! But to see the catheter actually slip into the os was very, very reassuring. These were done 24 hours apart-this is not really necessary if using chilled semen- one insemination will usually suffice but with frozen thawed, two is definitely the recommendation. The cost was£365 and an additional £165 for the second.
Myself and the litter-mate owner paid £30 to IDEXX and then the £6.00 fee to draw the sample. When taken to the lab in Keele this time it was the same but I hand carried it to get same day results. I know of no vet or lab that charges more than £35 for serum progesterone. IDEXX will send you the kit for nothing and you can actually pay them directly and just have the vet do the blood draw and you mail or the vet will overnight courier with their other bloods.The pathologist at IDEXX in Yorkshire is great-will call you directly with results and timing advice 7 days a week as will most other reputable labs. Because of using frozen thawed semen they will however tell you to be ultimately guided by your repro vet. Average tests required= 3-5 depending on your bitch (if she is known to surge.)
Hope this helps with all the pros and cons.
The final installment...due to whelp 31 Jan. Please keep fingers crossed for us, it's been a long heart breaking road.

I respectively ask that you please do not patronize. It serves no purpose here.
Considering you have no knowledge of me, my breed, my breeding experience, the breed's respective numbers nationally and globally or it's genetic history your assertion that I lack a certain element of comprehension is unwarranted. My breeding direction and knowledge originates from my mentor who has bred, judged nationally and internationally both in the ring and field for over 30 years, whelped over 350 pups to date,has produced more AKC field and conformation champions than any other breeder and was directly instrumental in successfully saving the breed from a proposed out-crossing some 20 years ago, and as a expert in the breed gives regular AKC and KC seminars in the art of breeding and pedigree research.  
Perhaps we stick to what we know (our own breed) and not what we think we know.

I don't think anyone is being patronising, but costs and advisability of methods will vary is to their usefulness, and individually, based on so many variables.

As to stud fees, all the cases I know of the stud fee is paid for the purchase of the semen, so I imagine that there are as many differing arrangements as for when you use a dog in the usual manner, re services offered and payment options.

Given the choice personhally, and all things being equal (cost and likely success) on balance I would always want a bitch to conceive by natural means, and have the option of several matings.

Good luck with the whelping, you must be very excited after al this.

Quote from Sealgaire: "My experience is importing from USA to here. The cost for the semen harvesting and storage is the stud owners."

It is interesting how conventions vary between breeds and between countries. I had semen taken from one of my boys a while ago and the vet told me that the convention was that the bitch owner paid for the taking and storing and shipping of the semen.

> It is interesting how conventions vary between breeds and between countries.

It varies within countries as well.  I have sent out semen to various countries and I do not charge for the collection as I have always kept some straws back for our own future.  The bitch owners have paid for the shipping, and also if specific blood tests have been required before collection to ship into their own country.  They have always paid for the shipping.  2 other people I know here have charged for the collection for every shipment sent even if the straws have been from one collection that yielded enough for several inseminations so they have charged collection say 3 or 4 times from only one actual collection.

I charge the normal stud fee, though I have waived that for a pick puppy instead but the bitch owner still paid for the shipping of the straws.  A friend in Sweden charges a normal stud fee, collection, shipping, and also get pick puppy and she said that is the norm there in our breed.

I have imported semen from the USA and not been charged for the collection, and amongst my breed that is normally the case.  Even for within us in the USA collection is not generally charged for.

Good the know the differences in breeds worldwide and attitudes to AI.