Well I'd fail as mine have one communal gallon waterfowl in the kitchen,

Well that isn't one BOWL as I was talking about, is it? I said we wouldn't want somebody to get away with one bowl between ten dogs, by that I meant there would not be enough water! I use buckets myself.

At the moment despite 5 dog beds (oh dear there are 6 dogs!!!) they prefer the rubber backed mats to lie and sleep on

Again not as in my example as I said bare concrete.

As I said before would we allow 'health Visitors' to dictate detail of how we keep our new-borns????  Yet they too check that everything with new Mums and babies is fine.

When I had my first baby I was told by the health visitor to get rid of my dogs as children and dogs do not mix, I was also told I MUST not use baby wipes, only cottonwool -I was dictated to a LOT on what to do or not.

Why does the breeder have to provide all this additional info, surely the new owner has a responsibility to educate themselves, there are plenty of resources available???? 

If they have to read up on something I would MUCH prefer they read what I MYSELF recommend, rather than what somebody else has written. Especially as far as training goes -certainly don't want anyone to end up buying Cesar Millan for instance. And people DON'T buy what you recommend. A long story and different subject but I recently recommended somebody that was expecting their first litter to buy the Book of the Bitch, told them were it was available etc etc, and still they didn't bother.

I know the more written info I have provided the less likely it is to be read

Indeed, so I do two versions. A single page at front with the bullet points of each subject, referring to the 12 page detailed info I have for one breed or the 16 pages for the other. That way it is quick to locate the most important info and people are far likely to read one page.

Yet suddenly the breeder is expected to give detailed written advice on just about everything.

I have ALWAYS done this, from my first litter of puppies and my first litter of kittens. So I started doing it in 1989 and yes BEFORE there were computers. I used a type writer and then copied the pages in the post office.

No-one did sales contracts back then,

I was shocked when I arrived in the UK in 1988 and bought a pup and did not have to sign a contract. I had signed one at home in Sweden in 1984!

> I have seen on Facebook that some people have received phone calls asking why they've left the scheme...  Perhaps you will also be asked why you have left.

In the great scheme of things I think it's unlikely as I'm such a small scale breeder, but we shall see...

As I said in a previous post, my inspection is on Tuesday at 3.30, so once he has gone I will come back and describe exactly what happened :)

I can almost guarantee that my girl will probably come into season the same day though and go into "duvet and DVD" mode lol

I think passing and failing could well depend on when they come. When mine are in season the bitches hate each other and males who normally run together are kept apart. It would look totally different for a visit. One day all dogs out playing...the other dogs kept apart. Understandable to a fellow breeder but the inspectors are not all breeders. The weather too. At the moment we have torrential rain and have had for what seems like weeks. My dogs have access to a paddock which is lovely in the summer but a bog at the moment. I still let them out so they are muddy...that mud is transferred to walls of kennels and the floor....there is only so many times you can mop it. These are normal happy well exercised animals who don't care at all about getting wet but not a good look for a visit. Compare me to the commercial breeder who's dogs live on sawdust and never go out. They are dry 24/7, probably clipped so no matted coats either, I bet total boredom wouldn't feature at all.
Speaking from experience the inspector can only base their findings on what they are told too. Such an establishment that verges on "puppy farmer" will tell you "they are let out for 2 hours morning and evening to run and play together".......how do you prove differently?
Does anyone know if there are any changes to go along with LA licensed kennel rules on what kennels can be made of?
I expect most of us use wood to one degree or another. Most councils do not allow wood to be used....another reason I wouldn't want to be pushed in that direction.

>Well that isn't one BOWL as I was talking about, is it? I said we wouldn't want somebody to get away with one bowl between ten dogs, by that I meant there would not be enough water! I use buckets myself.<br />

well yes it is one bowl, and for 6 dogs needs refilling at least twice a day. Oh one of the ladies visited uses washing up bowls (square so stable and take up less room) for water and was criticised for it.

>I have ALWAYS done this,

but that is how you choose to do things,  others may have different ideas and priorities.

It does not make you a better breeder than someone who supplies advice differently, and recommends already published sources.

I find it takes ages getting all the paperwork together, (some people are not as literate as others) with what I already do, taking my time away from the important aspect of caring for my puppies.

sounds familiar to what I hear from Teachers I know who say they find they spend more time completing reports, than teaching.

I had a girl in season and she was upstairs with my daughter for the visit until the end when I put my male out and brought her down for him to see her.

What is the problem with washing up bowls? We have 12 dogs and I have nice ,stable , regularly cleaned washing up bowls in every room plus outside on terrace. The bowls are regularly replenished with fresh water.

No one seems to be objecting to the inspections, it's more the lack of notice for the changes and the increase in fees.

Plus it also seems that ABS members are having to pay more when those not in the scheme have no increase.....it's hardly fair.....

Actually...... on thinking about it........isn't this all the wrong way around?

Shouldn't the KCABS be something that every decent breeder wishes to aspire to, surely the charges should go to the people who do not wish to be inspected and do everything the KCABS want?  Tbh the KC would make more money than ever if all who applied for KC registration without being in the ABS were charged instead that extra amount....... always those of us who strive for the better of the breed get the short end of the stick, as most of the public puppy buyers out there really do not understand the difference anyway - still!

Yes, none ABS members should be penalized and charged extra for litter registration this would also be for the good of the breed in making them want to comply. ;-)

Exactly Carrington! Penalise the poor breeders and reward the good. It's not rocket science is it?

I agree, it's simple. A two tier registration system, a higher fee for registering a litter from a non KC ABS breeder and a lower fee for KC ABS breeders.I can't see why this can't be done......that way high volume breeders, BYB's and puppy farms would pay more.

If every puppy is registered as now at £15 each I can't see why there couldn't be an additional litter registration fee (let's say £20) which would be paid by everyone NOT in the AB scheme for each litter they register. As an ABS member you just pay your annual membership fee but no litter registration fee.

if there was to be a 2 tier system I personally would prefer it to be health tested or non-health tested. that would reward the people who pay a great deal of money out doing tests. Puppy farmers/byb's don't and many AB's don't either. I know that's the case in my own breed. Most of the Ab's do nothing at all.

There should be a ONE tier system! ALL puppies registered by the KC MUST be health tested and the health tests MUST be acceptable to a breed defined criteria. If the health tests are not done, or the health test is done and the result is not acceptable to peers within the breed, NO REGISTRATION SHOULD BE POSSIBLE!

Inspection of breeding premises must be MANDATORY!

This is the reason that we are not, and never have been, members of the ABS.

The ABS is just window dressing to appease the pressure groups. It would be much simpler to appease any opponents to pedigree dogs that ALL puppies registered by the KC have parents that have had the appropriate health testing done for the breed and furthermore have passed these tests at an acceptable level.

The costs of the ABS scheme should not be passed to those who are not members, as everyone should be a de-facto member of the ABS, following the rules and regulations, or they cannot register puppies.

Simples! (obviously too simple, as the KC cannot see the light, or is it that they would probably lose at least half of their registration income?).

Leave the unregistered, non-health tested puppies for the like of the 'Dog Lovers Club' to register. It would not take long for the public to realize that the 'KC registered' status of well-bred pups would assure quality, not a scheme that most don't understand.

The ABS scheme will obviously cost much more than previously and involve more standardized inspections - that is what UKAS accreditation is all about! The KC have to jump to the tune that UKAS call if they wish for this accreditation!

It would be even more progressive if the KC opened up its membership to ALL interested parties, ie breeders, exhibitors, triallers, obedience etc. We could all pull in the same direction, vote for the future of our hobby and assure that we are united in our aim to rid this country of unhealthy, untested dogs. The KC can keep their exclusive club premises for those of us who care about that sort of thing and who are willing to pay more for the social side. Personally, I am not intersted in that and just want a democratic right to move my hobby into the 21st century.

Paul

>It would not take long for the public to realize that the 'KC registered' status of well-bred pups would assure quality, not a scheme that most don't understand.

It would also mean puppies from a very quickly very much reduced gene pool, which is a major factor in the health issues within breeds.

I used to agree with everything that you say snomaes, didn't understand a two tier system at all, the KC should stand for quality and all should do the same with one ABS registration, used to also think this is all just about money for the KC they get the best of both worlds.

However, having our hearts and minds in the right place will make the gene pools of all breeds eventually minimal, because the other types of breeder who are vast and completely outnumber the rest of us won't KC register at all then, then what do we do? There would only be small numbers of studs and bitches for us all to choose from, not many people who KC register are in the ABS for many reasons and give it 5 years we will all be crying out for no choice and we'll have a genetic nightmare.

If the KC push too hard thousands will drop out. The KC is first and foremost a place for pedigree dogs to be registered a place like our Somerset House to record births, we can't lose that, we need that ancestry for all of our dogs sakes.

So the two tier system is needed to encourage as many as possible to still KC reg, but as previously said there should be an extra charge for not being in the ABS, to hopefully still keep people registering but also teach and learn at the same time what a good breeder does.

There are still thousands of dogs bred and snatched up without any pedigree or any registration of any kind every year, people are not learning.

And the public will never get the difference, most are still duped by KC (Kennel Club) and Kennel Registered **rolleyes** so similar (for obvious reasons) but one guarantees a long standing official pedigree dog, the other could be made up or have crosses in it, being totally unofficial.

The two tier system will have to stay as first and foremost it is a pedigree registration service.....whereas the KC ABS needs to stand for quality pedigree dogs and it needs to be put out there as exactly that. :-)

Ditto JG. :-)

> whereas the KC ABS needs to stand for quality pedigree dogs

Well it doesnt seem to at present. It seems to be aiming for good documentation and factory style rearing. And health tests  might be compulsory but there seems to be no intention to stop breeding dogs that fail.

if I choose not to be an AB yet health test and do everything else as I should....including breeding with decent stock to start with.....why should I have to pay more to register my puppies than someone who does no health testing, has no affix even, has inferior puppies but chooses to pay their money to be an AB.
Being an AB really denotes nothing at all about quality.

Agreed, things need a big kick up the bum, it's why many of us have opted out after joining or being interested in joining when it first started.  It needs to mean what it says and do as it says and be very strict sticking to its criteria.

It's a great idea and eventually it will work, but it is up to usto make sure that the KC know our concerns and our upset about things as it needs to work, we are the only people (the conscientious breeder) who can make it work, but the KC will not change unless we all continue to voice our opinions, we have to continue to send e-mails and make phone calls about things we are unhappy with otherwise they won't know. :-)

Having a one tier system should not mean reducing breed gene pools, lots of breeders use dogs from outside of the KC system when they go abroad to mate their bitches or import semen etc and they use dogs from a huge number of countries and let's be honest here,  how many breeders would currently seriously consider using puppy farmed dogs as part of their breeding programme despite their being KC registered ? so they already add nothing to a breed's gene pool.

The KC should make it's registration a benchmark of quality , anything else is simply smoke and mirrors.

Yvonne

They know about the tread so will be aware of people's concerns as wanted them to realise the upset this has caused to many conscientious breeders.

They have put a press release out and say that as part of the benefits will be upto £300 of savings on various things per annum if you are a paid member so not sure if that gives any change to people's views as think that is what the KC think.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/press-releases/2014/all-assured-breeders-to-be-inspected-and-receive-ukas-accredited-certification-from-january-2014/

>Inspection of breeding premises must be MANDATORY!

I have no objection to being visited, though from what I have heard from those within the breed that have been, I object to the silly details, re paperwork, facilities in domestic environment. 

I don't think anyone has a right to dictate how I and my dogs live (our homes are not a factory or place of work) as long as we are in good condition/healthy/well fed.  How we achieve those objects is down to us.

I certainly think that if visits are to be made it should be to inspect litters as they do with overseas kennel Clubs, after all it is the puppies that are being sold.

As for all the paperwork, it is well OTT, and frankly mostly the buyers responsibility re ownership, and basic advice and directing to information sources should be al that is REQUIRED.  Of course we can provide as much info as we like, but format, timing etc should be up to us.

For example I often trickle feed info by email over the weeks, during the time that the owners are waiting to collect, details for equipment, books, training puppy care (I send them all Ian Dunbar's Before And After You Get Your Puppy).  After puppies are collected I will email reminders about worming, starting traihjnign classes etc, and fo course anwer queries these communications generate..

>They have put a press release out and say that as part of the benefits will be upto £300 of savings on various things per annum

As far as I can see none of those items would apply to my breed, except the discount with optigen, but as most of us will be breeding now from hereditary clears fro prcd-PRA it will apply to very few.

No mention of discounts for BVA schemes.

I suspect the KC are going to spin this to save face. Over 1000 ABS 'jumped before they were pushed'.

If that's the case ....I'd like that in writing Mr Lambert please.

>Over 1000 ABS 'jumped before they were pushed'.<br />

Yes I have had the impression they have deliberately given the impression that those who don't join, or leave are bad breeders (though I suppose some might be).

I have noticed that their Facebook page no longer allows people to post on there.

Just on the discount side of things, the only way to get to them is to register your details on "mykc" website. I was particularly looking at the disinfectant as I needed to get some more. The link takes you to a kennel club special offer on Amazon of all places and is for 20 litres! of Anigene for 61 pounds. I don't buy chemicals in this volume, the discount only applies to this quantity. So not such a good deal after all :(

Having a one tier system should not mean reducing breed gene pools, lots of breeders use dogs from outside of the KC system when they go abroad to mate their bitches or import semen etc and they use dogs from a huge number of countries and let's be honest here,  how many breeders would currently seriously consider using puppy farmed dogs as part of their breeding programme despite their being KC registered ? so they already add nothing to a breed's gene pool.

Exactly what I was going to say. The people who would register elsewhere are NOT breeders of dogs any of us would ever consider using. (After all, none of the dogs they produce could ever be shown.) It ALREADY works in other countries to a) ONLY register pups from health tested parents with ACCEPTABLE results (and for many breeds, character testing on top), and b) to increase the registration fees for pups from parents without any form of qualifications from either shows or trials. And add to that , in Sweden, and I am sure therefore also in many other countries, ALL breeders are inspected. According to the Swedish KC's webiste, they currently have 16 000 active breeders.

If I wanted to register a litter of Malinois in Sweden, I would first have to be a member of either the Swedish KC or one of their affiliated clubs, cost around £30 to £40 a year. Then if the parents have qualifications, 405 kr per puppy (that is, according to the XE currency converter, £37.) If the parents have no qualifications, 575 kr per puppy (£53 !!!!!!!) If you have already bred two litters, you MUST register a kennel name if you ever want to register more puppies. Cost 2500 kr or £233. You MUST sell all puppies with a contract. All puppies MUST be either microchipped or tattooed when sold. Both parents must be hip scored with good results, and both parents must have been character tested. (Have to say I disagree with no demand for eye testing!)

Well I just thought I would come back and update this as I had my inspection today. I can honestly say that it was in-depth, professionally done and thorough and I feel that with the amount of detail that they go into, that ultimately it can only benefit our dogs in the long run. If I should ever be a puppy buyer again, I would rather to go to someone that has everything gone through with a fine tooth comb. I now feel exhausted!

It is evidence based, so for every question that was asked, proof had to be provided, either by him taking photographs or by providing documents or showing photographs of my girl with her litter and the set up for example. The document that I was told that I would be measured against was this one http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/8866/absappform.pdf so not the draft kennel type doc someone had put the link to earlier. Only the 'essential health' tests were documented with serial numbers of paperwork but her other 'recommended health tests' were also recorded. No copies were needed of these to be taken away.
I have two other dogs in the house and no documents were needed to be seen for them as they were logged as 'pets'.
In the outside area my patio and garden was photographed, so was the back of my car with dog crate and the front of my house? (even he wasnt sure why this had to be done). My water bowls, what I store my dog food under the sink in, the cupboard under the stairs where I keep the 15kg dog food bag, my grooming equipment and also my dog first aid kit was photographed although the contents didn't need to be inspected. My worming and flea preventative was checked to ensure it was in date as well.
Regarding the documentation on my girl, he wanted to see KC Reg, copies of all health tests and season dates, vaccination cert and chip paperwork and she was scanned with a hand held scanner to check. For the litter of pups (last year) he wanted to see their registration certificate, photographs of the setup, including her whelping box, heating and temperature control, bedding, the newborn pups with mum, pics as the pups grew up, the sort of things they had to play with, what I did to socialise them, that they were in the home and if they had a vet check before leaving (but not anything about vaccination or microchip). He also took me through how I vetted potential owners, if I had an enquiry form (yes) what I told potential buyers on initial phone calls: breed nature/tendencies, health tests, choice of stud dog, my set up, contract, endorsements etc. How I recorded the pups weight/worming/identified different pups/feeding/things like health check ups. I had to prove everything, so he saw my whelping chart, pups weight charts, photographs I had taken, contracts signed by puppy buyers (although he took a sample blank one with him).  He also wanted to know what I knew about the inbreeding coefficient and also how many breeding dogs I would need locally and nationally to need a council licence (2 and 5). He then needed a copy of my puppy pack and he went through a checklist with what it had to include (which it did) and also how I kept in touch with puppy buyers. Nature of my dogs was noted and also where they all slept and what on. He also wanted to know what happened to the dogs when I was on holiday (they come too) who would look after them in an emergency and who were my vets (and took their name and phone number). He wanted to know how I would quarantine my dog if they had come into contact with an infectious disease (upstairs and through hall to front, other dogs; kitchen and lounge through back door to back). Did I have a fire escape plan written down (I did). Was everywhere clean and tidy, did the dogs have enough stimulation, things to do, what were their daily activities/exercise and how many meals they have per day (2).  I will hear officially in four to six weeks the outcome but he showed me the 'recommendations' letter he was going to forward :D but that was conditional on the 'checking people' going through my copies of the paperwork he had taken as well, especially the information that I had written in my puppy pack :) although he would be reading that himself first.

Well I hope that might help someone that is due to have their inspection.  It does also say here: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/press-releases/2014/january/all-assured-breeders-to-be-inspected-and-receive-ukas-accredited-certification-from-january-2014/
That:
The change will mean that UKAS accredited certification will be given to all breeders who have passed an Assessment Visit since 1st January  2014 and will be backdated for those breeders who have successfully passed an inspection in 2013.

I'm sorry but that seems far to invasive of my home.  It's my home, not a place of work or factory!!!

I have seen the report and assessment of a person in my breed who had a visit recently, whose home is pretty well suited to keeping dogs with them able to divide the house and garden for segregation of dogs (they keep both sexes), this would not even be possible in my home, which is why I keep only bitches.

They did feel the visit very intrusive into their home life, even to the visiting person sniffing the air for doggy smell and pronouncing there was none.  She was unsure if this was disbelief that the dogs  live indoors or approval (our breed rarely has much if any doggy odour), and was asked why a crated dog did not have water (he was blocking the bowl).

re the assessment >so not the draft kennel type doc someone had put the link to earlier.  The assessment I have seen actually is based on the document I linked to earlier.

They did pass except for puppy pack info on grooming and socialisation wanting expanding.  Our breeds grooming needs are pretty basic, and a matter of common sense, bath if dirty, groom out loose coat.

Photographing the car, until 5 years ago I didn't have access to a car, transportation was public transport, ask a friend or walk.

How I keep my house and Garden??? 

Frankly mine at the mo is in an uproar with builders bags of gravel and chippings ready for the garden work we have been trying to do over the last year, (resurfacing the dogs are which is cracked concrete and temporary slabs and gravel), and the back has stacks of breeze blocks, to make retaining for differing levels.

As for my house it is choc a block to the ceilings in the bedrooms, and second reception as I have all m y daughter and her OH's belongings from their 3 bedroom rental, waiting on their moving into their new home.

They complete next week, but are unlikely to move out straight away until they do some work sorting a decent bathroom and kitchen and decorate a bedroom.

Advantage is I have built in dog sitters, LOL

I am concerned that those checking and passing are not the ones actually visiting.

Also all the written info is well OTT, so much of it I consider is owner responsibility (and therefore optional from the breeders point of view), for example training, there are many differing views, ditto feeding, early socialisation yes, but after that it is all so subjective and individual situation based, make up of household, lifestyle, location.

All this evidence, what of those who do not have a computer, take loads of photographs, still work with hand written notes, mark seasons on a calendar?????  I know plenty of experienced breeders who don't weigh puppies, (they know by eye that pups are round hydrated and gaining) except for doing for worming.  My mentor told me off for constantly worrying about puppy weights and comparing them with different litters and worrying myself sick with my second litter.  I still actually do weight regularly but realise that they can vary quite a bit and still be about the same by 12 weeks.  I don't record them all now, just once a week, but could choose not to keep them at all.

It feels like being straightjacketed, talk about nanny state.

All the registration etc details are already held by the kennel club, ditto health test results for goodness sake.

Sounds rather like my inspection nearly 12 months ago.
Unfortunately it doesn't address the problems I have with the ABS scheme when people ask for a healthy CAVALIER puppy....none of that will guarantee to source a puppy from someone who addresses the real health issues in my breed.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to catalogue the visit. For anyone waiting for an inspectiony our post will be really useful for preparation.

Diane

Thank you, I was only trying to help by describing what had happened today. I can honestly say it didnt feel intrusive, I am a single parent from a domestic violence background, Im the first person to find someone intimidating, it just wasnt, it was all very friendly and professional. I suppose as I do not have many years of experience behind me, the only way that I can show that I want to do my best is to be completely open to scrutiny. I only have one dog under my kennel name, so perhaps different to some. Every single one of my puppy owners either came through here or through the ABS channel and with my breed there are so many pups to choose from as well. I really wanted to be able to prove that  'I am trying my best to do what is needed for the health of my pups, my owners and my dog' and for me this means belonging to the ABS even with all its faults.

Sadly Toolz, having kept Cavaliers for over 20 years after losing my beloved Alfie in April after only 5 years despite all health tests and MRI's being done on the parents, I will never have another one, Ive lost too many, too early.

Your post was much appreciated.

I have a question, do they advise you of the evidence they will require, after all you may not have a lot of it to hand. 

Especially if like many you have recently had a new computer,(lost email contacts as they don't transfer over with other data), lost data, (as happened to a friend who was then assessed on what little she had, and got a drubbing re paperwork, even though she redid loads and sent it on later), or still do everything by hand as and when required, and many not keep many items, other than new owners names and addresses, contracts, and your dogs registrations and vaccination certs (do all of you keep all details of vet visits??).

As I have a bitch hopefully about to be mated, and have informed the KC, I await the visit with bated breath, though I told them I probably would not re-join after 31st of May when my membership is due for renewal.

I have not heard anything from the KC yet.

Thank you for this Alfiemashie - I have asked for a visit as a litter due but heard nothing yet!

I agree with those who have said that how we all keep our dogs will be different. I don't keep mine in kennels, they have the run of the house and so on but would not criticise those who do. It is just not right for me and my dogs. So although I breed and show they live as family pets and stay through to old age.
This means I have not got everything set up  to perfection and it is a mad house at times ( I have 5 currently). If they came and took pictures of our garden right now they would not be impressed because it isn't huge and a big part of it is cordoned off as we are re-doing some walling. Doubt that will be finished now until the spring. Luckily my house is a reasonable size and I can separate dogs if needs be but not everyone can. If I have a litter I encourage my Mum to mix with the others as early as they want as they normally get along OK. I use common sense so if they are not happy  it is obvious and they are kept separate.
I think it is the taking pictures that bothers me particularly. I love my dogs as family, feed them, groom them walk them and as a side hobby show them. I don't have breeding facilities set up very often and it is obviously a normal home except I run my grooming business from a cabin at home.
I do keep paperwork but just what I need for records. People have come back to me for another puppy because they have been so delighted with us and their dog.
The people that do come to me are happy that my dogs and the puppies live a normal family environment. Do people really have a fire escape plan on their wall in this situation???? Surely not. 
When someone comes to my house they get jumped on as they so want to be with people. Within a minute or so they are all lying around content they are with their people.
Perhaps the KC would be better acting as a secret shopper and seeing how I try to put people off the breed first as part of my test. That would be a truer reflection of my attitude as a breeder than setting my house up to perfection because I know a visit is pending.  So I agree with others this is a box ticking exercise and in no way confirms someone is a good, not so good or a rubbish breeder. T
To my mind a bad breeder is people who overbreed, perhaps from dogs too young or too old. If litters are not all registered the KC would not know of course. Puts 2 dogs together regardless of what will be produced, ( including just 2 pets ). Does not give the emotional and loving support a dog needs. Does not do anything about health problems and keeps dogs and puppies in normally poor conditions.
Some of this can be sorted before a visit and some of it may not be obvious. I have no objection to visits at all but hope the people who visit are armed with a dose of common sense and intuition rather than just a set of questions and boxes to tick.

Hazenaide, your set-up sounds exactly like many others, all of whom have passed their inspection. I don't know where the idea that Assured Breeders' premises have to be set up like a licenced boarding kennel, but it simply isn't true.

I think the 'secret shopper ' is an excellent idea. It has been far too easy for ABS members whose practices fall far short of the standards that they should espouse to deceive inspectors . Puppy buyers have reported to me and others their shock when they visited  these breeders and were witness to insanitary conditions with adult dogs stacked  in small cages/crates -one person described 'lobster pots . We are talking medium to large pastoral breed. The 14 day notice of inspection gave such breeders time to employ cleaning companies and time to distribute dogs elsewhere. So, great news that inspection process in more arduous and assiduous. Okay, a lot of it sounds a bit 'tick box'  -I don't have a fire escape nor indeed an evacuation plan on every wall of the house. We are a family home after all but do have fire extinguishers , fire blankets and smoke alarms . Incidentally , did you know that more people suffer serious injury testing their smoke alarms than die or are injured in house fires ? Not saying you shouldn't test them , of course you should but take care !
Anyway, I'm not planning to have a litter until late summer 2014 . And yes, I shall be applying to remain on the scheme  -initially I thought not. I would not welcome a visit at the present time. My garden and home are in a terrible state due to the mud trailed in by my Sussex Swamp Hounds. We are mudbound here.

I had an inspection in November 12 and as I expected all OK. I still think , ( and we all value notice of any visit ) there will be breeders who come through the scheme who alter things for their inspection.
I too have had people come to me who have either contacted an Assured breeder and decided not to go there, or have been there and gone elsewhere so it is something they will never get perfect. All I would ask for is common sense in all the ticks, boxes and rules.

Jeangenie I have seen the inspection report and improvement letter from someone in my breed, and the criteria are as stated check boxes of all sorts of largely irrelevant items to a normal home, yet still marked, no room for N/A..

I would be very interested in seeing what the new inspections are like for someone with kennels. One or 2 dogs in someone's house is a very different type of visit compared to someone with more animals. I think most of us with any kennels at all do not necessarily have an establishment like a large commercial breeder yet not everyone who is an AB only has a couple of bitches indoors.
the person visited said they would be far happier buying from another AB who had been rigorously questioned on inspection and although I understand where they are coming from surely ultimately it is the quality of the PUPPY that should be of importance too but never is. Very many breeds have no health tests at all required to be an AB, including mine, despite being HP, so someone out of the scheme who DOES health test, would still be the better breeder for me.

I dont know how to do quotes but in reply to:

"I have a question, do they advise you of the evidence they will require, after all you may not have a lot of it to hand.

Especially if like many you have recently had a new computer,(lost email contacts as they don't transfer over with other data), lost data, (as happened to a friend who was then assessed on what little she had, and got a drubbing re paperwork, even though she redid loads and sent it on later), or still do everything by hand as and when required, and many not keep many items, other than new owners names and addresses, contracts, and your dogs registrations and vaccination certs (do all of you keep all details of vet visits??)."

This was the first email I was sent:
Thank you for replying, the Regional Breeder Assessor is there to see how you comply with the Scheme.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/8866/abs_application_form_2014.pdf
The RBA will sit down with you an explain everything they are looking at and why. I can explain briefly they will be checking your dogs and will ask if you microchip to scan one or two dogs. They will review your paperwork any records kept, litter details, food, day to day questions about exercise. They will run through your whelping area (or see if you have a litter). There is more information about the visit process on the Kennel Club website:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/breeding/experienced-breeder/assured-breeder-scheme/kennel-club-breeder-assessors/breeder-assessor-visits/
If you have any questions please let me know.
Kind Regards

And this was the second one:

Further to your recent telephone conversation with our Assured Breeder Scheme Assessor, this letter is to confirm that they are scheduled to visit you on Tuesday 7th January 2014 at 15:30. The purpose of the visit will be to assess how you fulfil the requirements of the Assured Breeder Scheme and ensure the Scheme continues to benefit both you as a Kennel Club Assured Breeder and prospective purchasers of Kennel Club registered dogs.
Visits usually take around 1 ½ - 2 hours to complete. The Assessor will discuss with you all aspects of your breeding program from how you choose your breeding dogs to how you rear your puppies and the everyday routines that you adopt. We will also want to know what breeding records you keep and how you keep your dogs, how they are fed, where they sleep and how and where you rear your puppies.
Some of the aspects that the Assessor would like to see, and discuss with you are:

    Facilities that you have available (dogs' accommodation, lighting, heat, etc)
    General daily procedures including health and safety routines
    General cleanliness, including food preparation
    Condition of animals including their general well-being, exercise routines and general behaviour
    Breeding records and any register of dogs kept on the premises

They will need to take away sample copies of:
    Your current contract of sale
    Name and address of your usual veterinary practice.
    Copies of the written advice that you currently provide to your puppy buyers which should include advice on
        breed specific tendencies and traits
        grooming
        socialisation, exercise and training information
        feeding advice/diet sheet, and
        advice on immunisation and worming)

Please note that if copies of the above details 1 to 3 are not available the Assessor will need to take away originals which will be copied to be held on file, and the originals will be returned to you.

The Assessor also will bring with them a copy of your current statement of experience under the ABS and ask you to confirm that it is up to date.

During the course of the visit they will complete a summary report which you will be required to sign as confirmation of the visit, and a copy of the full report will be sent to you together with any comments or suggestions. The visit is expected to take up to 2 hours and we hope that you will find it a beneficial and useful experience. Please do not hesitate to ask the Assessor about any aspect of the scheme.

Please see the following link for more information on the scheme requirements and expectations:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/8866/absappform.pdf

Also, please see the following link for a PDF Document outlining the breed-specific health testing requirements:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/9846/abshealthreqs.pdf

Hope that helps

Alfieshmalfie I just want to say thankyou for going to so much time and trouble to post about your visit.

I for one have found it very informative, it has given me a good idea of what the assessor will be looking at and set my mind at ease. I think it's the fear of the unknown which makes the idea of a visit a little scary, although I have nothing to hide.....my dogs all live in the house and are pets first and foremost...... I at least now know what paperwork to print out prior to their visit!

Remember that they want people to pass. :-)

that is exactly the problem. They Do want everyone to pass whether or not the animals they are breeding are good specimens or not. The vast majority of AB's are novice breeders or people with one pet bitch that they may have 1 litter from. The KC actively promote this as a good thing, the vast majority of AB's breed only once every 3 years or so. There is nothing wrong with anyone wanting to do things to the best of their abilities but sometimes the words "assured BREEDER" does not really fit the bill. Compare most of these people with breeders who have been in their breed for many years, probably show, belong to clubs and no doubt serve on committees. These people probably have their own stud dogs too. These people to me are BREEDERS as opposed to someone who takes 1 litter, maybe ever. I always thought that until these stalwarts of the breed embrace the AB scheme it meant nothing.
From what I saw the members are mostly pet people breeding a pet bitch (that sounds rude but you know what I mean) or people 1 step down from a puppy farmer doing it for respectability and as I said before the quality of the animals is often poor and they don't even have an affix.
A lot of people do not want to stand shoulder to shoulder with either group. I have tried for years to tell the KC that many people want more emphasis on health testing being necessary for any AB . At another meeting it was strongly thought that all AB's should have an affix. Another idea was that belonging to a breed club should be requirement not an accolade but none of these ideas were adopted as it is very important to swell the number of members. When you look at it 8,000 out of all the people who breed is a very small percentage isn't it after all the years it has been in effect.

Because some of us have our dogs with the run of the house and keep until old age we have to limit numbers so am not sure what is wrong with only breeding once every few years rather than more frequently.
I am with you on not thinking people that have a litter from a pet bitch should be AB's and do think that affiliation or membership to a breed club should be a mandatory requirement as it shows an interest in the breed as a whole. One of our breed clubs does not allow you to be listed as a breeder until you have been a member for 3 years for example - no exceptions.
I understood required health testing was mandatory. It was certainly checked when  had my visit.
Being an AB should mean you stand out from the rest in many respects. Not that everyone joins the club as the norm.
In my case I have passed the test to date from a visit. Serve on a breed club committee, am the rescue co-ordinator for our area, show my dogs and obviously don't just use one from round the corner taking pedigrees into account , and help out where I can at our trimming classes and social events for members. IMO that makes me a super douper AB by comparison to some people who are members!!! I think more evidence should be taken of people's involvement and interest in furthering the breed should be noted for example, a breeder could be vouched for by a club Secretary. I am not suggesting this would make you on its own an AB but would demonstrate that you are not just breeding dogs for the sake of it but that you are in it for the long term. This would mean more to me than whether I could see everyone had their own bed. I've got one who never chooses to sleep on a bed.
This - everyone must be in the club - is the thing that when the scheme started I did not expect. I thought it would make people who bother to show and try and further the breed would indeed stand apart. This is not what has happened and will not happen if there is an intent just to increase numbers. 

>They Do want everyone to pass whether or not the animals they are breeding are good specimens or not.

The longterm plan (according to government sources) is that all puppies, of any parentage, should be raised in good, hygienic conditions to healthy parents. 'Good specimens' (I assume you mean 'show quality', but correct me if I'm wrong!) is rather irrelevant in this situation. This is what the KC sensibly realises and is trying to incorporate into the scheme, so that when the law changes (as it will) and requires all puppies born to be on some form of registry, the KC gets the 'contract' and not the RSPCA!

I take your point but the Kennel Club could have 2 groups of breeders because I still feel that the more astute general public are looking for some marker that puts them in the direction of people that are experienced, knowledgeable and of course keep their dogs in suitable, comfortable conditions. I do not think the current scheme gives them all of that. I cannot look at the list of AB breeders in my breed and say I could recommend them and I should be able to do that.
Yes they may be great breeders and have wonderful dogs, but I do not know them and I am in a very small numerically breed. As I deal with rescue I am often asked to recommend a breeder and I always say people must satisfy themselves about the way they feel about someone but I am genuinely shocked at the number of AB's on the list and how many I have never heard of.

I've had dogs of two breeds, from the same two groups for the past 35 years.

I now breed a litter once a year, sometimes one litter in two years, I health test and have good results. If I buy a puppy in for any reason, I buy from show breeders and from Champion winning lines, something I've always done because I like to think I have decent examples of the breed, studs I use the same. I'd like to think my puppies are good specimens of the breed, they aren't bred with the dog down the road without health tests and 5 legs! I study stud dogs, see them in the flesh at shows (spectator only) and distance for mating isn't considered.

Looking at previous posts, because I don't show or compete in any way, I'm not on any breed club committees, only have one litter a year and have bitches that are foremost pets and live in the home, I'm just one step away from being a back yard breeder or puppy farmer and shouldn't really be in the ABS scheme! I find that quite insulting to be honest.

When I first received my letter about the new fees and explaining the frequency of visits I wasn't sure I wanted to carry on in the scheme, but then I thought, actually....I do. I want to know that I've officially reached the standards required to be in the scheme and I want puppy buyers to know that too.

> Looking at previous posts, because I don't show or compete in any way, I'm not on any breed club committees, only have one litter a year and have bitches that are foremost pets

So what are your reasons for breeding then?