Are there any cocker spaniel breeders/exhibitors/judges who can tell me their opinion on U.S.-bred ENGLISH cocker spaniels? I know there are small differences between cockers from the US and the UK, and I'd like to know what some of the criticisms are of US-bred cockers from British cocker people. Thanks!

I'd say (over)presentation probably clouds the issue, unless you've had your hands on actual dogs to make a true comparison.

We have quite a close interest in the US show scene for English Cockers - we imported a US bred ECS a while back (though she has a lot of old UK breeding) and are showing her daughter. Two litter mate brothers we bred are now being campaigned in the US with one being close to his title. As Brainless says, presentation does cloud the issue but in reality there are US breeders breeding close to UK type (and trying to maintain that type) and others who breed the flashy more Settery type since these do better under their all rounder judges. Common faults include lack of spring of rib, lack of bone, over long stifles, straight forehand angulation etc BUT not all US dogs have these faults, there are some excellent ECS over there who would win easily in the UK (if presented and handled in the UK style).

Sounds a lot like our breed.

So Poochlover, did my answer help you? If you ask a question, it's quite nice to respond to any replies you might get ;-)

Thank you, Jane, for your descriptive response! I appreciate it. I've always noticed US-bred cockers are less compact and have straighter croups than British ones. I'm glad to learn some American breeders are producing correct specimens! Just for fun, I've posted pictures of the top ECS in the US and the UK 2013 championship winner so people could compare them. I'd like to get people's feedback on which dog they believe is the better one.

This is the American ECS: http://www.foxwoodskennel.com/index.php?page=caitlyn

Here's the British one: http://www.elefebo.com/Crufts11/Canigou_Love_On_The_Rocks.jpg

First time I went to the Spaniel Club Show in the USA about 18 years ago I was amazed at the English Cockers - didn't acutally realise what they were,so big for  astart and they looked like small Setters, but the last time I was over there, about 5 years ago the  difference between the English And American types was much less noticeable, apart form the presentation.

Interesting you mention croups as this has been discussed recently on a group I'm a member of and actually many US ECS do have correct croups (ie as per the UK standard) but they will often leave a pad of hair on top to give the illusion of a straight croup because this is what many of the non breed specialist judges want (even though totally incorrect for the breed!)

I wouldn't like to comment on which dog is better from a photo - as with any breed, you need to get your hands on a dog to assess their qualities as a two dimensional photo can't possibly tell you what you need to know about bone, substance etc (particularly where presentation/show stacking is so different in each country). I don't think the photo of the black Canigou girl is the best I've seen either so would not be fair to judge her on that particular pic. Incidentally the top Cocker in the UK for 2013 is a dark blue roan dog, Sh Ch Charbonnel Life N Times and the top bitch is I believe Sh Ch Dillonpark Peroni (who was given a CC by an American judge only a few months ago)

If a judge is not versed in every breed standard in a group, they have no business judging. Incompetent judges award faulty dogs, which in turn leads breeders to reproduce those winning albeit incorrect qualities, and then you see the destruction of a breed. Does the UK have a problem as well with all-breed judges or group judges who don't know what they're doing?

The Charbonnel dog was so handsome! Where can I look up all breed rankings in the UK? For US dogs, there's dognews.com, and I know the website for breed rankings in Australia as well, but don't know it for UK dogs.

Thanks again, Jane!

Does the UK have a problem as well with all-breed judges or group judges who don't know what they're doing?

Oh yes!  :(

Not sure about breed rankings as such but Dog World run a Top Dog points competition in the UK. Here are the provisional results for 2013:

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/106336

This I find is the problem in countries where breed entries in al breeds are small, the generic show dog, and the vast majority of judges are all breed judges doing most or all of a group.

With small breed entries people are not satisfied with a breed win, they are looking for group success, and will breed the kind of dogs that will win at that level.

In my breed this often means over size dogs, with correct size being "too small for the group".  Also exaggerated flashy movement, with over angulated rears.