Normally, Papillons have classes, but at an open show I'm planning to go to next year, they don't. I normally enter AV too so if I am a AVNSC breed can I enter AV too? Thanks!

EDIT; just seen they only have AV Toy Veteran so can't enter it anyway. But might be useful for other people/future shows :)

I'm pretty sure you should be able to enter both....

Yes.  You can enter AV AND AVNSC.   But if you happen to go BOB from the Breed Class and get knocked out in AV, which can happen!, you'd forfeit your qualification to go into the Group or for BIS (or BPIG/BPIS if applicable).   Personally if there are no Breed classes, I'd stick with AVNSC.

What you have to remember is AVNSC is only alternative for breed classes, and should be treated as such.

Yes, entering both is fine. Something I have noticed (living in the north) the majority of AV classes are scheduled after the group, it seems that the further south you go the more often the AV classes are scheduled before the group making using of AVP being a qualifier for the Puppy group.

But you are allowed to withdraw from AV should you win BOB, in order to remain unbeaten, so presumably you can do the same if you win BAVNSC. :-)

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">so presumably you can do the same if you win BAVNSC. :-)

No AVNSC is a (substitute for) breed class, you have to enter breed classes or AVNSC.  The only exception is if there is no puppy class or you have a veteran or champion.

Yes, but surely if you can win BOB and withdraw from AV to remain unbeaten for the Group, you should be able to win BAVNSC and then withdraw from AV to remain unbeaten for the Group in the same way, that's what I meant.

Ah I see, the way I read it, it looked like you were saying you can withdraw from AVNSC.

I thought the withdrawal from AV classes was confined to BOB/BIG & BPIB/BPIG winners & not best of AVNSC classes

That's what I'm not sure about - it would seem rather unfair to allow BOB to withdraw from AV but not allow BAVNSC. But as I show a popular breed I've never been in AVNSC so it's a bit of an unknown to me. :-)

You treat AVNSC exactly like breed classes for which they are substitutes. 

We don't get our own breed classes that often.

So presumably I'm right in my guess and BAVNSC can withdraw from AV to remain unbeaten for the Group, same as BOB can?

The KC rules only mention BOB/BIG/BPIB/BPIG no mention of BAVNSC so I would presume the withdrawal rule doesn't apply to the NSC classes

NSC classes again are breed classes, and treated as such.

Don't often have breed classes for my breed so usually enter avnsc toy and av toy if scheduled and have always withdrawn from av if my dogs get either best of breed or best puppy. As others have said avnsc are treat exactly the same as breed classes

I always thought that you wd still have to do av classes if u were avnsc. Though I wd only do avnsc mysepf.