I am so disappointed. I know it is a risk with a dog not used before but he was the dog I wanted to use.
Not inexperienced breeders.
I went yesterday and it came to nothing. Not even close as he just did not seem to get in the right position although she was standing well for her first time.
They are at LKA to-day and so I cannot go again until tomorrow and I am wondering whether to go or not as it is quite a journey.
After waiting all this time I am feeling very flat right now.

Firstly is she definitely ready ?  Day 15 would be too soon for my girls

If she has been progesterone tested and you know she is in breeding window try and manage his enthusiasm - let them play and first then have him on a lead. Have someone hold the bitches head and a third person positioned to side. Walk dog to bitches rear and one he mounts stud handler stand behind dog to encourage him to get well over her back. Person in middle place hand under bitches vulva and with second and third finger tip vulva up to dog to help his aim.

If dog is reluctant to get himself well over the bitch stand her with her bum close to a wall so he has to get close to mount her.

If he is thrusting and not getting close to spot, left him off walk him away then start again.

Good luck

>Firstly is she definitely ready ?  Day 15 would be too soon for my girls <br />

Yes to soon or only just ready for most of mine, one was progesterone tested and found to only be approaching ovulation on day 17.  Mated day 18 - 22 for all three litters.

>place hand under bitches vulva and with second and third finger tip vulva up to dog to help his aim. <br />

Had to do this with my Jozi who insisted on thrusting when dog tried to mount :)

Well a lot has happened over a couple of days.
Had a phone call Sunday from the dogs owner. They had not gone to LKA but had been up over night because the dog was crying and had his tail down which is very unlike him. I am good friends with these people as well and they wanted me to go to them to see if it perked the dog up. Now there and back was quite a journey and I said did they really think there was a realistic chance of this happening and at that point they asked if I had a back up. Which I didn't at that point.
Now I am in a breed where good dogs don't fall off trees in fact not at all nowadays. I decided if it was OK with them I would use the Champion dog that I had used for her Mum ( I didn't keep a pup because I lost 2 of the 3 girls), They of course were at LKA and had a late night so after ringing and ringing it was about 7.30 when I finally got them. They said OK and arrangements made to go next morning.
But now I am day 17. We got a tie within 5 minutes. Now I have to decide whether to go again or not - heck of a journey and stopped for a sleep both ways - and if I do should it be to-day or tomorrow?
Interesting what you have said about being early as we are saying the timing seems to be getting later in the breed. Where did Book of the Bitch and others 12 days go???

Bitches can vary from season to season when they are ready. For instance I had one who was mated on day 9 and 11 the first time. The second time we travelled very far and tried mating on days 12 and 13, the dog was not interested at all and we had no way to stay so had to go home. Used a different dog on day 15 and got a litter.

I've also had pups from matings on day 5 and 8. The second time that bitch was mated it was from day 10 to 14. So big differences again.

I appreciate the nuisance of the long journey, and 1 tie should be enough, specially as 17 days is late-ish, but bitches do vary so much even from season to season, if it was me I would go again 2 days after the first mating, then at least I would know I had tried my best to get her in whelp. :-)

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Where did Book of the Bitch and others 12 days go???

I do wonder if perhaps in the past people did not really spot day 1, with many dogs kennelled, and people perhaps not dab testing like we often do with the run up to seasons.  Perhaps if they waited until there were really obvious signs of blood etc the bitches were in fact in several days.

Personally all mine have been pretty reliable within a day or two as to when they were ready.  Never had an early one, any mated before day 14 have missed.

I imagine it is taken as the average of successes, the middle of a large or small window of opportunity.

If you're ONLY going to do it ONCE then day 12 would be statistically the best day to catch the biggest number of bitches.
Having said that, I've had pregnancies from day 7 through to day 18.

Just got back, nightmare journey. I use a Draminski and consulted with them about readings and he also thought I could be content with one mating but decided to go again later to-day.
Now I wait but I think I have given it my best shot in the circumstances. I have never had before 14 days because never felt mine were ready.

>I have never had before 14 days because never felt mine were ready

Fingers and paws crossed for you then.  Good Luck.  :-)

Thanks all, I'll let you know.

Did you get a 2nd mating in the end then? Sorry the journey was so horrible. :-( Fingers crossed!

Yes I did - the next day. Now waiting as I say.
Only 1 week and 3 days ago but impatient already LOL

Thought I would let you know that I had my girl scanned to-day and she is carrying puppies. My vet does not do numbers but we saw 4 close together and straight away so hoping all will go well from  now on. So 17/18 days was a successful mating after all.

Well we have also just had one mating on day 17 (bitch keen from day 15 but her suitor wantd to wait), and by day 19 she was Lukewarm and we called it a day.

Based on whelping dates from her first two litters he should have been spot on.

Woo hoo  great  news :)

Yay, lucky you!!