For those of you not on Facebook,there was a horrific accident on the M40 early this morning. Dog showing exhibitors had broken down in their motor home and we're on the hard shoulder. They had 12 dogs with them and their kennel helper. They were waiting over 3 hours for RAC to come. However in that time they were hit by an HTV, their motor home a complete write off, 3 dogs killed and their assistant is in intensive care.
They are okay. My reason for this post is to ask you to all check with your recovery services that they WILL take your dog's if you are broken down.Sadly in this case they would not.So very sad and if the rac had recovered them this would have had a happy ending.

Very sad :( someone in our sport had an accident last year, truck and caravan turned over (all written off) on the motorway. They lost one of four dogs and were lucky not to lose them all by the sound of it, as they all got loose :( frightening.

A very sad incident indeed, and my heart goes out to those involved.  The RAC seem to be having quite a hard time of it for not responding sooner, I did want to say though that when we broke down a few years ago coming home from Stoneleigh with 3 dogs and 3 children aboard they were great.  They were very quick to respond and were made away of us having the dogs with us, it was a very hot day and I think they came out quicker more for us having the dogs than the children!  We weren't towed, but could have been and no mention was made of them not taking us home due to the dogs.

Looking at the devastation caused to the motor home has made me very aware of how similar the construction is to a caravan giving very little protection.

It appears there are NO recovery services at all that will allow you to take your dogs in their recovery vehicle now. At best they will let you leave them in your own vehicle. When we broke down at a show during the hottest day of the year this summer the AA said we would have to leave our 3 dogs in our van. We refused, as it would be far too dangerous, not being able to know if they were overheating or not. (The van was already so hot we could not sit in it.) Surely it would be illegal as well! In the end we had to wait for many hours, until the sun had gone down and it was safe to transport the dogs in our own vehicle on top of the flat bed truck. We were lucky that we were safe in the show car park though. Once home again we checked with the RAC, Green Flag and also the Show Start company whose entire selling point is they let you take the dogs in the recovery vehicle with you.  RAC and Green Flag are like AA, no animals in the recovery vehicle. Show Start said they could take one dog but definitely not 3 if we had been to a show. Which beggars the question of what the point of them IS. So it seems to me there is a huge gap in the market here. And above all, I hope the RAC get a LOT of bad publicity over this!!!

Does anyone know how the accident happened? I know they were on the hard shoulder and a HGV went into them but how? Surely the accident to blame lays at the HGV and or driver of it if driver error.
Accidents happen and they could of been safe if the next recovery vehicle had reached them and this HGV hadn't ended up in the back of the camper van.

I know people with other recovery companies who have broken down with dogs have been told either no the driver won't help or they have to remain in the vehicle.
This goes for all major recovery companies.

I personally don't think its fair to apportion all blame onto the recovery company here.

Such a sad run of events which no one could foresee happening :-(

So many different stories out there. Not sure how correct this is, but the impression I have got from reading is that the RAC arrived, refused to help because of the dogs, then they were told they had to wait one hour until another RAC driver would arrive, ended up waiting 3 hours at side of motorway when the logical option would have been for the first RAC man to tow them off the motorway to safety or to at least call the police for help -this happened to us once, and the first thing the AA did was move us off the motorway.

One of the many stories circulating is that the motorhome was too large for the attending RAC van to tow so they had to send for another. Aboslutely nothing about the incident on the local news (I'm local to the area) which surprises me.

The girl in intensive care is reported to have a fractured femur, collapsed lung and three spinal fractures. :-(

How awful for those involved. Surely the vehicle could've been put on a flat bed lorry with the dogs still in it? If I broke down my priority would be to get people and dogs out of the vehicle and well out of the way of traffic well away from the hard shoulder. I carry stakes and spare leads in the car. If the dogs were in crates it would be easier to do.

I was very low on fuel and had to fill up from a can on the M25 hard shoulder once and it was terrifying.

Absolutely terrible, I've seen a pic of the wreckage on fb and it's a miracle any of them survived. :-( I imagine it must be pretty hard for a breakdown vehicle to cope with 12 dogs, but surely they could have got them off the motorway or made them a higher priority. :-(

My daughter and son-in-law hired a large motorhome this summer to take the dogs to Bournemouth Champ Show.  It was monopoly money for 2 nights but they wanted to try one and they loved it.

On the way home, through the New Forest, they noticed the red light on, indicating that the engine was overheating.
They were outside a Sainsburys and so drove in there to do some shopping and let it cool down.  Inspection showed that there was oil in the rad water - engine needed a new gasket and so wasn't going to get them home!
They had food, water, warmth and the dogs had some grass at the side of the car park so quite comfortable.

The AA man came within 30 minutes but their motorhome was too large to go on his low loader.  Why, when the call is first taken and information given, the size of the vehicle is not noted I don't know!  They were told that there was only one vehicle in the country suitable for taking that size of motorhome and that was at Membury Services!
They had to wait a further couple of hours for it to arrive but the driver was both helpful, pleasant and accomodating - he suggested that the 3 big, hairy Rough Collies travelled in the cab with them!

They arrived home at midnight - not quite the weekend that they were expecting, but thankfully all OK.

They had to wait a further couple of hours for it to arrive but the driver was both helpful, pleasant and accomodating - he suggested that the 3 big, hairy Rough Collies travelled in the cab with them!

They were very lucky to come across an AA man who still allowed dogs in their vehicle, they should not do so now, and in fact if you read their policy they don't have to agree to take an animal at all, unless a guide dog or similar. (This is what we were told as well, had our dogs been guide dogs they'd have been fine. Which made me ask the question, why would a blind person need their guide dog when travelling in the back of an AA truck? What's the difference between a guide dog and a pet under those circumstances? None that I can see as the blind person would not need to move at all.) See page 18:
http://www.theaa.com/resources/Documents/pdf/breakdown-cover/terms-and-conditions-current.pdf

I also can't help but wonder -had our dogs been fluffy and friendly looking, would they have taken them?! 3 Malinois don't exactly LOOK like a friendly pet dog.

I hope it was because the breakdown vehicle could not tow the size of camper van, but why didn't the original one sit behind them with their lights flashing waiting for the next vehicle that could??? Or call the police so VOSA could come out and sit there behind the van, but it is all supposition as to what happened.
I broke down once at Warcop on the A66, my clutch had gone, middle of nowhere, I had roadside and relay to the nearest garage only. This was 5pm on a saturday evening. the AA man couldnt fix it, but the nearest garage was in a small village that was closed and no call out, he towed me 20 miles down the road to Penrith and left me at a servce area where I could have somewhere to stay, eat drink etc. I had my 2yo and 6ypo with me. He didnt have to do that, he could have abandoned me in that village as per protocol but he didnt (My friend who I was going to stay with arranged for a garage to come and pick my car up and tow it back and fix it so all was good )
But the AA man did the decent thing and made sure I was safe!!!
I hope everyone recovers well xx
Lea x

> I also can't help but wonder -had our dogs been fluffy and friendly looking, would they have taken them?! 3 Malinois don't exactly LOOK like a friendly pet dog.

Same worries here, with two that loosely resemble "Alsatians" *cough* !
I'm going to ring my breakdown people and ask what their protocol is. I'm with Britannia as they are connected to my insurers, and the garage two doors along from my house is a recovery agent for them (so if I broke down locally, it would be them who came out). I'm wondering if carrying muzzles in the car with me might put peoples' minds at rest in the event of an emergency.

http://www.prprescue.com/html/showstart.html

This links was put on Facebook earlier today, they offer a recovery service for pet owners.

the people in question are carrie russell smith and lisa croft elliott going to back to back corgi club champshows in wales reports from the show are one poodle dead one chinese crested dead one cardigan dead one other dog broken legs and the loose dogs have been recovered, they had broken down in a big mobile home like a winnibago and were hit from the rear end

But if you look on their website they are now linked to RAC which were the ones that were involved
as the rescue company in the M40 incident...

As has already been pointed out I don't think there are any breakdown companies which cover pets being
in the cabs etc. when 'rescued' it's up to the driver etc.

Certainly a gap in the market.

From the RSPCA website

>Under the Animal Welfare Act you have a legal duty to care for your animal and if you put your animal at risk, you could face prosecution. You >would also have to live with the fact that your actions resulted in terrible suffering for your pet.

If you were prevented from travelling your dogs in the cab of a recovery vehicle, despite your pleas and requests, and had no other way of getting to safety, and the dogs died of heat stroke, who would be prosecuted?     The dog's owner, or the recovery company who could have allowed the dogs in the cab if they really wanted?

It would be interesting to know the official line on this as it seems that recovery companies are refusing to allow restrained dogs in the cab in cases where they easily could allow it.

Perhaps the way to go is to get in writing that the driver and company would not allow your dogs in the safety of the cab, just in case of suffering and death of the dogs?   Perhaps a written proforma for the driver to sign?

So sad to read of the losses and injury that have happened :(

I mentioned Show Start earlier on in this thread -they're no use unless you only travel with one or two dogs.

If you were prevented from travelling your dogs in the cab of a recovery vehicle, despite your pleas and requests, and had no other way of getting to safety, and the dogs died of heat stroke, who would be prosecuted?

When the AA told us to put our dogs in our van unattended on the hottest day of the year, for over 3 hours, I threatened them with the RSPCA, newspapers, TV and all sorts as I told them it would be illegal to subject dogs to this. They couldn't have cared less, just said it was policy not to allow dogs in their vehicles and the law said I could not travel with them whilst our van was being transported.

Oh and edited to say. I also told them how our dogs were extremely valuable showdogs worth thousands each (well they wouldn't know!) and that if they died I would sue them. It was like talking to a brick wall.

Having watched events unfold on Facebook this morning, I don't understand how no one was alerted to the fact three women and a large vehicle were stationary on the hard shoulder in the early hours of the morning in the dark and therefore at danger for themselves and others nor was there a vehicle able to tow them to safety off the motorway.

Surely the police should of been alerted and present.  That said, they may still of been unable to prevent the lorry ploughing into them!

It is a serious concern that I pay my money to a recovery company and in an emergency, I may still be left stranded because of the dogs although I do understand them not wanting them in their cabs, especially with multiple dogs, and in today's tragic accident, there were 12 dogs to be accommodated. 

> Having watched events unfold on Facebook this morning, I don't understand how no one was alerted to the fact three women and a large vehicle were stationary on the hard shoulder in the early hours of the morning in the dark and therefore at danger for themselves and others nor was there a vehicle able to tow them to safety off the motorway.

This is entirely my concern too!
The advice is that people should leave the vehicle and get over the barrier away from the hard shoulder - well, I may not have been a driver for very long, but I have spent a lifetime as a passenger staring out of the left window, and what the driver of a car doesn't see, is how impractical that can be - sometimes the land over the barrier is a steep grassy cliff, or in some cases a sheer drop!

And in the dark, could they see anything? What were the risks of suffering from exposure?
The ladies - I am sure - thought that rescue would come sooner rather than later... I can't blame them for not wanting to sit out the 3 hour wait in cold frozen grass.

>When the AA told us to put our dogs in our van unattended on the hottest day of the year, for over 3 hours, I threatened them with >the RSPCA, newspapers, TV and all sorts as I told them it would be illegal to subject dogs to this. They couldn't have cared less, >just said it was policy not to allow dogs in their vehicles and the law said I could not travel with them whilst our van was being >transported.

I would like to see actual legislation which states this.   I could be wrong, but I very much doubt there's actual legislation to prevent them taking our dogs in the cab.     However, there is actual legislation regarding knowingly leaving dogs in a hot car and knowingly causing suffering and death.

My guess is that it may be more to do with their insurance not covering it, or just their own policy.

It's surprising how often 'the law' is quoted, but on proper investigation, it turns out either there's no legislation, or it has been misinterpreted to have meaning that is not there.

I could be wrong, but I very much doubt there's actual legislation to prevent them taking our dogs in the cab. 

Sorry, you misunderstood me -probably didn't make it clear: they said it was now their policy not to take animals in the cab, and when I replied that in that case I would travel in our van with the dogs to be able to keep an eye on them in the heat, they told me THAT was illegal -which I believe is true. No human to travel in a vehicle being transported on a flatbed truck. (Which beggars the question -if it is so unsafe for humans, why is it so safe for dogs?!)

No person can travel in a towed caravan either. It's not that it's safer for dogs to travel like that, but remember that in law dogs are just commodities. :-(

> but remember that in law dogs are just commodities

Yes - it could have been 12 sheep and we wouldn't expect the RAC/AA to have them in the cab. As much as I feel this was a terrible incident, I can't help feeling that we are all responsible for planning what would happen in certain situations. I only have 2 dogs so quite easy to remove them from my car and get them to a place of safety, but for someone travelling with 12 dogs had they ever thought how they could evacuate them in emergency - what would have happened if the vehicle was on fire or broke down in hot weather ?

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/104798

Ahh now I understand :-)

So used to hearing "it's the law"  or "it's against the law"  when it's nothing of the sort though ;)

Yes, I understand how it's illegal to travel in a towed vehicle, caravans included. 

And yes, if it's unsafe for humans than how can it be safe for dogs?

I still would like to know where you/we, and the recovery company would stand were the dogs in the car to die of the heat?    It isn't as if it would be an accident ;)  

Having read the page on the link, was amazed to read this in the comments

>the lorry would have been doing the mechanically limited motorway speed of 56mph.

Now I'm not the fasted driver in the world, but I have been known to drive at 70 on motorways and am always being passed by HGV's going much much faster.   How is this possible if their speed is mechanically limited?   Am I dreaming that I'm driving faster than I really am?   

>Now I'm not the fasted driver in the world, but I have been known to drive at 70 on motorways and am always being passed by HGV's going much much faster.   How is this possible if their speed is mechanically limited?   Am I dreaming that I'm driving faster than I really am?  

Alot of lorries are limited to 56 miles an hour, but alot are not. You will see on the back of the lorry, stickers saying limited :)
Most foreign lorrys are not limited as they are allowed to travel at faster speeds abroad :)
HTH
Lea :)

I read about this in dogworld, those poor people and dogs.

We're with auto national, they use local recovery people rather than having there own. When we broke down at crufts last year it took a total of 6 hours to get towed away, it was just me (a young lady) and my dog so should be classed as high priority, also had no heat as car wouldn't start. First a guy in a van came started it and it broke again as soon as I drove it, he fixed it twice more then when it broke just befor the car park exit, he said I had to call auto national to get them to send a tow truck. The company they called just never turned up and claimed to know nothing when they called them and refused to send someone out (I think it was because we live in south wales so a long drive). Luckily in the end the security people at the car park let us sit in there office as we both were shaking as the car window opened then when the power went out was stuck open. They had to leave at 9pm and we didn't get towed until 12! So the NEC security guy came out to see me and they let me stay in the office by myself and he had the cameras watching the office and car and gave me there direct phone number. Anyway eventually a tow truck came they started the car twice and it broke each time then they left saying they would send a other guy to tow me for some reason. When he turned up I didn't even ask if I could bring the dog in the cab I just took her in (well after she gave him a piece of her mind, she was not in a good mood) and he said it was fine with him for her to be in there.

> Alot of lorries are limited to 56 miles an hour, but alot are not. You will see on the back of the lorry, stickers saying limited :-)
> Most foreign lorrys are not limited as they are allowed to travel at faster speeds abroad

Wrong.  All commercial HGV and that includes above 3.5 ton unless they are over 25 yrs old or emergency vehicles are limited to 56 mph according to EU law.  Private HGV (which includes motorhomes) up to 7.5 ton are allowed the National speed limit of 70 mph on motorways, 60 mph on dual carriageways (unless restricted) in the UK but this is lower in most mainland EU countries.  They are not allowed faster speeds abroad, 90 Kph is the EU standard for HGV commercial over 3.5 ton which equates to 56 mph, though some countries it is lower at 80 kph which is 49 mph.  It is not compulsory to have any sticker showing a maximum speed limit.  And all EU commercial trucks must have a tachograph fitted and drivers have to use a driver card.

> The AA man came within 30 minutes but their motorhome was too large to go on his low loader.  Why, when the call is first taken and information given, the size of the vehicle is not noted I don't know!  They were told that there was only one vehicle in the country suitable for taking that size of motorhome and that was at Membury Services!

What a load of rubbish.  Only one vehicle in the country capable of taking a large motorhome???  How do trucks and coaches over 3.5 ton get recovered?  There are ample recovery vehicles capable of taking anything over 3.5 ton all over the country by either towing or on a flat bed.

> All commercial HGV and that includes above 3.5 ton unless they are over 25 yrs old or emergency vehicles are limited to 56 mph according to EU law

Sorry should explain that although the highway code legal limit is 60 mph on motorways for over 7.5 t and 70 mph for up to 7.5 t this is superceded by the Road Traffic Act and EU law restricts tachographed vehicles to 56 mph.  Coaches oddly up to 12 m in length are the standard highway code limit of 60 on dual carriageways and 70 mph on motorways.

> Only one vehicle in the country capable of taking a large motorhome???

Going back to the present case, there is one factor which may or may not be of significance. The exhibitors' motorhome was German, meaning the exit door was on the OTHER side to UK campervans, i.e. opening onto the motorway side.

If there were people inside the body of the van, it may not have been safe to have them exit from that side, and the RAC may have refused to tow the vehicle with people inside it.

This is just another angle, which might have been a consideration.... OR NOT. But a consideration, nonetheless.

> Alot of lorries are limited to 56 miles an hour, but alot are not. You will see on the back of the lorry, stickers saying limited :-)
> Most foreign lorrys are not limited as they are allowed to travel at faster speeds abroad

>Wrong.

Harkback, I was talking about the lorries being limited to 56, where they cannot physically go above 56 miles an hour NOT the speed limit. Thats why some lorrys do shoot past at way above 50 limit that they should be doing!
Lea :)

I thought you might be interested in this. I picked it up from the motorhome forum I belong to

    

MH: 2007 Dethleffs Advantage

I am unable to read the posts as my situation is still too fragile.. But I feel the need to clarify some facts as I am one of the three ladies ... The dogs were all secured in custom made steel and or fibreglass crates that were custom made to fit our rig. The dogs were running down the motorway after our vehicle was hit and obliterated .
We have such a large rig because we take our entire family of dogs with us whenever we are off on a weekend jaunt.
We do not breed or show as a profession we have each been in dogs our entire lives.
The RAC was informed the dogs were in crates
The Motorhome had what I believe was a clutch/gearbox failure as it was still revving but no gears engaged.
We did get out but ad the temps were brutal we were forced back in to get warm
At all times we had all sidelights and flashers on
Repeated pleas were made to the RAC but they said they were having a hard time because the contractors were refusing to come
At no time did we ask if even one dog would be allowed in a recovery truck
Our dogs are our life and our kids - we did the best we could for them... Quite honestly evenif we had been sitting on the bank with the distance the chassis and debris was thrown we could have all been even more seriously injured, and I would never have been able recover witnessing my dogs being crushed.
Sincerely
Lisa Croft-Elliott

So very, very sad for all concerned.

Shame, SHAME on the RAC!!!!!!!!!

that has bought me to tears :(  this is a dreadful accident that should have been prevented

Shame on the contractors if they were refusing to go out.

Such a sad sad tale.  I always have leads in my car for the dogs and I always always carry spare blankets and coats.  I broke down once in the middle of winter and could only get my car to the chevrons between slip road and motorway.  I certainly was not going to stay in my car but had to wait some time for a flat bed to arrive to collect me.  I had coats but after that always made sure I had blankets too.  

I suspect one of the issues with having dogs in the van may be allergies.  A close school friend of mine lost her dad on holiday in Greece.  He had a severe allergy to horses and unbeknown to them the hotel entertainment that evening involved a horse.  He died virtually on instantly. 

If somone were to get in the cab after having dogs in there and have some sort of allergic reaction the RAC would be liable for that.  It's a tough place for them to be in I guess.  You could argue perhaps that if a dog owner worked for RAC they could provoke a reaction of the same sort.  There are no easy answers, and I suspect all concerned will be wondering if they perhaps could have done something different to change the outcome. 

Would the RAC have been a lot quicker and more diligent had there been children passengers?  Probably yes.  Shame on the RAC but it does not surprise me.  They have left me stranded twice in a car as a woman on her own, first for 4 hours the 2nd for 6 hours.  I cancelled my membership after that.  But I did have 3 yrs RAC cover on a new Fiat based motorhome which left me waiting for recovery for 24 hours due to a faulty alternator. The RAC mechanic came out, was there all of 5 minutes, said he would call a recovery vehicle.  I got a phone call from the RAC operations centre within 1 hour saying a recovery vehicle was on it's way.  Hours later no sign of it.  Called the RAC they had no record initially of anything, then miraculously found it after 20 minutes on the line.  Still no recovery vehicle, finally arrived after several more phone calls 24 hours later...the paper work the recovery vehicle had been sent by the RAC via fax was not even dated the same day I broke down!  They had actually not bothered to call any recovery for over 18 hours after the RAC mechanic left me stranded.

I have been following this too - the RAC have always given me good service and certainly got out quickly to me when I broke down with my grandchild in the car.  This accident is horrific - how anyone got out of it alive is a miracle.   I think I must pack more blankets (always keep a lead on my dogs anyway) and a warning triangle - perhaps may help - but not if that driver dropped off to sleep.   A shortage of police vehicles on that stretch of road is apparent.