I am probably going to let my dog be used for the first time next year. I wondered how people set stud fees for unproven dogs?

Do you wait for puppies to be confirmed or born? Do you ask for a lower fee as first time? In this breed price is usually the price of one puppy, but people are very coy about how they manage it.

If I may want to have a puppy from the litter, is it acceptable to say I would like to wait for the puppies to be born to 'possibly' have a puppy and if not a stud fee?

Thanks

Great questions - will read with interest.

May I add my own if that's not too rude which is to wonder if the bitches owners pays all costs if deciding to do the process by AI?

With my boy's first litter I asked a lower fee, to be paid when 2 or more puppies had been born and had lived for a week. I actually had a pup from this litter but paid the difference in price to his breeder.

Personally I would never have a pup as the stud fee, if I wanted one I would pay for it but then again in my main breed the stud fee isn't the price of a puppy.

My main piece of advice would be to make sure everything is discussed, written down and agreed before the mating takes place. I know of many a falling out over stud fees and puppy registrations because everything wasn't agreed before the puppies were born.

Again when I was approached for semen to be sent to Finland the bitch's owner paid for the repro expert's fees and transportation costs. She has had 2 litters from this one collection and because she only had boys in the first litter I didn't charge her a stud fee for the second one with a different bitch. She had 2 bitches in this second litter.
Again I think it all depends on the breed. When I was looking into repro experts and asking about what people normally do about the costs somebody at fit and fertile told me they have clients that pay for the collection and storage themselves in more popular breeds because they can sell the straws for £1000 a mating, something that would never happen in Vallhunds as we don't get the interest from abroad.

May I add my own if that's not too rude which is to wonder if the bitches owners pays all costs if deciding to do the process by AI?

It would be a very rare occurence in the UK inka, as it would only apply if semen was exported. You cannot use AI if the dog lives in the same country -unless it is either an Irish Wolfhound aged 7 or above, or is dead. So most of us would have no experience of it but if exporting anything I'd expect the buyer to pay all costs.

I wondered how people set stud fees for unproven dogs?

Same fee but only once pups are born. When I went out to stud the very first time, the stud owner told me she'd do things the old fashioned way and charge a much smaller fee, and only payable once the pups were born -but these days everyone else is charging the price of a pup no matter what.

If pups are born from an unproved dog then he is proved surly and the same stud fee applies. I like the idea of a handling fee on the day and then a proportunate fee for each live puppy born. Why would you expect to pay less for a stud fee to an unproved dog once you have pups born. That just seems daft.
Aileen

>  I like the idea of a handling fee on the day and then a proportunate fee for each live puppy born.

I do too, I think it's much fairer all round and with my last 2 litters the stud fee has been paid this way.

On my first litter we agreed a fee of so much per puppy up to a maximum of 6 puppies. I had 9 puppies and tried to give the stud owner the money for 9 puppies but she wouldn't take it. Obviously fee was paid after the puppies were born

The stud dog I'm using has a handling fee, then 50% when scanned and if in pup then the other 50% when pups are born, I think that's reasonable. I do like the idea of a handling fee then a % of the pups born.

In my own breed where stud fee is the price of a puppy generally stud dog owners wait for the bitch to whelp before charging the stud fee.

If a puppy instead of fee is a definite then that is arranged, but if it's a wait and see maybe, then the fee would be payable and the stud dog owner would buy a pup like any other owner.

As for being maiden dog that makes no odds, all stud dogs usually are same price champion maiden etc, but in our breed most males get very little use in their lives, a dog used half a dozen times in as many years would be 'well used' and likely to be influential if pups go into gene pool.

To be honest as long as you make your terms clear, then you can do as you wish, if the bitch owner accepts the terms.

For example it is common on the continent to charge a fee for the mating, and fee per puppy. 

The total would equate to the price of a puppy for an average size litter for the breed.  So in my breed where just under 6 pups seems to be the average reared and pups being £700, then say £100 at time of mating (for the stud owners time and trouble) plus £100 per puppy would equal price of a puppy fee, with the bitch owner gaining if litter small, and stud owner getting more if litter large.

Yes true but the majority of my breed is in Europe and elsewhere where AI is used :)

>in my main breed the stud fee isn't the price of a puppy

Same here.  I charge £200 for a stud fee, but puppy charges are normally around £850.  It has always been my understanding that no fee is charged when a male is used for the first time "to prove himself"

In my breed (Rhodesian Ridgeback), the stud fee is around the price of a puppy. I have had several young boys over the years and would expect to receive a full stud fee for their first mating, but not until the litter had been born. In fact, I never ask for the fee until then, or frequently wait until a puppy has been sold. I'd rather know that the breeder had money available for just in case.

I can only tell you what I did when I allowed my males to be used.    I had a Stud Contract which stated that in the event of no puppies, I'd offer a free repeat, same dog to the same bitch.   Further that 2 puppies only didn't constitute a litter, so a free repeat would also be offered.    My stud dogs were not available 'at public stud, to approved bitches only' until they had been proven within my own kennel.  However, if I had been keen to let him be used on an outside bitch, I'd probably not take a fee until the litter was on the ground - but that would be in writing.  Verbal arrangements can go wrong.   The fee was the price of one puppy - things may be different in other breeds and where you live.    As for a puppy in lieu - frankly I preferred to take a stud fee at the time of the service.   Less messy.   If there was something I liked in the litter, then I'd pay the going rate.

I hope your male is a top quality animal, with wins to prove his quality.   And that he has been tested for all the problems in his breed.    And I'm not meaning to be overly critical, but I hope you know enough about his breed and bloodlines, to be able and prepared to refuse a stud on a bitch who clearly isn't suitable for him, both visually, or on paper   It helps to know about recessives in your breed too!   The unwanted faults that can't be see but which both may be carrying.    I stress - get it in writing!   Friendships can change.

I charge the full rate for my boys even on the first time .with the understanding in writing of a free mating if no pups and the same if only 2. Half payable at time of mating the rest when born. After all my males have had all the health test done for my breed and the cost of campaigning them in the showering.

As an aside, was just viewing a certain pet selling website and saw one stud advert for a toy breed where you get a 1/3 discount if you use him again, owner is calling it their Loyalty price to regular visiting ladies on future seasons!!!

>As an aside, was just viewing a certain pet selling website and saw one stud advert for a toy breed where you get a 1/3 discount if you use him again, owner is calling it their Loyalty price to regular visiting ladies on future seasons

So no BOGOF's then. ;-)