I have  booked a firm to replace my patio doors plus some other work which will take approx 3 days to do. When I ordered I was told it would be done in November. I gave the company a date when I would be able to have the time off and be there and they said it was OK. However with just a few days to go the company have now said they have been held up on previous jobs due to bad weather and they will not be able to do the work on the dates agreed.

Unfortunately  being a dog groomer I am not able to change my time off as it would mean rescheduling a lot of appointments. Coming up to Christmas is my busiest time and the next time I can organise the time will in the new year. I am rather annoyed to put it mildly. I will be stuck with 3 days off which I dont need. I may be able to fill some of the appointments but not necessarily all of them so will lose money and have time off needlessly.

I want the work done when it was agreed and I don't want to have to wait another couple of months. Do I have any right to insist that the company do the work as agreed. And if they don't do it can I cancel the order and get my deposit back?

Did you have a written start date or was it just word of mouth?

I emailed the date but they agreed in a phone conversation.

Do you have to be there ?. If it's a reputable company then you can leave them to get on with it, we've left tradesmen in our home many times. They've turned out to be great dog sitters !.

Yes it is fairly major work so would feel happier being around in case there are problems. Additionally dogs will need to be moved around and not all of them like having strangers in the house. I don't want to risk any accidents.

There is very little you can do without written proof they said the work would be done on a certain day. It would be your word against thiers and I feel sure they would reply they said they woud do the best they could to do the work on that day/days.
DH is a builder and sometimes no matter how hard you try a job runs over and cannot be left so the next one is put of for a couple of days. I am sure if your job was not finished in the 2/3 days allowed due to something like the weather that we have no control over you would be very annoyed if the workmen walked off the job to go to the nexty one without sorting yours out first. Thats how the people that they are working with at the moment would be feeling too.
Aileen

There is nothing you can do....... things like this can be stalled by weather and so many things going wrong, I think most of us half expect it.  I would fill those days as you are already thinking of with clients....... and see if you can get a family member/friend/or neighbour to go to your home on the days they finally come, or perhaps you could have the dogs delivered to your home address, (could you use your garage?) during those days to be groomed.

With your job it is really difficult and I agree an absolute pain......

> DH is a builder and sometimes no matter how hard you try a job runs over and cannot be left so the next one is put of for a couple of days.

So what does your husband do in cases where the person having the work done cannot reschedule for some time? I do appreciate things happen but I don't think this company realises that when I say  cant reschedule until mid January I do actually mean it. I do not have enough days off in December for them to be at home for 3 days. Some of the things I am having done were designed to make life easier when family visits for Christmas so it is extremely irritating that those won't be done.

> see if you can get a family member/friend/or neighbour to go to your home on the days they finally come, or perhaps you could have the dogs delivered to your home address, (could you use your garage?) during those days to be groomed.
>

I have already asked family members and they are unable to help.I don't have the facilities at home to groom the dogs apart from the fact that I have just moved so am further away now. The way I feel just now I want to cancel the work completely and then rebook with a different firm in the spring.

But the same thing could happen with a different firm - the weather can play havoc with all sorts of work. Maybe ask for a new date to suit you and a price reduction for waiting.

Just had another thought, might be a useless one, as I don't know exactly how it works, but here goes.......

The college where you studied and got your diploma, may it be worth you calling to offer an extra work experience over the Xmas period (if you have the insurance) if you were able to get someone in the latter part of their course, would it be possible to allow them to just do the more simple grooms whilst you are having your doors fitted and perhaps juggle your customers?  It may be a risk and not sure if I'd even do it myself, but just a thought to put out there or even an offer for someone you did the course with and know well, who has moved on to other things, but still has the diploma and could help you out for a few days?

Unfortunately I now live in a different part of the country to where I trained.  I do have a part time assistant but her days are already booked and we tend not to swap customers anyway. I do mine and she does hers. Thinking aboutnit I am not sure my customers would appreciate having a trainee groom their dogs anyway so thanks for the thoughts but it is not really an option.

I  have spoken to citizen advice but apparently because the date wasn't actually written into the contract then there is nothing I can do to get the company to do the work when arranged. However when I reschedule in January I will get the the date specified in writing with and so if they don't do it on the date agreed then I will be able to cancel the contract.

Sounds as though you have it sorted, as much as it is a shame you can't have the work done beforehand, I guess at least you can cover yourself for the next time. :-)

Welcome to the world of being let down by tradesmen/women, plenty of us have had steam coming out of our heads from wasted time and days off, don't expect it will ever change........ :-D

He does his best to fit in with his clients plans but sometimes it is just immposible. I can give you a for instance. He has just been doing a small conservatory/extension and the roof was due to be done a couple of weeks ago. The day it was planned it poured down all day and the next so it was not possible to remove the old roof and re-place or the house would have been open to the ellements. The kitchen ceilings would have been ruined by rain. The client could have opted to have a scaffolding roof put over the house while the work was done but the cost is high so they chose not to. Nothing DH could do but  wait untill the weather was good enough to go ahead. It put him back by 2 days and so the next job was 2 days late starting. That meant it would run over and into a holiday they had booked. Nothing anyone could do but the clients were able to make arrangements for a neigbour to give him access to finish the job while they were away. He could have just done it and bodged the job but he is not like that. He could have left the job 2 days early before it was finished, but again that is not right. He makes sure his clients realize that a start date is not always  possible and delays happen. I think people need to understand that delays are not always caused by the workmen but by our fickle English weather. He once was doing a whole new kitchen for a good client and they wanted it for Xmas, but the kitchen supplier sent the units and a couple were damaged. Not DH fault but it meant a wait of 2 weeks for the replacements and it overran Xmas. Nothing he could do about it but appologise and make sure that at least they had running water and a cooker in place even if the kitchen was not finished.
I have no idea why your workmen cannot start on time but sometimes life is not straight-forward and these things happen.
It must be very frustrating for you and you must feel let down. If it is a big national firm is it not possible for them to send another team in these huge firms often sub work out and to be honest your work is only as good as the team who do it ! DH is a sole trader using his regular subbies for certain jobs but managing the whole job himself. He has a number of different subbies to call on if one is not able to do the job. He also drops them like a stone if they are not up to his exsacting standards.!
It does give him more flexibility if a problem occurs but even so sometimes these things cannot be overcome.

> plenty of us have had steam coming out of our heads from wasted time and days off, don't expect it will ever change........ :-D

:) Having spent the last 5 1/2 years doing a house renovation that we thought might take a year or two, I can understand the problems with sticking to schedules etc etc. Some jobs take a lot longer than planned for all sorts of reasons - some of which are under the control of the builder/tradesman, some are not - apart from the weather. I quite understand that it is very frustrating for the OP, but these things can't run strictly to a timetable as much as it would be liked and some flexibility is needed on both sides :)

A bit of a bummer, but with the current weather I'm not surprised the builder has been delayed. A neighbour managed to half demolish one of the walls of my front garden(luckily the dogs have no access to the gap left)Sorted our his vehicle insurance & sent in an estimate from a friend's hubby who is an excellent builder. The insurance company thought the estimate was high, but their assessor thought it was not only good, but bl**dy good value when he saw the wall. The start date was agreed, however the weather stepped in & delayed the previous job, & stepped in again when that was finished to make it impossible for any work except prep work(moving the old unusable stones & putting the usable ones in a safe place)the wall could not be rebuild as the mortar would got have gone off & so 2 months after the 2nd date, the work was done. I didn't complain as I knew the reasons & only the Insurance company was a pain as they obviously hadn't had any snow/frost etc wherever they were based & kept asking me why the work hadn't been done ! Doh 2 feet snow-no building work QED

Well the firm have now decided they can do the work as agreed rather than reschedule in January. On to my next question. I have always paid on completion of the
ut they want me to pay the balance once the work has started but before it has finished. They say this is standard practice with replacement upvc windows. I am reluctant in case anything goes wrong and they get delayed again. As I see it once I have paid they have no incentive to complete the work. Does anyone know if this is right? thanks 

DH said it is NOT standard  practice and you should pay the rest on competion. Ask if they have made the doors yet as well. !

they want me to pay the balance once the work has started but before it has finished. They say this is standard practice with replacement upvc windows.

Oh no it's not!  I've had windows/doors put in 3 houses plus a seperate company for the conservatory here in the past 5 years and have never done that!

Also once a date has been agreed, when the weather had delayed them, my tradesmen have always worked through the weekends and late into the evening where possible to catch up rather than delay the start of their next job.

No, you never settle the bill until the work has been completed and you've checked it to see that it's satisfactory.

Absolutely NOT standard!

Some friends up the road have withheld the final payment for a lot of work that has been done on their cottage. Just as well because the builder has yet to finish! Our friends have had some of the contractors on their doorstep demanding invoices to be paid when they should have gone to the builder in charge of the work. Looks like he has run out of money to pay his workers and seems disinclined to finish the work he was contracted to do for some reason. Stalemate at the moment, so don't pay all the money up front just in case.

No definately not standard to pay before completion.

We always err on the side of caution and pay builders and new tradesmen only on completion or pay rr goods ourselves through our company before work starts as we know we will get trade prices.

Sounds a bit dodgy , did you get them via a recommendation through somebody ?

they want me to pay the balance once the work has started

Does that mean you've paid some up front if you've got 'the balance' to pay?

I paid a 10% deposit. I am also to pay the builder, electrician and plumber myself . These amounts are subtracted from the total agreed for the work. The window company then want me to pay the balance to them. Originally  they said the day the work started then when I queried it they said I could pay on the second day. I am getting a bad feeling about all this,

Does anyone know if a wall is removed and a lintel installed does it need to be inspected by anyone. the council maybe? I asked the salesman and he said not.

Oh dear me too. :( 

I have never paid anything up front with any window installation and I normally use smaller local companies rather than larger multi-nationals.  I have never been asked for a deposit.  :(

I don't like the idea of paying them all seperately either.  You need one point of contact if there are any problems and he needs to get them sorted for you rather than you co-ordinate it, unless you are going to project manage the whole thing, in which case you get the best price you can for each job.

I can't help with removing the wall but would assume that it must be done according to building regs - which only means safely so is worth sticking to!  Google Building Regs and your County.

Does anyone know if a wall is removed and a lintel installed does it need to be inspected by anyone. the council maybe? I asked the salesman and he said not.

You are not allowed to do structural works without Building Regs. The council need to be informed and will have to inspect the job once done. I think you need to re-think this firm.
I know I am on the side of the "Enemy" being married to a builder, but some of them are honest hard working tradesmen. The rough and ready cowboys give us a bad name. Bit like BYB's !! versus good breeders.
Aileen

Yes if it is a supporting wall it will need to comply to building regs. The builder should be sorting all of that out .

Paying seperately is not necesary bad.

Over the last six years we have had projects with many things we have done on the house where we project manage various tradesmen to work on the projects as holding the purse strings gives you a lot of power to make sure they all pull together as if one starts to fail to deliver then nobody can carry on and complete their work so nobody gets paid !

Also once a date has been agreed, when the weather had delayed them, my tradesmen have always worked through the weekends and late into the evening where possible to catch up rather than delay the start of their next job

Despite working all the hours possible sometimes jobs over run. I find it hard to understand why people are happy to assume it must always be a cowboy builder who is not doing the job properly if something outside his control goes wrong. Even if DH had worked all night to fit the kitchen over Xmas he still could not have finished as the manufacturers were responsible for sending damaged goods and taking so long to replace them. As I have said before (Though I fancy not in THIS case) sometimes it is beyond anyones control to finish a job on time.
Aileen

Exactly Aileen which is why when we put plan together we put realistic dates with very generous contigency days in.

So do we but you cannot factor in too many "spare" days if you are a sole trader. These days with very small profit margins builders like my OH who are very well repected need to be working every day and not sitting with nothing to do between jobs.
Its a case of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
Aileen

> Yes if it is a supporting wall it will need to comply to building regs. The builder should be sorting all of that out .

how can I check that this is done? does someone need to come and inspect the work, I have been trying to do a search to find out but am not really understanding what I am finding.

The builder should be responsible for doing it and he should be liaising with the council

Here you go

https://www.gov.uk/browse/housing/planning-permission

No agree Aileen as we deal with people just like your husband but we always do our homework and get the best tradesmen to work for us. It pays to do your research and personal recommendations speak volumes.

Writing this as a warning to other people so they dont make the same mistakes I have . I checked the contract I signed and it does say on there that payment is due on delivery of the windows, not on completion of the work. It is however written in very small writing on the back of the paper I signed  and it was not given to me to read before i signed it. It was never explained to me when I places the order or i would have queried it then.

I checked with the council and they have not received a  request for building control services . I have emailed the company asking they they see to it and let me know when it has been requested so I can check it is done. I have also stated in the email that I intend to pay once the work is completed. Have not heard back from them. I am guessing if they are not happy with that there is nothing much they can do as the work is due to be completed in a few days.

I am intending to pay by bank transfer but wanted to pay a small amount on my credit card so as to get the additional protection. Just wondering if there are any safe guards to stop them taking the full amount on my credit card rather than waiting for the bank credit. Would I be safer not giving them my card details?

Pay it all on your credit card if you can that way you will have full cover if anything goes wrong.

I can but they want to charge 3% extra for credit card transactions. I believe I am covered even if I only pay a small amount on the card.

Try not to worry too much. If you've researched the company and they've been recommended then I'm sure it'll be fine. Believe me, we've had two major lots of work done over the years and have got to know all the problems associated with building works, window replacements, plumbing, rewiring, in fact, everything. We used the same firm to do the windows here that we did our last house. Local firm, we paid in advance for a better deal and it wasn't a problem, we trusted them.
Any tradesmen will have problems they can't help, from the weather to suppliers and even other tradesmen getting delayed. We were left for 16 days without a usable bathroom (had to stand in a bowl of hot water with a jug to shower !). All the timings and dates were correct but because the floor level the builder laid wasn't 100% the tiler couldn't do the floor or walls (wet room type thing). He then went on holiday for 2 weeks meaning the plumber couldn't do any of his work. Luckily the tiler made us his first job when he returned. Some things just don't ever go to plan !.

They will only recover the Amount you pay on the card

according to moneysaving expert they are liable for the whole amount.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

I stand corrected but thing you would have a battle to get all the money back as you would have to justify that both the good and service were rubbish to get it all back but let's hope that you won't need to all being well

I would stick to your guns with payment on competion. If they have already made the windows/doors they will not fit anywhere else so they do not want you to pull out and will fit them to get the money. It is quite common the pay the tradesmen seperatly, thats not a problem as long as you are happy with the work they do. Make sure you double check every window/door to be sure you are happy with them before payment or if they get really funny then ask to retain 20% untill you are happy the job has been done properly. They should be able to do the work under a building notice if it is not major re-construction. Should not need any plans drawn up but a visit from the building inspector to make sure it has been done properly. If you sell the house in the future you will need the job signed off by the building inspector so make sure you keep the certificate of competion with your deeds.
Aileen