As November 5th approaches, how do you prepare your pets for the onslaught? Do you have any tips or suggestions that work with your animals and that others may not have thought of yet?

I haven't found that any supplements/herbal/homeopathic things work and would only as a very last resort use sedatives so its all curtains closed and radio/tellys blaring from the time it gets dark. Two things are different this year: our pony is no more so don't have to worry about him and the family next door have moved out so it MIGHT be better this year.

I had one dog who was terrified of bangs of any description, luckily we don't have a lot of random fireworks being let off where we live. I tried skullcap and Valarian which helped to a degree, but didn't entirely stop her panicking. We would turn up the telly, close curtains and she would be given a bone or something long lasting to chew on. In her case greed did help! But the only real cure for her was when she went deaf and couldn't hear the flipping things. Will be interesting to see how the new pup copes. The breeders used a CD of noises gradually turned up louder and louder as soon as the pups ears were open which I'm sure has helped as new noises don't worry her very much. She has heard one firework let off near us when we were out for a walk last week (great!) and apart from looking a bit alarmed, soon went back to sniffing.

Sadly I have reached last resort stage with one of my dogs and he has to have a sedative - not ideal but far better than harming himself as he has done in the past due to his total panic when fireworks go off. He doesn't get walked after dark at this time of year as one never knows when random fireworks will go off.

Second dog isn't bothered by them at all and third dog will get up and move if he hears them but so far doesn't seem too worried about them as long as he is near to where I am.

Luckily (or sadly, depending on your point of view) my old boy who used to get beside himself with terror is now so deaf and doolally that he's not bothered, and the youngsters don't mind them either. Clients at work have reported very good results with Calmex.

I have often wondered WHAT it is that make so many dogs scared of fireworks -is it that they copy others? I have 21 dogs and not one of them is bothered by fireworks, thunderstorms or gunshots. Or is it living in the countryside, where gunshots and bird scarers are far more common occurrences than things like buses, bikes and kids? Is it what they get used to? Would it be an idea for people to use CDs with firework noises on all year round?

I've had three dogs that have been scared of bangs. First was a Sheltie I had as a child. He wasn't too bad, didn't seem to mind fireworks too much, but was scared of gun shots that were fairly close. Since then we have lived in the country where bird scarers and shoots are more common. Second dog which was a GR was fine, but when five years old, had a firework thrown near to her which went off with aloud bang scaring her badly and she was jumpy on firework night, but was easily mollified with a bone to chew. Third dog, another GR, was a nervous dog right from day one and found any loud noise difficult to deal with and remained so until she went deaf. Another GR who lived with her never copied her fear and would hang out the upstairs window watching fireworks. She also automatically looked up if a gun shot went off to see if anything interesting was falling from the sky despite never being used or trained for shooting. So I don't know what it is that makes some dogs so scared of gunshots like the third one above. My only assumption is that there was nervousness in the lines she came from rather then a learned behaviour of some sort. Knowing what I do now, I would never have got her in the first place, but I was a bit of an innocent back then.

Thankfully, I no longer have a noise phobic dog, and living where we do, fireworks are very few and far between.

One of my puppy buyers from Cellis litter, rents a remote cottage for two weeks at bonfire night and New Year, just to save his boy Torro, from freaking out, love that guy :).

I live about 200/300 yds from location of 'annual village firework display and bonfire'!!!

Different things for different combinations of dogs over the years, -varied between:-

1st GSD would sit on doorstep (on lead of course) and happily watch the display until he developed a parathyroid problem which caused a noise phobia,

putting 3 in car, grabbing book and coffee and departing 'to the sticks' for an hour

lining up 2 crates with covers then giving Rott diazipam, xbreed ACP (making sure they got correct tabs as neither could take the 'other' sedative  as consequences were horrendous!) and GSD a big chew

lining up 2 crates with covers and putting a Queen CD on LOUDLY

now with only Zuma just turn tv up a bit and keep curtains shut

Funny, my beagle is not bothered by fireworks but doesn't like thunder.  The springer is ok but a bit concerned about very loud thunder.  My housemates staff x is upset by any loud noise.  They are all on a few drops of rescue remedy in their water, really just for the staff's benefit but as they share it's easier that way.  It seems to help a bit but she has had a bad experience with fireworks and is a very wired sort of dog anyway, constantly over threshold. 

Only problem with mine is, high alert barking. The solutions with them is shut back door and turn Radio and TV up, or when ti becomes Beirut, take them out for a walk in it, as they don't react to them out of their own territory.

I have often wondered WHAT it is that make so many dogs scared of fireworks -is it that they copy others? I have 21 dogs and not one of them is bothered by fireworks, thunderstorms or gunshots. Or is it living in the countryside, where gunshots and bird scarers are far more common occurrences than things like buses, bikes and kids? Is it what they get used to? Would it be an idea for people to use CDs with firework noises on all year round?

I think it's a product of how fireworks have changed Marianne. Over the years fireworks have  become louder and louder and brighter and brighter. Years ago back garden fireworks would often only go 20 feet into the air if you were lucky and were only heard and seem by those who were very local. Bangs were much quieter and could only be heard a few gardens away and the light from any firework soon fizzled out. It was easy to tell from which direction the fireworks had been set off.

Nowadays people let off display quality fireworks in their gardens - very loud and very high in the sky so the noise becomes less directional and more surround sound. You can also feel the percussion effect in the air and this also seems to affect the dog I have who is firework phobic or maybe it's the change in air pressure - I know a storm is coming a good half hour before it arrives as he starts to pace long before it arrives.. He has recently started to become distressed  during  thunder storms too :-( But I know his fear was caused by a specific incident whereas prior to that he wasn't bothered by fireworks at all.

He isn't bothered by gun shots nor bird scarers but was apprehensive of them for the first couple of weeks after his incident but was back to normal with those very quickly.  He can also tell the difference between real fireworks, those on a CD and those on the TV - the latter two he doesn't turn a hair at.

When I had my four goldies together they were fine and didn't care at all.  Since I lost my old girl last year, my middle girl has become more and more sensitive and stressed by things - we had a thunder storm last week and she was petrified and pooed herself. She had started to become twitchy at last year's fireworks so I am expecting her to be worse this year.  I have just bought a thundershirt for her, and also got some Xanax tablets, which are supposed to help at the time and will also make her forget the experience so that the fear doesn't become cumulative.  I really don't want to see her so distressed again, so let's hope the combination of the two works.  I also have a new pup and don't want her picking up on the fear.

I think that there are a number of points which though obvious are worth reminding people of.

One is that as dogs age their hearing can change to such a degree that once familiar sounds now sound completely different and are therefore experienced by the dog as new. Though too late now it is probably a good idea to think about a longish course of desensitization for older dogs with  noise CD's, just as one would a puppy.

So, for older dogs, treat the situation as one would a pup and prepare well. Close curtains/blinds, lights up bright/ambient noises like TV's turned up. Give dog somewhere dark and soundproofed ( a crate with loads of blankets over) to escape to or let them be with you if they prefer without fussing them. Distraction with games and very high value treats, provided this is done early on, before fireworks reach full crescendo, is also good. Maintain a jolly matter of fact demeanour. Thunder shirts and adaptil can also help along with various herbal preparations as others have mentioned.

For dogs that already show distress at noise/severe separation anxiety, a trip to the vet is in order to enable the dog to get through this year's onslaught and then a further trip for referral to a good behaviourist for long-term desensitization. For some dogs fear of noise is learned and becomes entrenched but can be helped for others it probably has a genetic component and is a rather serious illness and often co-presents with separation anxiety and the fear of various noises can start to spread (generalise). This sort of dog may benefit from long-term use of something like clomipramine along with a tailored behavioural programme.

Things to watch out for are early signs of stress (panting/wide eyes, very clingy behaviour, pacing etc..) if your dog shows these do seek out treatment and advice because it is likely that the dog will only get worse next time.

Sorry to all if this seems a rather negative post, but if you can catch the dogs that have a pre-disposition to developing thunder/firework/noise phobias early then it may save heartache down the line.

For those who have puppies ensure you prepare and do use distraction.

Nando has a homemade thundershirt (just a tight fitting t-shirt really) and we put the telly on quite loud. I increase his exercise during the day when possible so he is more tired and we draw the curtains. He isn't so much frightened by them, for example if we go on a walk he isn't bothered in the slightest, but is territorial about loud noises around the house. Unfortunately popping out for a few hours isn't doable with him as we live a 5 min walk from the local 'big' display and in quite a densly populated area so the fireworks are always close-by, and last for several days. Especially when Bonfire Night lands on a weekday as people then have a parties etc at the weekend, too.

BL**DY FIREWORKS.........

Just to confirm Bella is 6 and we got her from welfare in June and she is bloody gorgeous.

I thought I had done my best by renting a cottage in remote wales as I could see she was unsure of them and the thunder so to avoid them here in Birmingham Bella and I drove there late this morning only to find she is also petrified of gunfire there was a shooting range within earshot and she would not settle at all and tried to climb up the chimney so put her in the car and have driven home fireworks all over tonight she is petrified however have found a kinda solution in my bedroom under the dressing table which is up against solid walls and the bed to the left and wall to the bathroom on the right two big towels and my dressing gown draped over the table making a den sort of thing and me sitting her typing stroking her.

Have had to put us both in here as she tried to climb into the TV cabinet and under the kitchen unit pushing the plinth aside that's a small gap as you will know Staffies do not fit under kitchen units. So the bedroom appears to be the place with X factor blaring away (good job we are end house)and the bedroom is not next to next doors. Glad she ate her share of the roast chicken tonight before all this started as she must have lost weight with all the energy in being scared. Poor girl but she is safe and kinda settled they are loud tonight though.

Cottage I wales - lovely but not suitable.....no fireworks but gunfire. Paid till next Monday 11th to avoid the firework weekend lost it all though but she is more than worth it.

We have tried Skulllcap and valerian and something a kind person on another site let me try but I do not think they work however if they are and this is with the calming working LORD HELP US I cannot think of the name of it at the moment but not good - DO NOT want to sedate her as must be terrible to be scared but drugged so off to buy a thunder coat and rescue remedy tomorrow and really set the bedroom out properly for her.
Every now and again she literally crawls under the bed and her heart is going 9000000000000000000000000000000 million miles a millisecond......

BLOODY FIREWORKS never had a dog who was even aware of them before but I can't blame the people who enjoy them I have myself in the past one of those things I think we will have to get through. Empathies to all who are affected in anyway.

If they do not work for Bella I will wear the thunder coat and take the rescue remedy and everything else....

Come to Woolpit in Suffolk next year, we've not had more than 1 or 2 faint pops in the distance. :-)

Keep listening and let me know although actually we are getting better as the evening wears on maybe I am finding a solution being a rescue I am learning how to help her cope hope I am learning fast enough for her she is bl**dy fantastic

As if fireworks weren't enough [big display locally last night, people locally letting them off tonight, with more to come during the week] - we've heard some rumbles of thunder....

Good Lord that is all I would need thunder she hates thunder. I wish you the best and a bottle of tipple of your choice.

We don't get many thunderstorms here thankfully (at least, not as many as when I lived on the south coast).
But a few months ago we had a so-called Supercell, which trumped anything I've seen before, anywhere.... two solid hours of non stop thunder and strobe lightning. I was up for hours with my rescue girl, first rumble was about 1.30 am and it was 4am before she'd calmed enough for me to sleep.... Thundershirt didn't work, so I gave her all the calmatives I could find, which included 5mg Diazepam and nothing helped her, poor love.

A friend of mine who is a vet recommended a new sedative to me today - it's called Alprazolam and doesn't have the debilitating effects of Diazepam. It also makes the dogs forget what it is that scared them in the first place. Unfortunately my own vet doesn't stock this but is going to order it for me on Monday - it can't be worse than the Diazepam. I would prefer not to sedate my dog at all but he is a danger to himself and needs to be protected.

Thanks Harley - I will ask my vet about it.
While I can try to prepare for fireworks, it's harder to be ready for storms. I looked at the rainfall radar and tonights storm was at least 4 miles away... but she still heard the rumbles, as I did. I guess the ideal medication would be something that just works instantly.

Edit: just looked it up, Alprazolam is Xanax... I have heard of this working well for dogs... it's also something used a great deal in the USA for humans rather than dogs. No idea why it's not prescribed here but we do have some fairly stringent restrictions.

age has some benefits,sad as it is,my daughter used to hope her little dog would go deaf with age,he was so terrified of fireworks,he didnt ,though,bless him.

How did she cope? or let him cope?

> Edit: just looked it up, Alprazolam is Xanax... I have heard of this working well for dogs... it's also something used a great deal in the USA for humans rather than dogs. No idea why it's not prescribed here but we do have some fairly stringent restrictions.

Quite simply, lack of knowledge, IMO.  It can be prescribed - there's no dog version but it can be ordered.  Phoebe has a stock in my mini-pharmacy and Remy gets it for the bad firework nights too (they've both had it tonight), but I had to ask for it specifically after diazepam proved completely unsuitable for her as it makes her hallucinate and makes her wobbly too (no good in a dog that used to bolt upstairs at scary noises).  The vet hadn't heard of it as far as I am aware, and neither had any of the nurses - I had to write it and Xanax down for them and explain what it was so they could get it.  To the best of my knowledge Phoebe is the only dog on it at that practice.

Now, it is very good for noise phobias (it doesn't typically sedate the dog or produce any outward symptoms beyond a dog that can cope better) BUT it must be used carefully.  Use it too often and the dog can become more sensitive to the trigger - for Phoebe that equates to more than twice a week but it varies between dogs.  Use it regularly and the dog can also become addicted to it.  And higher doses can have a retrograde amnesia effect - this does have a use if a dog has a huge scare which would damage an ongoing behavioural rehab program, to remove that experience from the dog's memory but unintentional removal of memories can also hamper progress.  But again the dose at which that happens varies.

Xanax aside, by far the most useful thing I have found, and which is now working for quite a few people's dogs since I've been gushing about it :-P is melatonin.  It's hardly used at all in the UK and not for this - in the US it's used for storm phobias and epilepsy in dogs, and for general stress too.  I only know of one vet who prescribed it for a dog and it was for something else entirely, they had no idea it could be used for this.

Phoebe's been on it for ~4 months and she has coped with the fireworks this year FAR better than last year - and in the short term, bumping her dose a little has calmed her down too.  And it's made a massive difference for Remy - he has been shaking and scared tonight but with a second dose about an hour ago, he is now asleep on the sofa.  The fireworks have stopped but in previous years he would still be nervous and listening for more for hours after they had finished.

It doesn't sedate, like xanax it just removes some or all of the anxiety - what I and others are seeing with fireworks specifically is that it doesn't totally remove the fear but reduces it considerably, allowing the dogs to cope better than before.  Both Remy and Phoebe coped brilliantly on Tuesday when my immediate neighbours had their display, it really surprised me.  Keeping Remy calm has been absolutely crucial this year too so it's been a godsend, as a disc in his lower back prolapsed a couple of weeks ago so the last thing he needed this year was to be pacing around and going up and down the stairs and being uber-tense as he usually is.

It works within around half an hour for most dogs, and no need to give it for some time before the fireworks start - Remy has just had his first dose at about 5pm and a top up at 7/8pm.  Phoebe does get it twice a day every day, but with her I am using it for chronic stress and multiple generalised noise phobias as well as specific stuff like fireworks.

The only downside is that it's not readily available here - you have to order it from overseas.  I get mine from a company in Jersey, I know people who get it from the US (but then you have to watch out for customs - anything costing over £15 from outside the EU is liable for a customs fee and it's pot luck whether you get hit with it or not).

>I have often wondered WHAT it is that make so many dogs scared of fireworks -is it that they copy others? I have 21 dogs and not one of them is bothered by fireworks, thunderstorms or gunshots.

Must be something to do with the number of dogs (grin.)  I have 21 dogs and they don't give a hoot about noise.  Years ago I took a Toy Poodle to a gundog demonstration, she took the gunshot as cool as a cucumber.  I haven't done this with any of my current dogs, so I really don't know what the answer is.

Never had a dog who is scared of anything previously but this rescue of mine has had 6 years somewhere and the scare to prove not a good life but strangely she seems

Never had a dog who is scared of anything previously but this rescue of mine has had 6 years somewhere and the scare to prove not a good life but strangely she seems to be able to self regulate her fear now I have shown her where she is safe ie my bedroom under the dressing table which is now known as "Bella's bomb bed" she is now snoring and I hope will feel sfae enough to go out for  wee about 1ish.

The decibel level is supposed to have something to do with it.  I can't remember exact figured but I read something from the RSPCA (IIRC) last year that said that fireworks are above the maximum tolerable level for most dogs, so a lot will develop a fear simply because of that.

Or something along those lines anyway!  I'll have to find the article.

> is it that they copy others? I have 21 dogs and not one of them is bothered by fireworks, thunderstorms or gunshots. Or is it living in the countryside, where gunshots and bird scarers are far more common occurrences than things like buses, bikes and kids? Is it what they get used to? Would it be an idea for people to use CDs with firework noises on all year round?

I think it's breed specific in most cases.

Every collie I've owned has been terrified of fireworks, every hound has completely ignored them.

With my collie litter I played the sounds scary cd to them at every meal time from 3 weeks old, by the time they were 7 weeks they were happily eating while the fireworks noises blared out top volume, I was pretty confident in the run up to the first fireworks night - but the pup I kept was still terrified :(

This fireworks night wasn't bad as the collies are on Zylkene for a month mid October to mid November, but they were still panting, the silkens (like the borzois before them) will stand in the garden and watch interested as the fireworks go up around them.

> One is that as dogs age their hearing can change to such a degree that once familiar sounds now sound completely different and are therefore experienced by the dog as new.

That helps explain things. Buster has never previously shown he's bothered about fireworks -he's 6 years old now and this year he's has been very troubled by them. Pacing, panting, wide-eyed, but he'll relax if I stay in the same room as him.

We had popped out to the shop, on returning our son was worried, he though somebody was trying to get into the house as Buster was stood all macho barking at the back door (Buster doesn't usually bark). As soon as Buster saw I was home, he stopped his guardy behaviour and showed his true feelings, he was petrified of the fireworks he must have heard when we were out :( :(
Me simply sitting in the living room is enough to calm him, he'll curl up on the sofa next to me, but if I move he'll follow me and get stressy again.

I think I'll embark on some counter conditioning with a noise CD, but I'll wait a few weeks as he's still a little edgy if he hears a firework on TV and is reluctant to go out in the garden for a wee once it's dark - you can see him scanning the sky and sniffing the air for a while before he'll step outside - he's peed in the house several times for being too nervous to go out in the garden :(

Just to clarify, yes, I will leave my eldest son home alone with the dog, my eldest is 15 years old, the dog gets shut in the living room with a babygate and my eldest son will follow the rules of staying out of the living room.

I have found my firework phobic dog definitely knows the difference between the CD and real fireworks. I can play the CD at full volume and he doesn't turn a hair - totally different story with the real thing :-(

They are certainly getting louder. 

They are certainly getting louder. 

Is it not possible to produce fireworks without the noise, or at a reduced level, with the same visual effects?

It is apparently Bristol zoo did a display this year. But people like the noise don't they. I don't mind its the random ones and the BOMBS........that catch me out. Like at 11am and before 3pm.  

It is possible to do quieter displays - in some places public displays are done for children who are frightened of the big ones.  So it's about time the allowable noise level was reduced as far as possible and restrictions on sales brought in.  There's just no excuse for allowing things to continue as they are any more.

Ok, the proper big explosive fireworks as I understand it can't be reduced exactly, but a smaller caliber could be used, or they could be banned from public sale or such like.

There are quieter fireworks but they are not popular as they are more expensive

Harley,

Yes, that is a problem. Real fireworks have an extremely pungent smell as well as the light effect and, of course the direction of noise will seem much more random to the dog.

Here I have an additional dimension to the sound - when the mid-loud fireworks go off over the road it actually sounds like firecrackers are being thrown directly at my front door and exploding on impact.  There's no way I can recreate that without doing something like having someone outside throwing gravel at the door, and it's such an intense source of fear that doing that would just not be fair.  So in this house at least, it's a swine of a thing to work on with the dogs :-(

> I have found my firework phobic dog definitely knows the difference between the CD and real fireworks. I can play the CD at full volume and he doesn't turn a hair - totally different story with the real thing

Ah, yep, can't fool the dog :)
Strangely enough, we heard a few sonic-boom type fireworks last night and the dog never even moved an eyelid, just as he has been like on previous years, flat out on the sofa, sending up the Z's - and he was even in the room on his own.

I am now wondering if he has been reacting due to picking up on emotions from us as hubby lost his nan last weekend (she's was more like a mum than a nan to him), the 2 weeks prior to her death have been hard, as it been 2 trips a day to the hospital for hubby to spend as much time with her as possible, so emotions have been strained and our routine has gone to pot lately - maybe our emotions and messed-up routine had made him feel insecure?
Things are getting a bit more normal with us now, perhaps Buster is feeling more secure so the fireworks are no issue for him? They certainly didn't bother him last night.

When I was younger we used to get the quiet fireworks from Asda and Tescos. We had a noise-phobic (and epileptic) yorkie at the time and so had to keep the noise to a minimum and we would like to stay at home so that the dog wasn't left on his own to stress over the fireworks. They were very quiet, just used to make a crackling noise which didn't bother the dog.

Nando, on the other hand isn't bothered unless he can see the fireworks and even when he does he acts all macho and barky rather than showing his fear through cowering or shaking. I was out running with him about 10pm on November the 4th. The increased activity helps him relax, however he saw a firework mid-run and nearly pulled me over as he was attached to my waist!

well I have two fireworkproof dogs, and I have no idea why.....they just don't care. Delilah recently attended next doors firework party and I had to reprimand her for trying to walk up to a lit, spinning Catherine wheel!:0
( she was on a lead of course). So weird how some dogs are scared and some not.

People seem to really like the loud ones, no idea why. I like the pretty colours tbh but hate the big bangs just on my own account! Luckily my dogs are not bothered - the oldest one occasionally barks a bit if he's in the garden when they go off, but we just call him in and then he ignores them. This year he didn't even do that. We are lucky in my village to have almost no noise though, unlike the WW3 that we had to endure back in London!

> Delilah recently attended next doors firework party and I had to reprimand her for trying to walk up to a lit, spinning Catherine wheel

sounds like the person holding the lead needs reprimanding not the dog!

I had the lead, she was in no danger as I am not actually that stupid....I just meant that she TRIED to go towards it. I didn't actually LET her

>People seem to really like the loud ones,

Do they really, how weird I hate the noise but do like the 'display' of decent fireworks.

Nikita/ML

Yes, there is no way we can recreate real fireworks although I wonder if some kind of smell package could be added to the noise CD- it is easy to overlook the incredible impact smell has on a dog and this should probably be part of any counter-conditioning too. With curtains, etc.. we can control the impact of light flashes, but not the smell and noise.

I think the primary value of desensitization and counter-conditioning with noise CDs is for the dog that hasn't developed a fear, so that if there is an underlying propensity for noise phobia there is a better chance it won't be triggered by the real thing, it should really be a standard part of all puppy rearing and training. Often people only start to use it once their dog has a problem and given that there is most probably a heritable component to serious noise phobia, this has to be a mistake. Once the dog has got a full blown fear then it is my view that serious drugs are necessary if any changes can be made.

I have never thought of a smell being sprayed alongside the noise CD. Nando barks at the smell and sight rather than the noise. He bark if there is a particularly loud one but hours after they've stopped he will bark at the sky because of the smell if I let him out into the garden!