Many  owners don't recognise the subtle signs of a dog who is uncomfortable in a situation, so are equally unlikely to to recognise a dog who is feeling out of sorts.

This video has been all over Facebook today, nothing bad happens but it really shows how people have no sense and cannot read their dogs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9rnK49QxJI&feature=share

We also need a complete culture change. People need to stop thinking of dogs as furry toys. And treat them with the respect they deserve. They also need to realise that dogs can be unpredictable. Even the softest, daftest dog can be unwell and behave in an uncharacteristic and dangerous way.

And what a perfect illustration   :-(

Watching that video made my blood boil.   I've banned kids from the house for far less.

I can just hear the owners saying  " 'dog' is marvellous with the baby "     right up to the day he retaliates when they will say " there was no warning, he was great with kids until he went nuts"  

That baby is at risk of being bitten, not by this dog maybe (if their luck holds) but any other dog he approaches and treats like a toy.   Sadly other children are at risk from this dog.   It may not bite the baby it lives with (yet), but won't feel the same restraint when it comes to children outside the family and may react badly to far less, simply because it's already pushed too far.

I hate hearing the phrase "he/she is great with kids"   - in my experience it means the dog is pushed to the limit :-(

> Don't think you need a licence of competence to have a horse, and horses especially on roads can easily result in deaths of riders and with vehicles."horse riding in the UK accounted for 10 deaths and 100 traffic accidents each year."

Interesting.
So why pick on dogs? I am sure there are also many other minor injuries caused by horses, such as kicks, bites, and human toes crushed by hooves. I've not gone to A&E after a horse related incident, but I have fallen off them, and been bitten, kicked, bruised and trodden on.

> Don't think you need a licence of competence to have a horse, and horses especially on roads can easily result in deaths of riders and with vehicles."horse riding in the UK accounted for 10 deaths and 100 traffic accidents each year."

Interesting.
So why pick on dogs? I am sure there are also many other minor injuries caused by horses, such as kicks, bites, and human toes crushed by hooves. I've not gone to A&E after a horse related incident, but I have fallen off them, and been bitten, kicked, bruised and trodden on.

> Don't think you need a licence of competence to have a horse, and horses especially on roads can easily result in deaths of riders and with vehicles."horse riding in the UK accounted for 10 deaths and 100 traffic accidents each year."

Interesting.
So why pick on dogs? I am sure there are also many other minor injuries caused by horses, such as kicks, bites, and human toes crushed by hooves. I've not gone to A&E after a horse related incident, but I have fallen off them, and been bitten, kicked, bruised and trodden on.

What is really needed, is for people to stop blaming others for everything and take on responsibility for their own actions or lack of.   

Absolutely agree, and why should we all pay for the ignorance  and stupidity of others, but this is what will happen unless there is some common sense.

It is always the dog that is blamed, therefore it is the dog that will be targeted. I don't want to have to muzzle my dogs each time they go out which is being suggested, dog licences have been mentioned, again they are useless. Microchipping will not help the problems, that is why I suggested it is the owners that need to be trained before laws come into place that will affect all of our dogs.
As already mentioned earlier is has been said by 'an expert' that he doesn't see why people need more than one dog, I don't want some bright spark to decide that he is going to limit the number of dogs we can all own, because again that will not deter dog attacks, but joe public (non dog) owners need to see things being done to satisfy them, and it is unfortunate but in the end it could be ALL dog owners that are affected whether we like it or not.
IMO being trained to own a dog and to be licenced to own a dog could, (and I say could,) be a way that is least painful to us all, unless someone has any other ideas.
People will never take the blame for their own actions and will always blame the dog

If anyone asks me if my dogs"like"children I reply saying"well they are fed raw so I suppose they might manage one between them "

>What is really needed, is for people to stop blaming others for everything and take on responsibility for their own actions or lack >of.

>Absolutely agree, and why should we all pay for the ignorance and stupidity of others, but this is what will happen unless there is >some common sense

IMO being trained to own a dog and to be licenced to own a dog could, (and I say could,) be a way that is least painful to us all, unless someone has any other ideas.

What you are advocating is  that we all pay for the stupidity of others.    Who is to decide who needs training to own a dog?    If you have to pass a test and have papers before owning a dog, then that is licensing.    

Why should I have to train when I already have so  much  experience?   Who is going to test me? Who would be qualified?       We regularly are told by new posters of the damage some 'qualified' trainer has done to their dog.

Papers can be forged, so anyone who wanted to avoid regulation - and this is what you're advocating -  could do so easily, leaving the law abiding to pay the price yet again. 

And don't forget, no matter how much training people  have, there are those who learn nothing, despite having files full of papers.

And all  this before we consider that breeding counts  for a lot, so will there  be a mass cull of badly bred dogs first?    And if so,who will decide which dogs are to be culled?    

Hi Dill
So what do you suggest ?
( this is not meant in a confrontational way, it is just a discussion and sharing of ideas, so no bad feeling meant here )

Who is going to test me? Who would be qualified? 

And what if you strongly disagree with their training methods!!

Ok I understand many of you feel this cannot be done, so what can be done to protect dogs and good owners from laws that may inhibit our enjoyment of our 4 legged friends?

I think a strengthening of the will to implement the present laws would help a great deal.    We already have legislation to deal with inappropriate behaviour resulting from dog ownership.    But precious little seems to be done at present,  perhaps we should be calling for present laws to be enforced properly.

We also have legislation to protect children from their parents.  Eg neglect.  This could be brought to bear where it is established that parents or carers have been negligent regarding the safety of  the children in their care where a dog has attacked.  In most cases it is the parents or carer who is at fault, but the dog gets the blame.   In the same way that drivers who kill their passengers can be prosecuted for dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention, even when the passengers are their children.   We don't see people blaming the car!

All this could be effected without any changes to the present laws and without further legislation.

Regarding training people and licensing them, we already have that in place - drivers can't drive a car until they have passed a test and got a license.   A days drive on the motorway and around the UK will soon show you how ineffective this is.   There are idiot drivers everywhere putting other people at risk.   It's a miracle there aren't more crashes than there already are!

It's not only dogs that parents and other family members take into the home with little thought or knowledge is it? We still have mothers, grandmothers etc. moving the new boyfriend in five minutes after knowing him for him to then go on to abuse the children in the home. Until society accepts how precious a child is and stops taking risks then there will still be injury and death caused by animals, new partners, cheap market stall electronic toys and the like. Yes dogs have to be trained, but so do all children that come into contact with the animal, my dogs seem to adore children but the rule in my house is that if my dogs want contact with any visitors or family members then the dogs will instigate that contact, if the dog removes itself from the company then the dog has to be left alone - they are not toys for the amusement of others.

Thanks Dill, that makes sense.

I think every dog lover/owner across the country are muttering that people must accept responsibility and people must do this and must do that, but very few people are willing to offer a way to resolve these issues. I came up with an idea, which people did not like ( that is ok as that is the way a good discussion goes, you kick around ideas, some like the ideas and some don't - all acceptable with no bad feeling )

perhaps we should be calling for present laws to be enforced properly.

That would be a good way to go if we can get enough people to make enough noise to get noticed, lets hope somebody with an ounce of common sense can see the way forward instead of banning more dogs, multiple dog ownership and muzzles for all dogs.