Hi everyone,
Breeders, please help! My son has let my dog get at my bitch in season and they tied, this morning. He got up for work and, half asleep, let them into the garden together. He had been told, and there was a whole room between them (not just a door) and he still just forgot and let them out together. LIVID just doesn't describe how I'm feeling. This bitch had a litter last season and I have a fantastic stud lined up for next season.
So I need to know - is there a mismate injection that is the safest? One which won't affect her next season? I want to ask the vet for the best one if possible. TIA, Jackie

Alizin; two injections 24 hours apart.

Thank you. Do you have experience of using it? Can the bitch be used the season after?

I've read that it's best to have the bitch scanned for pregnancy first but it feels wrong to leave it so long.......... :(

If the timing of the stud dog is going to be a problem, i.e only in the country for certain weeks etc, it may be best to hold off the Alizin until 28 days at which time you can have a scan or a blood test to confirm pregnancy. Alizin can still be given safely at that time and up to 45 days although of course the foetus's will be bigger the longer you leave it.

Seasons can be earlier or later due to the injection, so if timing is going to be a problem I'd wait those 28 days to be sure.

If the stud dog is around whether the season is a little earlier or later then I'd just give the injection, it will do no harm even if not pregnant and will not stop her from having a future season the timing may just be a little off. :-)

OK thanks, the stud is here in UK so should be ok then. I hate interfering like this, I'm so upset and angry.

Just spoke to my vet, apparently I have to wait until a week after her season has finished for the Alizin injections.

First of all it is NOT correct at all you have to wait for the season to finish before you have Alizin -it can be done at any time. I had a mismating on a Saturday and the bitch had Alizin first thing on the Monday. Secondly I'd hate to wait until 28 days when the btich is pregnant as it will be harder for her -as long as you can make sure the dog and bitch are kept apart (make your son pay for the injections, that might concentrate his mind a bit! :) ) then there is no reason at all to wait.

>Just spoke to my vet, apparently I have to wait until a week after her season has finished for the Alizin injections.

But that is only because it is your vets preference.  The only reason vets suggest this, is in case you allow the male to get to her again after the jab has been given.  I am not the only person who preferred to have the jab right away.  As long as you are 150% certain that a mismate won't happen again there is no earthly reason why Alizin cannot be used right away.

I knew that I couldn't handle "getting rid" of formed puppies.  I had my bitch injected with Alizin a couple of days after the mistake.  And again 2 days later.  She completed that season with no ill effects and I couldn't be more pleased with Alizin.  So much better than anything that came before.  So,, your vet is telling you wait from choice, not because it can't be done.  I do know of other CD members that have done it right after the mismate.

It is recommended to wait until the season is over, (but it can be done sooner, depends on the vet) within the first 22 days it is 100% effective then I think it drops to 95%. I don't know how far in she is, but if it does bring it up to be 28 days from the mating it may be best to have the blood test to confirm first. If she is half way through a much more likely time to have been caught, then I would just do it in a couple of weeks time then........... it's just the waiting for you, which drags it on.

I would be mighty peeved too, when you took all the precautions, but these things are usually human error, but thank goodness it can be sorted and your bitch can be mated to the right stud dog next year.  Just keep thinking of that. :-)

Sorry, I see that I posted at the same time as Goldmali.  But the same answer.  I did ask the vet on the day that this jab was given.  She said that she had never seen any side effects when used right away after the mating.

The plus side is it probably  was the peak of the season when it happened for them to tie so quickly with no flirting etc, so the bitches interest may disappear even if they did get together again....... but I guess why the vet wishes to wait is because it could happen again, if there is only another week to wait until the season finishes I think I would wait, both dogs in the same home with other humans in the house, could cause another error, it would be awful to have to take the bitch twice. If it is only two weeks to wait myself, I personally would wait.

There will be no chance of them getting together again, my son will be paying for the injections and he feels awful about it. He keeps saying sorry over and over. He knows I hate interfering with seasons so either way is not good.

I posted about this on my FB page and the majority of people are saying I should leave her to have the litter, if there is one. One poster wrote "For a healthy bitch a back to back isn't bad, they should get a break after that but it really isn't a bad thing. She will be fine. She might not be fine if you try to stop the pregnancy."    I'm confused. :(

Another posted this link: http://dachshundaustralia.com/revisiting-back-to-back-breeding/242

How many people on your facebook have the sort of breeding experience you see on the forum here.  And the sire is not even the one you chose.  Too many reasons not to have this litter.  The best buyers will not want a litter bred back to back with an unplanned sire.  What would this litter do to improve your breed? 

JackieG take it from JeanSW and myself that have USED Alizin -she will be fine. The old style injections were FAR more problematic and indeed because of how unsafe they were I allowed an accidental crossbred litter to be born 11 years ago, but now when Alizin exists I wouldn't think twice about using it. The bitch of mine who was mismated (she broke down a door!) was mated by her own son so there was no way I could have had that litter -nobody would have wanted the pups and they would have been unregistered. So I used Alizin and the very next season I mated the same bitch to a dog of my choice, she had 9 stunning pups, two of which are now CC winners. The bitch herself is now 7 and looks half her age, in wonderful condition, and recently had a BOB at a championship show. So it certainly did her no harm. :)

The people who posted are breeders, of my breed. My stud may be used for the future but no, I didn't want him used right now. Sigh, I can't believe I'm in this position.

Really can't believe anyone would think back to back acceptable.  Human pregnancy is 9 months but I bet the people who say back to back is acceptable would not be having a baby one after another.  My girl has phantoms and it takes a few weeks for her to get back to looking her best after one and that is without actual pups taking it out of her.

Marianne, your post makes me feel better about the Alizin. I've been reading some horror stories. I don't vaccinate after puppy ones, rarely worm and use garlic rather than flea products. I feed a natural diet and try to interfere as little as possible. So this is a huge deal for me.

Regardless of back to back breeding why did you choose a stud dog other than your own? Behind every breeding programme is a need to breed a genetically good line, to breed standard, to breed temperament, most of us need to choose our stud dogs carefully to fulfill that list, if your own dog was not part of your breeding programme to start with should he still not be?

If he is a good compliment to your bitch, (not a father, brother or son to your girl) has a genetically healthy line along with his and your bitches own health tests and both compliment the breed standard then the litter would not be a bad thing, but obviously something ruled him out previously?

Don't go ahead with a litter just because it 'possibly' has accidently happened, you need more of a reason to continue than that. :-)

Because he sired her last litter, and I really like the other stud, so I thought I'd have a different stud next time.

>How many people on your facebook have the sort of breeding experience you see on the forum here.

Exactly Roxylola. 

> Another posted this link: [url=undefined]http://dachshundaustralia.com/revisiting-back-to-back-breeding/242[/url]

That link suggests that Pyometra only happens in dogs which are not bred however my only case of pyo occurred in a bitch who did have 2 litters back to back due to an accidental mating that I was not aware of. Bitch was only 2 1/2. had first litter. I hadn't planned a second and kept dogs apart but 5 weeks after season noticed bitch was getting fatter. I still am not sure how it happened. Anyway on the next season she got Pyo and had to be spayed. I had planned to spay her 3 months after that season but 2 months after she got pyo.

If this mating wasn't planned then I would have the Alizin injection and go with your original plans. As you say you have already had one litter with this stud. In such a small breed it would surely be of more value to use a different stud to enlarge the gene pool. And you might want another litter in the future. by keeping this possible litter you are then left with only one more litter from your bitch and in a couple of years there may be another stud you want to use.

Pyo can happen to any bitch that has a uterus, whether or not she's had a litter in the past.

I had a mismate once, my boy got to my girl. I wanted to mate her that season as well and had to cancel the stud dog. Took her to the Vets and she was given the Alizin injection. Next season she was mated successfully to the dog of my choice.
Also wanted to say that I would never think it acceptable to do a back to back mating.

I wouldn't perchase from someone that did. You choose the breeder then the dog. If the ethics are not there then its not the person Iwish to line the pockets of.