I am curious to know peoples theories as to why pups and young dogs won't do their business away from their garden. I have always thought that it was a confidence issue.

My latest pup is 5 months old, very happy, full of fun, confident and really LOVES people and life in general. He goes out twice daily for his walks and also I take him into the city centre, beach or somewhere he hasn't been before at least 3 times a week in the car.

He will not go to the toilet outside of the garden no matter how desperate. When we get back from our walks or journeys, he is desperate and will have a long wee in the garden.

I had this problem about 20 years ago with a GSD bitch (rescue) but she was very shy and lacked confidence and I accepted that this was the way that she was.

My older 2 Briards never had or have a problem going outside of the garden.

He is nearly house trained, we have the odd accident if he has guzzled copious amounts of water but on the whole he is very good. He will go on command in the garden and despite me giving the command when we are out, he won't go, even though I know that nine times out of ten and being a boy, he must need at least a little sprinkle.

Is this an age thing? Will he go when he is more mature and perhaps gets into marking? My older Boy, who is no longer here, used to empty himself at the first opportunity and keep going until nothing came out, he did this from virtually the day that I had him, although in all of his 10 years he never did cock his leg lol.

I take him straight out on the lead for the first morning wee and he will go enough to relieve himself but the minute we get back into the garden, he will then have another 3. I can't avoid the garden as it literally surrounds the house with no options.

This worries me as I am sure that he must be uncomfortable and it is not healthy to hang on for such a long time.

I had one like that.  Confident happy very outgoing would not go for hours and hours and hours.  Over 12 hours at about 20 weeks!

She grew out of it but was about 12 months old and she started by only going in the local park she was most familiar with.  This then worked up to other familiar places.  She would also have (and still does) certain spots she will use.  Even in the garden if she can't get to her spot she just won't go. 

She will now go in unfamiliar places but only if she has to.  She is no marker.

Pretty much all my bitches are like this. Plenty of them go to shows at weekends are are gone for a long time, yet will wait until they get home to have a wee. It's rare they will go away from home, only if they are really desperate. The oldest that still avoids going away from home is 7!

Yes my boy has certain spots in the garden where he will only go.

Having had this with my bitch all those years ago and having had other bitches who were a bit particular where they went, I thought that this was a female thing, I have never had this with a boy before, all the boys that I have had before Wookee were only too happy to oblige :-D He is most strange. His testicles have actually dropped recently and I thought that he may change his mind now that he is becoming a "man" but nope...

Yet my bitch will over mark any other dogs calling card and has at least 2 or 3 wee's on a 20 minute walk.

My five month old bitch pup is more or less the same. Up until she was about three and a half months she would only relieve herself in the garden and that is still the preferred spot. I managed to break the habit when we went and spent a month staying at our static some 200 miles away. She held on the entire way despite a stop midway. By the time we arrived, she was beside herself and could hardly get out of the car quick enough to go. Then she would only 'go' in that spot! Eventually she became more flexible and would relieve herself within the garden of the static, but then not want to go elsewhere! She hung onto her poo's as long as possible as well, but eventually had to give in and go when we were out, there is only so long a pup can hang on for. Now we are back home she will relieve herself in the first field we go into, but reluctantly elsewhere or in her preferred spot in the garden and she will hang on for ages if pressed despite being able to toilet on command. She is the first pup I've had like this and yet she is the most confident, friendly and outgoing dog I've had. I was beginning to think it was just her, good to find there is a lot of others that are the same.

LOL, I can't help but think of the people who want their dog to toilet in their own yard and not out and about.  Could you find one of them and trade?  :)  Kidding.

With horses we shake straw under their bellies and whistle.  It's supposed to act like the sound of running water is said to act on people and make them want to pee.  I did once know a horse that would not bathroom in his stall and this tactic was used successfully on him.

Has your boy had a walk with another dog he can emulate?  Or, I have heard of people digging up a piece of sod they have used in their own yard and putting it outside their own yard. 

It is something I have never had a problem with My lot will go anywhere. Drinking away from home is my problem Merlot (Bless her) would go 12 hours out at a show and not touch a drop. If we stayed overnight in a hotel she would drink in the room but never in a showground. Vino is much the same but will eventually have a drop if coaxed. I used to resort to squirting water from a bottle into Merls mouth !
We do teach a command to pee in the garden when pups are young and I can then use the command to toilet elsewhere but never yet had one who would not go outside the home.
Sometimes I find baby puppies are far too interested in everything else to go so I just stroke their tummies and it seems to make them want to go, like Mums tongue I suppose !
Aileen

Lol, it seems we're never happy whatever our dogs do sometimes ;-)

Yes, he's been walked with other dogs, and apart from his innate silliness, he watches and sniffs in fascination...but has so far never felt the need to copy, but...

In saying all of this, he did actually pee about 300 yards from the entrance to the house last night on the last walk and I literally whooped with joy, poor pup looked so confused, he went into mental mode leaping and jumping around, not sure he "got" why I was behaving like someone who had won the lottery but this is the only way I can let him know as treats and toys just don't float his boat when we are out on walks, it is my behaviour that gives him his cues.

Amazing how they are like sponges at this age. I will try and get him to emulate last nights actions again later as this morning we were back to holding on until we got home *rolls eyes*

The same one who won't pee won't drink away either.  I usually add a bit of something sweet, ice cream is a favourite in summer, any sort of fruit juice or even a drop of honey.  Trouble is then I have to make sure she does not over drink - she has a real sweet tooth!

There are various theories about this but generally it is either a familiar substrate issue (learned behaviour) or a not wanting to advertise one's presence to other dogs issue. The latter may be about confidence or it may be that in certain ways your dog is a little more wolf-like. it is always worth remembering that while dogs are not wolves that they are related to wolves and do share certain behaviours to a greater or lesser degree and the instinct to keep a low profile out on strange territory or away from home territory does make sense and may be more enhanced in certain individual dogs. On the other hand, he may have very little territorial instinct and the need to mark and announce his presence is simply not there, so the only trigger for him to go is his own smell.

It is certainly more common for bitches to want to keep waddles etc close to home and some feel the need to hide when they go- again probably a residual survival instinct.

Anyhow, have a think about how you housetrained your lad-did you always take him to the same spot in your garden? Have you perhaps inadvertently done something to put him off when you were out. A sensitive dog can pick up on all kinds of signals and make the wrong conclusion. I had a client once who was embarrassed about her dog waddling on the pavement. She had never told her dog off but somehow the dog picked up on this and refused to go away from the garden. I had to take the dog and stood outside with her, having ensured she had a large drink, until she eventually went - she was then praised, but moderately not OTT. I had to wait about an hour by the same tree- so had to be very patient.

You could try taking some soil that your dog has piddled and or pood on and place it somewhere outside away from your home but not too far and then just wait. If your dog performs give moderate praise and carry on you may need to repeat this in various places each time getting further from your home. it sounds a bit mad but it is the smell of his own wee or poo that should prompt your dog to perform, if you can place the soil next to an area that other dogs use, so much the better.

Hope this helps and would be interested to know how you get on.

I agree that smelling a pre wee'd on spot will make my dog wee again. She is very keen to not wee where she has poo'ed. She does only have a small area to toilet on as we do not have a big garden so there is an eight by six foot area that she goes to. She wee's round the edges and poos in the middle!
It is likely our training of her to go in a small area in the garden which has caused her to be picky where she goes, but luckily she will go elsewhere now to a degree, but there was a time I was beginning to wonder if she ever would.

Thank you freelanceruk, I appreciate your insight on this issue and all of what you say, it is very interesting and I agree completely :-)

Yes, inadvertently, I did take him to roughly the same spot when house training, a spot that he insists on using regularly now alongside a few other chosen areas. I don't think that I have done anything to put him off when we are out but who knows? As you say, they are very sensitive.

If he doesn't continue to wee away from the house, as he did on the only occasion yesterday, I will try taking some soiled soil from the garden and putting it down to see if this entices him. I will now keep my praise to moderate instead of OTT!

I am thinking that he isn't yet territorial so this is the reason why as he doesn't appear to lack confidence with other animals or people. Yet he loves to sniff and sniff as any good dog does when we are out and I let him, in the hope that it may help him to go. Out of a half hour walk I would say at least 10 minutes are spent sniffing.

My much older bitch, conversely, loves to mark everywhere and anywhere we go and when she toilets in the garden, she will always do it on the peripheries, especially near the gate, where other dogs wander down our lane and cock their legs outside of it. Her territory is definitely HER territory and woe betide any other animal that dares to mark near it.

hairypooch,

it is possible that having always taken him to more or less the same area as a pup that this has become entrenched in his brain as where to go. It could also be that he feels that the bitch and her smell takes precedence in some way and perhaps this inhibits him marking or going away from the home. Do you take her out on walks with him? If so try going with him alone and carry the soil with you. Don't make a big show of putting soil down, it might even be better to put some down and then walk on and revisit on the way back.

I wonder if he has observed your bitch chastising another dog for cocking near her territory....?

The thing about dogs is that in some ways their behaviours are so plastic or flexible that, it is my belief anyhow, they can develop funny quirks just by making a certain association at a formative moment. It could simply be that he needs to mature a little and his hormones to flow for him to feel that he can assert himself more on what he probably sees as your bitch's turf. The way you describe her she is quite a grande dame and rather in charge- he is still young and possibly a little in awe, though her presence probably also makes him feel very safe and secure.

Since he has gone outside once I have little doubt that he will do so again. Try to be patient and just hang around and wait for him to go, but don't give verbal prompts, just be casual.

The reason I said don't give OTT praise is that widdling is a normal activity and the process of marking or of relieving a full bladder is rewarding in itself, so by saying 'good boy' if he does go away from the home, you are letting him know that it is okay him going there but you don't want to make a big deal of it or he might start to widdle as a means to get attention/brownie points... or he might even feel that he can only go in certain areas that have your approval and feel that the garden is safest because he knows that is okay. I have known this to happen when a normal activity is over-rewarded. Hope this makes sense.

Could be worse, my fussy girl decided at one point she did not even want to go in my garden and would instead scale the 4' fence between mine and next doors garden, slip through a gap in the fence between them and their next door at the other side and go in that garden.  As they are grown up girls I was not staying out with them and didn't realise what was happening at first.  When I did it has taken an extra 2' of trellis to stop her jumping over!

Jodi,

The relationship between smell and the reflex leg response to pee is not to be underestimated. I think it was Bruce Fogle who observed young male dogs turning around and looking confused as their leg cocked up in readiness for a widdle in response to the smell of urine (either its own or another dog's). Fogle said something like "it is as though the leg cocks the dog."

Yes, what you have said FL makes total sense ;-)

I don't walk him with her as I don't want him picking up bad habits! She's not that bad but she is very tetchy with other animals as she was attacked quite badly when she was a pup by an out of control dog :-( So he is walked on his own generally although we do meet up with other (well behaved) dog walkers once ever couple of weeks or so.

I think that you are right, he is a little in awe of her, she is a force to be reckoned with at times, in a good way, but he does also adore her. I think that he looks upon her as a Sister/Mother figure, she tells him off frequently but also she makes a great play mate.

I think that I will just give him more time and also not prompt him to toilet, he may feel this is too much pressure, especially if he is reluctant to go for a specific reason.

Totally understand the reason for not going overboard on the praise front when he does finally do it, he is definitely the type of dog who will do something to gain brownie points and I have already inadvertently taught him bad habits that we now need to work on...*sigh*

Edited to add: My bitch sometimes cocks her leg, my old boy who I lost back in May, never cocked his leg in the 10 and half years he was alive, bless him. I don't think the pup is on course for leg cocking either.
Thanks for all your help :-)

Thanks too from me Freelancer, that has been a very interesting bit of dog psychology.

I read somewere that youngsters are protecting themselves from harm by weeing in there own garden,so other animals dont pick up there scent,all mine have waited till they got home to wee.its been when they are a bit older and bigger they have relieved themselves on walks

Sheila

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">LOL, I can't help but think of the people who want their dog to toilet in their own yard and not out and about.

Yep that's me, with my 6 (who do go at home too) but nearly al of them go when out too, so I often have several bags hanging from one hand while I have 6 leads on the other.

I've had 3 girls who were like that, and they did grow out of it as they grew up.

>so I often have several bags hanging from one hand while I have 6 leads on the other.

Oh Barbara, I've just come back from the caravan, and only took 2 dogs with me this time.  I did a walk with both (1 large, 1 small,) and later took the bigger dog out by herself.  It was dark, and I couldn't be bothered putting my poo bag over my shoulder (usually has at least a dozen bags in it.)

I just slipped a poo bag in my pocket, and took her down to the field so she could have a free run.  Obligingly did a poo, which I picked up, and I used the bin as we left the field.  Half way back to my van, and she had another poo!  I could have strangled her!

I always have loads of bags in my pocket as a couple of mine will go more than once.

I feel for you there Jean. Our last dog rarely thought that once was enough! Her record count for a days worth was seven times. Nothing wrong with her, not overweight, ate the right amount, she just went a lot. Now the pups out of tiny puppyhood, she generally goes about twice a day. Rather a novelty (and quite a saving on poo bags)

Well just an update. Today when out on our lunchtime walk, Wookee pee'd on the walk out AND on the walk back, so I don't think that I have much to worry about. It appears that he is just a little later than my other boys were in that department.