Yes, I know that it has been discussed until the cows come home on here and I never actually thought that I would be asking this question but here goes...

Large, strong in mind as well as physical, breed, 5 month old male Briard. We are walking everywhere, socialisation is coming on very well, very stable happy dog. He has hit that age now though where he feels that he knows best.

He is my third of this breed and as it has been 10 years since my last pup, I had forgotten how bloody minded and strong they are when learning lead walking manners. I am definitely feeling my age now as he wears me out.

We are currently just using a leather collar and shortish lead when walking outside. In the garden and field beside the house we use a long line on him for recall training.

He knows the word "heel" and does do this when he isn't watching the world go by. He gets excited as does every pup when out and often pulls. I use the word "stop" he understands and we come to halt. We often stop when he is really pulling or turn around and walk the other way. I use the words "watch me" when there are distractions such as people, speeding cars, cats, dogs, chickens etc and he will sit and look up at me, albeit keeping an eye on what is going on. Treats are used when the behaviour warrants them but to be honest, treats don't really rock his boat. I have tried all manner of things, cheese, dried liver, chicken etc and although he will eat them, they are not high reward in his mind. He won't entertain a toy when out.

I vary the times that we go out each day and also the walks. We go out in the car several times a week to shops, high streets and even the pub. He still insists on trying to pull my arm out of its socket at certain times. Him and I are getting fed up with this so I am thinking that there may be something else other than a collar that we can use. I have always worked on the assumption that they improve as they get older and with the correct training and more importantly, making sure that the dog understands, it will all work out but right now, with the winter approaching, I can see me getting pulled over in the ice and snow and don't really fancy the idea.

I have used different harness' in the past on my other 2 but didn't really feel that they worked very well. I have used the old style haltis, again different styles and makes with a degree of success.

As he now weighs 25 kilos at not quite 5 months old, I need something that is going to be effective and that will help me teach him not to pull. Pulling him back is a waste of time (I only do this if he is in danger) as it doesn't teach him anything, only to pull, the only thing that makes a small amount of difference to his behaviour is talking to him, heel, stop, come along, toilet command. It normally takes us 20 minutes to not actually go that far as we seem to spend all of our time either stopping or turning and walking back the other way. I also let him have 10 minutes being a lunatic off lead in the garden or field before lead walking to burn off energy. I can't let him go too mad as he is a large breed and too much exercise at this age is
damaging.

I completely accept that this is a stage that he is going through as he is still very young and the world is an exciting place. I have got through it before and am now starting to remember my others when they were young. Amazing how you can look back at the past with rose tinted glasses isn't it? Only when you go through it all again do you realise...

Any recommendations/collars, harness etc that have worked?

I used a Dogmatic head collar on a very stubborn retriever which saved my arm sockets. Not used a harness, so don't know how effective they are, it always looks as if they could pull even more with some harnesses.
Know what you mean about rose tinted specs. Having similar problems with our pup and it's not helped by exciting leaves been blown about today.

>Having similar problems with our pup and it's not helped by exciting leaves been blown about today.

Lol, I know exactly what you mean!

I have just gone to my cupboard where I keep redundant harness' collars etc and found a dogmatic head collar in there that was used on my bitch in her younger days, the only thing that I didn't like about it was that it kept riding up around her eyes but I will try it on him for our walk this afternoon, it is worth a try, thanks :-)

I have a 40 kg steam train Lab who has no concept of walking to the heel (18 months of very little walking or trying with his orevious owners)

I sourced this harness and have found it excellent , it really helps to control him and is easy to put on and off once to get the hang if it. I have used various types of harnesses and head collars and this is by far the best I have used.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0062ME8WG

I walked my TM on a Halti harness, although most of the time he didn't pull, if he saw something dart out in front of him, he was capable of yanking me off my feet if he took me unawares.
The harness is one of these ones that clip the lead on at the front, I found it very good at taking the steam out of his pull without being too restrictive.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><br />I sourced this harness and have found it excellent , it really helps to control him and is easy to put on and off once to get the hang if it.

I use this type of harness for Roscoe, it's the only one that stops him pulling  me all over the place. He knows how to walk nicely but when he decides he wants to go somewhere he can be a handful. The stop pull harness just gives me the ability to keep hold of him. I never hugged a tree till I had him lol

Thanks for all of the feedback...very interesting to hear what works :-)

I use a harness on my bitch, although she is 9 yrs old later this year she can still be a handful and we invested in a Mekuti harness (mekuti.co.uk). Not overly cheap but apparently it works for her, OH walks her on this as I don't like harness' and she walks better for me with a normal collar. I also find this one difficult to put on and she loses patience with me, never was any good at problem solving...

I tried the dogmatic head collar on pup in the field first before venturing further afield as I realised that I should have really let him wear it around the house first to get used to. Apart from the first shock when I put it on him with some impressive paw movements, (had to practice on my big girl first as I had forgotten how to put it on...told you I was useless at basic problem solving) he was fine and it certainly stopped him pulling and seemed to calm him down, although that might have been the race around the field that he had first.

I will see how this works for the next few days but am still interested in reading what others have found useful :-)

Every dog is different. Roscoe did head stands with head collars yet Logan wears a halti head collar quite happily. I have found that most dogs accept harnesses more readily than head collars.

When I got my girl a harness it had a ring on the chest as well as the back. I noticed that when on the chest ring she walked along better as when she went to pull forward it turned her back around.

That's why i like the Mekuti. It is a harness with a lot of options.... multi purpose in fact. And many leads can be used with it at a pinch, not just the double ended ones. If you are also having your dog on a long-line, then it will do very well... it's not dissimilar to the style of harness used for tracking so it could even be used for that.
Mine is several years old now and has survived many dips in the sea and other waters,there's not even a hint of it wearing out.

Try the Dog Bridle we have found them to be very effective and 'kinder' than regular haltis and harnesses.

> we invested in a Mekuti harness (mekuti.co.uk).

I am going through this at the moment with my youngster. She pulls so hard on a normal collar you can hear her breath rasping as she chokes herself :(. She hates head collars. I have just bought a Halti harness in the hope it might help but it is not working. One of the problems being I have to walk her with other dogs. I dont walk her on her own. but even so the idea that the lead attaches at the front stops them pulling so hard doesnt seem to work as I find it slips round so she can still pull into it. does the Mekuti harness work and better. I see that needs a double ended lead. 

does anyone have any other suggestions? I wont use the harnesses which work by pulling under the armpits as I find the dog soon gets sore and I dont like the idea of a device that works with pain to stop the pulling.

Newyork, we had this problem with our bitch. She used to literally choke on all kinds of collars and hated head collars, she would also do hand stands,  her eyes would bulge and get so bloodshot I was really worried about what this was doing to her skeleton and health :-(

The mekuti harness actually does stop her pulling and she seems more at ease with it. It comes with a double ended lead and the idea is that you steer the dog rather than try and wrestle with it and it doesn't slip round or ride under the armpits if fitted correctly and more importantly, it doesn't cause any discomfort. As my bitch is a very long thick coated breed, we used to find that some of the harness' that we used would rip her coat and cause skin irritation but this doesn't do that.

I would say that it is definitely worth a try, they need to get used to it but if I wasn't so illiterate when it came to fitting it, I would use it more when walking her but OH won't walk her without it. ;-)

> I dont walk her on her own. but even so the idea that the lead attaches at the front stops them pulling so hard doesnt seem to work as I find it slips round so she can still pull into it.

Halti harnesses are sods for this - good idea, badly executed.  I have a homemade version for Linc:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uuCC6rfFT0k/UNhbfg9NlTI/AAAAAAAAAVY/6p07ebkBh7k/s480/181876_10151588101620299_414521890_n.jpg

It's not amazing, it's the first one I've done so it needs a bit of tweaking but it works better than the halti version as there's no slippage - the front ring is secured dead centre.  Downside is it has to be made to measure as that strap isn't adjustable.

I found the PAH 'control harness' works well for the same thing - it has a front ring and although it's just a basic walking harness shape, it seems to be quite sturdy if you fit it snugly.

Another option is the Walkezee - the chest strap moves through rings on the side, doesn't work for all but I did find it very good for Remy in his younger days, and Soli when I first got her.

Freedom No Pull Harness - Made in America but there are places in UK that you can mail order from.
Found a couple listed on the US website.
http://www.goodfordogs.co.uk/
http://www.inthedoghouse.org.uk/

You can also if you Google the Freedom No Pull Harness see You Tube clips of people using
the harness to see if you think it will be right for your needs.

This lady makes lovely fleece lined collars, leads, head collars and harness. She also does soft webbing ones, all made to measure.
She will put extra D rings or modify existing design. All washable and hard wearing and if you have any sort of problem you can send it back to her and she will repair it.
She makes a lot of stuff for Fly ball and agility teams. Very reasonably priced and she does anti- pull harnesses.
http://www.fleurdeleadz.co.uk/

Stubborn Spinone and Clumbers here, Dogmatic works great for the Clumbers and 1 Spin, and a K9 Bridle for the other Spin.  Dogmatics and K9 bridles are both great but different things suit different dogs, my girl refuses to wear the Dogmatic but is fine on a K9 Bridle.  Personally I prefer the bridle as its at the back of the head rather than under the chin but horses for courses :)

I use a dogmatic with my afghan boy, and he walks beautifully on it

I know how hard it is to train a dog that is already quite big to walk nicely on a lead throughout that phase of wanting to pull absolutely everywhere as everything is so interesting! Keep at it though as you will be rewarded with a great dog when he calms down a bit!

I have used a big variety of these type of devices. With my own dogs and with client's dogs who pull a lot, I have probably used every type available. I find haltis to be next to useless for most dogs, they ride about and are easily broken. Dogmatics, again I find are a bit too restrictive but extremely well made and durable Headcollar wise, the best I have found is probably the Martingale headcollar. They are made to measure and they release when your dog stops pulling, where as other head collars I've found stay quite tight around the dog's face. They are made-to-measure but the larger ones will fit a slightly smaller dog with a bit of adjustment.

http://www.martingaleheadcollar.co.uk/

However most success has come from various no-pull harnesses. I have used the type that connects to a collar and then loops around the front legs, and I'd say that was the least effective. The most effective at stopping pulling was the easywalk harness (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Premier-Easy-Walk-Harness-Large/dp/B000BHT5OE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1384125682&sr=8-2&keywords=easywalk+harnesses) However I don't like the design too much as it is hard to fit and I find needs adjusting quite often.

The other type I have had success with is the dog-game Perfect Fit harness. Just make sure it fits before you take the tag off as they are VERY pricy! (http://dog-games-shop.co.uk/) but I've had mine for ages now and it is wearing very very well. It is best used with a double-ended lead such as the halti lead as it has a back connection and a front one.

I'm glad you found and resurrected this thread Parrysite, as I recently got an EasyWalk harness and it has done exactly what it says on the tin!
My 6 month old large breed has become quite a handful on the lead especially when she spots anything of interest ahead be it dogs, people, leaves blowing in the wind, something interesting on the ground, in fact pretty much anything. The harness stopped all that and she now walks nicely beside me, still full of beans but in a controlled fashion. Yes it is tricky to fit and needs adjusting as she is growing still and changes shape constantly, but for the sake of my back and shoulders, it's worth it. She has now started to walk better when on her collar as she is getting used to walking beside me. An interesting thing, I notice she is more calmer when she wears it and I wonder if it is the pressure across the chest acting in the same way as a thunder shirt is supposed to work.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head Jodi regarding the harness emulating a thunder shirt. I found this with my big girl, once we started using the Mekuti harness on her, it appeared to have a psychological effect on her and she was instantly calmer.

I have been using the dogmatic head collar on my pup for several weeks now and it has certainly helped me and him with walking. I have bought him one of his own now as he was using our old one. Our walks are now more of a pleasure rather than a test of wits!

I use a dogmatic on one of our Spins and a K9 Bridle on the other.  Each dog seems to find different things work better for them than others, Saffy and K9 bridles don't get on but the Dogmatics fantastic, Bracken will not walk on the Dogmatic and somehow manages to still pull, put her on a K9 bridle and she's totally fine.