Hi,
We are thinking about litter training our Papillon(we haven't got her yet though) but are not sure whether this is a good idea. Has anyone got a dog that have been litter trained? If so, is is harder/easier than taking them outside?

We are going to buy one of those pens where the puppy will sleep while we can't keep an eye on her. Do you place the tray OUT of the pen? And at night do you leave the tray in the same place?

Up until now, I've only been reading up on toilet training for outside but then came across a webpage on litter training.

Thanks,
Amber

Hi
By pen do you mean crate?A crate can be used very effectively to toilet train a dog as long as the crate is a suitable size.A dog will not soil its bed and therefore by confining a dog to its bed(crate) it will hold its bowels/bladder until let out(take dog straight outside)
I think it would be better to leave the litter tray where it normally is so as not to confuse matters.Bear in mind that the crate should be big enough to allow the dog to be comfortable but not too big as too allow the dog a sleep area and a toilet area within the crate.
Archer

No, a friend of mine used a sort of pen so the puppy can be somewhere safe while you can't supervise. It certainly wasn't a crate though.

from the sound of your first post it was used for the same reasons though so the same applies.IMHO.
Regards Archer

Amber

If you confine the paper or litter tray to one corner of a pen it will be fine. You need to make sure the pen is big enough to keep that area separate, which should not be too much of a problem with a Papillion. If you get some cheap lino you can use it as the floor of the pen and set it up in any room where there is enough space. Your pup will not get out of the pen if you buy one with high enough sides. You can buy separate puppy pen panels and set it up to the shape and size you wish.

Stacey

Hi Archer,
I have read your reply to this thread and now I am a little concerned. We are collecting our puppy in two weeks time and our idea (having read a lot of books and replies on here) that we have bought a crate for it and was planning on putting one of those Training Mats (basically nappy material) inside the crate so it can go to the toilet in the night. Do you think that we are going about this all wrong? Would be grateful of any advice.
PJB

My only concern with anything along the lines of paper/training mats etc, is that they all may give the pup the idea that it is okay to "go" indoors, when in fact we want it to learn the exact opposite! Some pups might get confused and upset by this, and housetraining could last much longer.

Just a thought :)

I have a cage and puppy pen, but, I find as the pup gets older, they can get out of the pens, I would use a cage, ive never used a litter tray, but would that not send out "the wrong signals" to where you want the puppy to do the loo, better starting off by taking pup into the garden, and giving lots of praise and small titbits when it "performs".

Are u planning on training ur dog to go outside eventually? One of my Bostons if I have paper down he will use it, plus will ask to go outside. They can be taught to do both. If I only had the one dog I would of just litter trained her.

I know someone that has 2 peekanese (sp) and they are both litter/paper trained. Their owners perfer it this way. My aunts Shitzu is trained for both too. She said that she found it easier to train her for this and she caught onto going outside easily. She likes this idea because if she is not home then Nikeda doesn't have to hold it she can just go.

ttfn :)

Thanks to everyone who replied. I found your advice extremely helpful!!!
Amber :-)

How did you do this? train him to use both? I have my dog trained to go outside and I think she might use the litter to pee in during the day when I am not there but I can't really get her to poop and she won't pee in the liter in my presence either. I tried getting advice for this last week and got slammed by like 10 people about not trying to train her to do both.

Not sure if this is for me or not:
Dozer was paper trained in the beginning, and we have the pup so if paper is down and cage is open he will use it (Dozer). If cage is shut and he can't get in he then will go to the door and ask to go out. I think it works best if the dog is paper/litter trained first then started outside. But if u don't want them using it when u are home then it should be picked up. maybe she thinks she is bad for going in it when u are around. maybe when u notice she has used it take her too it and love her up lots of praise/treat ect. U could keep the box by the door (the same door she uses to go out) when u are not home, could even put some of her poo in it too. It may help. Good luck.

ttfn :)

there a company that sell secondnature dog litter,which is like training a cat,but with your dog,it come with a tray and litter which is made with recycled materials (paper)
tel 01273 454005
or email bobtowner1@aol.com.
you canot get it from pet shops,i was think about using on my litter of puppies next time.

Yeah, that's what I have second nature dog litter, the whole kit ;) but it's weird stuff, it's not sand like, or rock like it's small rods of recycled paper. She sort of seems to try to eat it occasionally and it's really hard to tell if the dog has gone in it or not. I don't know, I have it now but I think I am going to see how she likes cat litter, the dog litter stuff is just weird! The rods break down into powder when she uses it so then, if they do go to the bathroom, clean up is a pain, which I think is opposite of what I want. cat litter lumps up for easy cleanup. Do you know why they chose this as a better material for dogs? I am a little scared to change the material on her, I mean, she's not really even trained fully yet and that might confuse her more but does anyone know why they did that for dogs and why it would be preferable to cat litter?

Yeah, she used the litter at first before she was housebroken but that only took about a week to housebreak her so then she forgot all about the litter and just waited for us to get home (she has her own room - not as good as someone being home all day but better than a cage). So, now trying to get her to use the litter again is proving difficult.

Hi, Mikki. I own a pekingese and we also started on the second nature litter. I feel the same way about it, however, I spoke with my veterinarian about using cat litter. He told me that cat litter is not preferable because it could be toxic to most dog's systems because of the chemicals used to attract the cat to the litter. You could try using smaller amounts of the dog litter because if she uses the whole amount of a little litter, you can just dump out the whole pan, clean, and fill it up again. Also, you could get one of those sift cat litter boxes and when the litter turns to dust, after she uses it, you can sift it. I hope this helps.

Charlie is trained for both too - when we first got him , we had to papaer train him, as we didn't want to let him into the garden until his vaccs were effective because next doors dog had been very ill with a virus.

Although it did take him slightly longer to be trained to go outside, he soon caught on, and it *is* handy at times!

Hi Amber
Our pap puppy is now just on 4 months old and since the 2nd nite we had him he has slept in the cat cage on my side of the bed. Only the first nite when he was seperated from us did he ever soil or wet his cage.From then on he has gone up to 10 hours without wanting to go out. He cries and wakes me when it is time. We didnt want to confuse him by trying both litter and outside (garden) training at the same time, but as we get a lot of rain here, I wish that maybe we had tried. In the daytime however its a different story :( He stays on the lead inside at all times and the puppy pen that I conjured up myself is useless cause he just cries nonstop to be with us. Even on the other side of the ranchslider when he is outside he just wants to be close, so I spend many many hours in the garden nowdays, and boy the mossies love me for it. One thing I have found is that if you have to crate the puppy (catcage with us) make sure they are close to you, because other wise its nonstop crying and believe me its like a human baby when they get started.
Kimmie

You can tell me to mind my own business, but I feel you are making a rod for your own back by having the dog constantly with you. It will make for an unhappy insecure dog in the long run. It is impractical to never leave your dog alone, so he should learn to cope on it's own for short periods.

Put him in the play pen for a short while, and ignore the protests. As soon as he stops for even a few seconds praise him quietly 'Goood boy/Girl' Only interact and spek to him/her when there is silence. When pup is tired put him in the kitchen or wherever away from you, wnader in and out of the room, but do not acknowledge him in any way, and he should settle.

Getting a pup overattached like this is not a good idea, and you will have terrible problems with seperatiuon anxiety.

Build up the time he cah cope alone from a few minutes to an hour (while you are actually in the house) Gradually you w3ill be able to leave him to run errands where you cannot take him.