Hi all, 

I have a litter and a buyer reserved a puppy from pics that I'd put online for friends - he hasn't met the litter.

The buyer lives 100miles away but is passing thru my area to show his dog on the w/e when the pup will be 7wks 4 days.  He asked if it would be ok to collect the pup on the way back home - I told him that I didn't think she would be fully weaned by then... he doesnt seem to have listened and is trying to pay for the pup in advance of collecting her at the w/e telling me that he has had other dogs from 5 & 6 wks and had no problems. 

Every morning c. 600am the bitch asks me to go into the pen to feed them, morning c. 8.00am they drink from their mum before eating their brekkie.  They are not lacking in food, but given a chance the bitch will stand and let them drink.  i have photos from today of them guzzling for a long period of time.  I would consider this as them being 'not fully weaned'.

I'm beginning to really dislike this potential buyer - I don't like his total disregard for the welfare of the pup, he originally said he was looking for an older dog, but now can accomodate the pup needing 4-5 feeds a day.  He thinks that she'll make up for missing her littermates by being kenelled with his older dogs.  He wants to collect the pup before it's ready as it's convenient for him - in the evening after he's spent the w/e away.

He makes me feel like a neurotic housewife and I'm feeling very bullied into selling to him.  His other dogs are in fantastic condition, so he has that in his favour, and I think as an adult dog she will be well looked after, but he seems to be overlooking her needs as a pup.

Would you agree re. the mum and babies still feeding with the bitch being very happy as 'not weaned' or am I being too sentimental, as he implies?  For me it seems cruel to part them before they're ready to be independent.  I'm not good at being bullied - my husband fears that I want to keep the pup so is not backing me.

I could sell this pup over and over, but as I've verbally agreed to reserve her, can I change my mind if I want?  I'm worried for her immediate welfare - am being over the top? I'm tying myself in knots over this - another pup is reserved and I wish they wanted another they are so perfect - I cant wait for that one to go to its lovely home, I'm very dubious re. her sister's new home...

Advice much wanted before the w/e!

The fact they are still suckling from Mum would not to me mean theya re not ready to go, as many of mine will still feed pups right until they go.

It can be a bit breed dependant, but my medium size breed are really ready to go any time after 7 weeks.  For my won reasons with worming ear tattooing etc I don't allow them to go earlier than the weekend after they are 7 weeks.

My current litter are well grown advanced pups and I will allow them to go the Sunday after they are 7 weeks as they were born on a Thursday.

Guide dog pups go to their puppy walkers at 6 weeks.  The advantage of them staying past that is that they learn more about being dogs, as so many dogs have poor canine interpersonal skills from being taken away from Mu too early (prior to 6 weeks in many cases when they become hard work and demanding) but if going into a doggy household that's not really an issue.

It is quite simple if you don't like them then don't let the pup go to them.

Also a hundred miles is no excuse for not visiting before. We all lead busy lives but buying a puppy is a thing that you invest time on.

How do you one when they turn up that they decide that the pup isn't right.

Go by your rules unless you are 100% they are the right new owners.

It is quite simple if you don't like them then don't let the pup go to them.

Also a hundred miles is no excuse for not visiting before. We all lead busy lives but buying a puppy is a thing that you invest time on.

How do you one when they turn up that they decide that the pup isn't right.

Go by your rules unless you are 100% they are the right new owners.

I think this is 2 issues really.  Depending on the breed, I feel that pups are generally ready to go at 7+ weeks so the main issue is with the potential new home.

Does he plan to show her too?  I would be very dubious about selling a pup as a potential show dog without the new owner having seen her first.  From my last litter I had 2 puppies go to homes well over 100 miles away and yet both families managed to come to visit twice before collecting their pup. 

I wouldn't be happy for a young puppy being kennelled with older dogs initially, especially if they can't escape a nippy and playful pup.  We never know when they've had enough and anything could happen.

You state you're beginning to dislike this chap - the answer is simple really, don't let the pup go to him.  How you tell him is another matter....  Good luck

It depends on the breed; medium/large breeds are ready to go from about 7 weeks whereas toy breeds are better off waiting a bit longer - say 10 weeks. However I wouldn't want to sell a pup to someone who wasn't prepared to come and meet me, the mum and the litter so that we could both assess each other and decide whether or not this puppy was going to suit the person. 100 miles, although a fair distance, isn't that far for something important.

Agree what everyone has said. Also that fact that you haven't met this guy means that you haven't had a chance to assess him. I wouldn't permit a puppy of mine to go to someone that I haven't met.

Agree with above posts. No problem with a puppy leaving at 7+ weeks But, it is a massive leap of faith allowing puppies to leave  and in normal circumstances this only after careful screening of potential buyers and at least two lengthy visits and a succession of emails and telephone calls as part of the process . This buyer has made no effort to visit -100 miles is not far. I've travelled hundreds of miles to visit as have my puppy buyers. And he thinks it okay to kennel puppy with his own dogs?! How risky is that and indeed how potentially traumatic to puppy. I wouldn't care if this guy was World Champion Show Breeder or the Duke of Wherever. He wouldn't get a puppy from me.

Sounds to like your having doubts about this buyer so if it were me, ANY doubts & they dont get a pup full stop.

I think you have the same breed as myself & they really ought to be weaned from mum by around 7 weeks(depends on the bitch sometimes).
I certainly wouldnt be letting a pup go after a show if they lived only 100 miles away. What time will the pup actually get home...how much time will it get to settle into its new & strange environment!!?? Thats just 2 questions.

As others have said 100 miles would be 1.5-2 hours away & he should have visited at least once IF he was that interested he WOULD have...I know I have!!

I think you know the answer already, you just need the reassurance from some of us to say it. You have to be 100% no question.

Saffronsmith,

Of course the puppy is ready to go at this age if the new owner is down or up your way, makes perfect sense, it seems that you do not understand puppies as well as the man wanting this one?

His other dogs are in fantastic condition, He also shows his dogs

So what are you worried about?

IMO you are being overly sentimental, pups are just having a top up from mum at this age, their main diet is solid food, I always recommend warm pasturised goats milk for pups morning and evening in their new homes, most pups would continue to suckle for many weeks after 8 weeks, or until the dam makes it clear she really has had enough.

Let the man take his pup. :-)

If this man can travel  over 100 miles to a show, why hasn't he made the effort to come see the pup?     This would really bother me.     As would his plan to kennel the pup with his other dogs from the start.    Pups need supervision with older dogs  as others have said.

To be honest, I make visiting the pups and being vetted face to face a condition of being considered for one of my pups.    Meaning if someone can't be bothered, or doesn't want to come meet us, they don't get a pup - simple!   However, visiting doesn't guarantee a pup either, that depends on everything being right when they visit and they are told this right from the start.

As for having a verbal contract, surely that depended on the information given at the time, did he promise to come see the pups before picking her up?

What is he buying the pup for?   Pet, show, breeding?   Or all three?

,

What is worrying me is there is a little niggling doubt in your head , you will not settle if you let your pup go with him.

Also if he is wanting your pup to show and he has booked it off only pictures , to me this is not right , if I were wanting a pup to show I would have to see it in the flesh before I committed , if it does not live up to his expectations , will he move it on ?

I know you are being sentimental but I understand this very well , I would speak with the gentleman and politely explain that you feel that things don't feel right so you are going to keep your puppy a bit longer then maybe decide to home her later , hopefully he will get the message .

Trouble is the OP accepted the man with whatever kind of vetting she gave him and seems she was happy with him before he wanted to collect the pup at 7 weeks 4 days, this is the main thing which is getting her in a tizzy, not herself understanding the weaning process, and she doesn't like that he is not accepting it is not ok to pick the pup up now, which we all know it is....... 

The man seems to have reared his other dogs ok and the op says they are in excellent condition, I dare say he is extremely well versed in looking after pups and adult dogs, and doubt he is going to chuck a pup in a kennel with adult dogs but he meant that the pup will spend time with them, and so not miss it's siblings as this seems to be the OP's worry. We're not hearing from the 'new owner' exactly what the routine would be. The OP should have checked all of these things, it's maddening that at the time of collection doubts are now creeping in (sometimes that is warrented but this time I don't see it) and to me there is no real reason apart from the early collection. There should have been indepth conversations about how the pup would be cared for etc and there probably was?

IMO if this man has other dogs in great condition, he is well capable of rearing a pup, did he or did he not rear his other dogs from pups? I dare say he did.

As for not meeting the man personally and him not visiting, that is no-ones fault but the OP's I would not sell a pup without meeting the owner, but that is not the 'owners' fault, she has gone on his showing ability/reputation and how his other dogs look, fair enough many of us do the same when buying selling abroad, so meeting in some cases is not the be all and end all in choosing an owner.

This is just nerves as far as I can see, and I can't see a justifyable reason why this man should now be turned down?

Agree mainly with the others. A day or two after 7 weeks is the ideal age for most breeds to go unless small toys which I would not let go before 12 weeks. You definitely cannot go on when pups stop suckling as some will push their luck and keep going for a long time. (See it all the time in the pup kept from the litter.) Personally I also wouldn't worry too much about the person not having visited IF you have spoken at length with them and have liked what you have heard. Presumably with a show person it shouldn't be too hard to ask around your friends in the breed and get first hand recommendations. I agree 100 miles is nothing to travel to view a pup and I have had buyers travelling several times that distance both just to view and to meet the mother before pups were even born. But why did he not come before? Did he have an actual reason, such as not being able to leave his dogs , and on the show day he had somebody at home with them so it was easier that day? Find out.

To ME, the main question would be whether I would be happy to sell a puppy to somebody who would kennel it from day one. I generally MUCH prefer my pups going to homes where they live indoors as part of the family but of course there are always exceptions. Twice I have sold pups that I knew would be kennelled from day one, but the circumstances made me happy to accept. One pup went to an active couple who would have to kennel the pup part time when nobody was at home -both worked but not the same times, so we were talking about the odd hour here and there, and then I much preferred an outdoor kennel with run (and therefore the ability to go to toilet) to an indoor wire cage. Five years on this dog is a much loved family member being kept very active when the owners are at home. The other case  involved two pups that were going to be working dogs and hence had to be used to being kennelled, but  from day one received a lot of training and attention, far more so than your average pet puppy.

At the end of the day it is entirely up to you -YOU have to be happy with the home you send your pup to.

>, but as I've verbally agreed to reserve her, can I change my mind if I want?

Yes, most definitely you can.  I once had what seemed to be an ideal owner for one of my pups.  We had never met, but exchanged a lot of emails and several promising phone calls.  On the day of collection she took 4 hours to get here.

Staying a couple of hours when they arrived she never once told her 4 kids to behave and they ran amok, making noise and showing off.  I was led to believe that the pup was for this lady, until the 10 year old said well are we going now and "which pup is mine."  I was gobsmacked, this boy was not a suitable puppy owner.  And the oddest thing for me was the fact that none of these children stroked a dog all the time they were here.  I always let all the gang meet and greet, so people can see the temperament.

It wasn't easy, but I knew I wouldn't see this woman again.  I bit the bullet, took a deep breath, and said "I'm sorry but I can't sell you one of my precious pups, I'm not happy with the children."

Your litter, your choice.

Thank you everyone for your inputs - the major part of my getting my head around selling this pup to this man is that it is a working home (she'll be shown at game fairs etc.)  , and my dogs have only ever had pet homes with indoor lives.  

Having owned my breed for 17yrs I now concede that a working home is probably their dream come true - this pup is very outgoing and will probably settle well, compared to some of the others in the litter.  I just wish the little bitch was more independent of her mum - I recognise that she wont be getting much nutrition from her, but I worry how it affects her psychologically when she's going to have such a different life when/if she leaves me.

I think working dogs have a very different lifestyle to showring or pet dogs - its this that I'm finding extra hard.  The man didnt endear himself to me describing all showring dogs as fat and unfit.  His dogs ARE kept in good condition though but are precious to him in a different and unsentimental way.
         

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:-D

Saffronsmith, I can see where you are coming from, my mother and 2 x brothers have had working/duel purpose dogs all of their life and you are right they do have a fabulous life, doing what they were bred to do, it is rewarding and they are as you say extremely precious to their owners and well cared for. They actually get to live a dogs life, what could be better :-) Just as those with duel purpose dogs who get to do agility, flyball etc.

I don't doubt that you could find this pup a family home, but do you know I always prefer my pups to go to people who know dogs, really know dogs, and yes, family homes can also be in that category, however, there is always the risk with a family home that 7-8 months on the pups are re-homed because they could not deal with adolescence or the training or they have a bored dog not getting what it needs, first time owners can especially go either way.

The man probably is coming across badly to you because he knows perfectly well that the pup will be fine, and probably does think you are being too precious over the pup, especially if she is with her own kind (who will teach her so much) it will ease the change from your home to a new home, the pups are your babies, and I certainly understand your feelings, I have those too. ;-)

Now that you know it is ok for your pup to leave at this age, (honestly it is :-) ) I would advise that you have the man over when he is in the area, see for yourself how he is with your pup and you'll probably see he is a natural and understands your puppy so much more than you think and hopefully he will blow away all your worries, however, if when he comes you do not feel this way, just be honest and say that you are sorry to waste his time, but you don't feel happy to let the pup go to him.

I hope you won't feel that way as it sounds like a good home, but you won't really know until you meet him, I've on paper been extremely impressed with some people but when I've met them, I've changed my mind, and vice versa some people have won me over...........

Please remember often the huggy, cuddly people with your pups may end up re-homing or bringing them up with no real 'dog' life, think carefully about what your pups/dogs actually enjoy doing and what the home in question will provide for them.

Carrington ~ if this man was really interested in having a puppy, he should have found time, by now to have visited the litter. He is only 100 miles away & I, like many others certainly would have gone to see the puppy before bringing it home at that short distance.

Many of us have had dogs a goodly amount of years but I know, I get very excited, when getting a new puppy & go as many times, as convenient, before bringing a puppy home with me.

Saffronsmith ~ please if you are having any doubts, dont work yourself into a frenzy, let him down. There is someone out there who you will be 100% happy with...I can assure you there is.

Lexy, yes, I agree I've travelled hundreds of miles and people do the same with myself, but we don't know the conversation between the OP and the potential owner or the reasons why? I personally would never choose a pup without meeting it either, that's a strange one for me, but who knows the man may just know the lines very well? The thing is we don't know what has gone on here, how he came to be accepted as the pups potential owner, but up until now he has been, whether we agree with the way it was done or not.

All we do know is that the OP accepted the man as her pups owner prior to him becoming 'pushy' which in reality he is not really being he obviously wants to just pick up the pup whilst he is entering his adult dog in a competition down/up her way.

A lot of things here have not been done the way you or I would do things, but the most important thing is to meet the man, only then will the OP get the full picture, and also the man in question, for all we know he may also change his mind.

It's a strange way of doing things I agree, but the man needs to be met more than anything. :-) And we don't know the conversations between both parties.

another pup is reserved and I wish they wanted another they are so perfect

This also worried me that anyone would wish to sell two pups together, (given the chance) it just seems that sentiment is getting in the way here, how could two pups together be viewed as perfect and a perfect home, I worry about what the 'perfect home' is seen as, by our OP. One persons perfect might be another's nightmare. :-D

Two pups sold together are very unfair on both pups and owner and no good breeder would ever agree to it. I'd rather sell a pup to a kennelled working home than two to a family home as it would be a much nicer home!

I simply would not be homing a puppy with someone I hadn't met............100 milesis nothing to come and meet you!

Diane

> a buyer reserved a puppy from pics that I'd put online for friends - he hasn't met the litter.

> His other dogs are in fantastic condition, so he has that in his favour.  His dogs ARE kept in good condition though but are precious to him in a different and unsentimental way.

> I'm feeling very bullied into selling to him

OK forget the age of the pup etc just for a moment...  WHY did you agree to sell him a puppy without meeting him first?  Presumably you haven't met his other dogs either.

I can see why you are starting to question your decision but I can fully understand his frustration too - rightly or wrongly you have agreed to sell him this puppy and he's probably wondering why you've suddenly got cold feet when you've already made a commitment.  I suspect he wishes to pay in advance to stop you from changing your mind and he probably feels unfairly treated. 

If you'd insisted on meeting him before agreeing to sell him a puppy you'd have been able to get these questions answered and then, if he wasn't right for one of your puppies, he would have been able to look elsewhere and you wouldn't have this last minute worry. 

I didn't see the litter from the last puppy I bought. It was the opposite side of Europe and I had planned on a few occasions to fly over but due to unforeseen personal circumstances and work commitments for both me and the breeder I didn't end up going. Not ideal i know, i had already flown and met a few breeders in other countries, chatted to a few when they came to the UK and genrally spent years researching. For me 100 miles isn't far at all and I'd expect a person to visit, if it were me and it were only a factor of age I'd let the puppy go as by that age my breed are ready to leave. But at the end of the day it is your puppy and toatlly up to you.

Is the pup going to be kenelled with the older dogs or beside the older dogs?

If you have doubts next time he rings say he has been pressurizing you too much you know whats best for your pups and you have decided that you will not be selling the pup to him.Easy for me to say but if you arnt happy whatever the reason pull out.