We have been taking our 13 week old weimaraner puppy out for walks for about a week.  We are finding it impossible to do any sort of training with her (loose lead walking, getting her to concentrate on us...etc) because as soon as she is made to be by our sides she either jumps and bites our legs, or chases and bites our ankles. 
Things we have tried as recommended by puppy school teachers that have no effect...
"uh uh" noise
"no!"
'parking' the puppy on her lead (ie standing on it) - she just eats our ankles or feet
holding her away from us using a short lead at arms' length - turns it into a game where she repeatedly jumps and bites
fingers in her collar to hold her away - she bites my hands, rolls on the floor, etc until I have to let go.

In the house, she is well behaved now, she doesn't bite (much), as we have an area where we can put her on 'time out' as soon as she does anything wrong.  Obviously on a walk, we can't do that (although we have tried tying her to a railing, but when we are crossing a road with a puppy attached to our legs, this isn't an option).  Her temperament is generally very loving and calm, but outside she turns into a little monster!
It isn't just a case of her being tired and playing up, as this happens at all points during the walk.
During puppy school training, and walks, it is also impossible to train her, as we cannot get her attention, even with food.  Everything else is far to interesting.
Any advice would be very very welcome, as the response from our trainer has not be helpful at all ('oh no, she mustn't do that.  tell her no!"...)
Thank you!!

You seem to have the same problem as we do! Sorry that's not helpful at all. Our 18 week old GR pup is lovely and calm at home, put her on the lead and she's bouncing about, grabbing the lead, having a tug of war and so on. I've tried ignoring her, no difference, telling her off, no difference, spraying the lead with a bitter spray, no difference. If I hold a treat in my left hand she stops the lead grabbing and moves onto my hand. At least she is not grabbing our clothes now, that does pass reasonably quickly. Have you tried stopping and turning away from her and ignoring her? I find that has a reasonable effect, but you do need to be persistent until she realises you are not going anywhere, but pups this young are not really bothered about going anywhere and just want to play. Isla is reducing on the lead grabbing, now only for a short time as the pleasure of going out for a walk is more fun. Have you tried her off lead, in a safe place of course? It's a good idea to let young pups off the lead and encourage them to follow you as much as possible rather then keeping them on lead until they are older. We practice recall almost constantly when out, just backwards and forwards between us with lots of praise and treats. We use a whistle to call her as well as voice. Her breeders used a whistle every time they fed the puppies from as soon as they started weaning. As the puppies rushed forward to the food bowls, they would give two peeps on the whistle so that they associate a whistle with a reward, food in this case. Consequently Isla responds immediately to the whistle without even thinking as it has become instinctive. It may be worth starting this with your pup when you feed her so the association of the whistle is for her to come to you. Good luck and I hope someone else will come along with the answer!

ignoring her by turning around doesn't work, she just eats my boot / jumps.  She is very good at finding something else to entertain herself with if we are ignoring her!  We live in London, so nowhere to let her off lead (unless we visit our parents), and in those situations she is fantastic at recall, but then there are no distractions in a garden!  On her retractable lead, she will come to us when called, but then jump and eat my jeans (and thighs).  I like the idea of the whistle, we will try that!
I guess my main question is how to stop the biting (legs, ankles and hands) when we are walking and I cannot remove myself from her.  Is there a method of restraining her that a) won't hurt her (or me), and b) will calm her down so that I can get control back.  I'm certainly not in control when she is rolling all over the floor biting me!  It is SO embarrassing!

Do you have a garden at home where you can practice encouraging your dog to walk beside you (off lead)? The problem about getting a puppy to learn the heel command is to get them to do it which is hard when they are leaping about like a mad thing on the end of a lead. Off lead in the back garden is much easier. Have plenty of treats and encourage her to walk along beside you using a treat. Once she starts doing this consistently introduce the word 'heel' and give her praise as well as a great. Allow her to get in front of you and encourage her back to the heel position and give the word and a treat. The hope is that she will quickly associate the word heel with walking nicely alongside you. That's the theory anyway. I find that Isla is more responsive if she is beginning to feel a bit weary, so I play with her a bit before taking her out, chasing up and down after a ball something like that. Your pup is still a baby and it will improve. Is there someone with a sensible older dog who could walk with you a bit so your pups attention is more on the other dog and less on you?

I would try to stack the odds in your favour, if the pup is fed dry food I would get it to 'work' for his food by using it's food as training treats. I would do a 10 minute training session off lead in the garden, make sure your pup is mentally tired and then try walking so that the excited 'edge' is off.

I am a professional dog walker at the moment, and I have a cocker pup who is just like this. 5 minutes work with the clicker before his walk and he is like a different dog :)

I have just been through this with my third Briard pup...in fact he is only 18 weeks old but a lot better than he was. Things that I have done with a certain amount of success.

Played with him in the garden for 10 minutes BEFORE a walk so that it takes the edge off his energy and he is more focussed. I have done this with a degree of success with all other dogs as they need to burn off energy before being expected to walk sensibly.
Popped his lead on at random times throughout the day and practiced lead walking with him, in the house, out in the garden etc
Now that he is older, we go for 3 or 4 short walks a day but always after he has had a play session, either with myself or with my other big girl.
If he starts to act up, I stop dead, no moving, no eye contact nothing. He doesn't get one step forward or a reaction from me until he calms down. He often does the jumping and biting when he is bored so is looking for a reaction. He used to get a sharp no when he bit or jumped and then nothing.
He will still jump and bite when my teenage daughter walks him as he gets the right reactions from her so I am currently trying to teach her to give no reaction, although it is hard for her as he does hurt her, he currently weighs 25 kilos.

It is a puppy phase that they will grow out of but I sympathise because it's not easy and it does seem to go on forever. I find that if they are doing something undesirable you have to keep doing it repetitively, several times a day so that they can learn the right way to behave. At the moment my pup is scared of a tree stump that we walk past...yes he is going through one of his fear stages, so we walk past it 3 times a day at the moment and he is now skirting round it rather than jumping up at me and reversing. He also has a dislike of people who wear hats, so yesterday when it was raining, we walked along our local city high street and just sat down on a bench where people were walking by using umbrellas (another thing he hates) and wearing hats, by the end of it, he saw so many I honestly think that he was bored with it all. We will keep doing it several times a week until he had got over his problem.

This brings back so many memories, my weim is now 19month old and boy was I frustrated with her at the start, she wouldn't do anything other than eat sticks, stones and anything else she could sniff out, she pulled, wouldn't get off from the couch when asked, the list is endless but, there is light at the end of the tunnel, other than constant training with her she's now a very socialable laid back dog, yes she still gets things wrong from time to time but hey don't we all? I didn't find the puppy classes or training much good, could just be I was unlucky but, I did find a book "it's me or the dog" Victoria Stillwell an excellent read and very helpful, I also found using a spray bottle with water a brilliant deterant, again some may disagree but it didn't hurt her at all just really got her brain focused on something else other than what she was trying to do, previously owning another weim before this 1 I had forgot how hard it could be but, I wouldn't swap her for anything now, good luck.

> "uh uh" noise

> "no!"
> 'parking' the puppy on her lead (ie standing on it) - she just eats our ankles or feet
> holding her away from us using a short lead at arms' length - turns it into a game where she repeatedly jumps and bites
> fingers in her collar to hold her away - she bites my hands, rolls on the floor, etc until I have to let go.

None of which will do anything to help her increase her self control (likewise making her be by your side), which is the root of the problem and could well damage your relationship with her (as you're just becoming a source of frustration and unpleasantness).  Your trainer sounds hopeless - 'no' means nothing to a dog unless you teach them what it means - and even then, it just means 'stop' not 'I want you to do this instead'.  So the dog doesn't actually learn what she should be doing, ends up frustrated and the problem continues.

First thing I would do is teach a positive interruptor - dead simple, pair a kissy noise (or whatever you like) with a treat to charge it up as you would a clicker (so kiss+treat over and over until she makes the connection.  Then you've got something you can use in an instant to interrupt her and distract her from whatever she's doing - this works in all situations and has been a godsend for my collie pup!

Next, you need to work on her self control.  This means things like having her wait for her food, wait to go through doorways, sit calmly to have the lead put on/taken off (ditto the collar if you take it off at home) and so on.  These seem unrelated but they do all help as they teach pup that being calm and sensible gets her what she wants.

Specifically for the craziness on lead - two prong approach.  First, training her to walk nicely using super duper treats, just rewarding her any time she isn't doing something crazy - and I mean any time.  Even if she pauses for breath during craziness, reward it.  Off lead too - if she's being anything vaguely resembling calm, reward it.  I'd be expecting you to be rewarding something like every 6 seconds to begin with as you mark and reward every hint of sense.  Once she's walking fairly sensibly, you can start to just reward her for walking nicely next to you, so you refine the behaviour.

Second, alongside the above, I like to play a game called 'Go wild and freeze' - I find it immensely useful for dogs with this particular issue and this year I've been working with two who had it to the nth degree, both big dogs too (working lines springer/lab and a hefty inuit, both doing exactly what you describe at 7 months when I started with them).  It really helps with the self control specifically during revved-up moments.  Build it up though - start with just a little encouragement so puppy doesn't go *too* wild to start with, so you are able to get the freeze.  As her self control improves you can increase your efforts.  Video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzM0nvlQPsY

And another thing I like to use is hand touches - these can help make the dog more aware of her mouth, as a hand touch requires her to touch your hand with her nose ONLY - no teeth or tongue.  To start with you may get some of that but again you can refine it, once she's doing it reliably, by only rewarding nose-only touches.  She'll become more aware of what she's doing with her mouth, and people become more for poking than biting :-P  Also a useful tool for getting focus back if she's starting to get a bit silly.  Video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSJVwZybwo

Have a look through the other vids by Kikopup (the second video bod), she has a lot of fantastic stuff :-)

Fantastic advice Nikita.
I do some of the things without really thinking as have had dogs for so long that I forget that brand new dog owners don't realise to do this, such as dog sitting before lead is put on or taken off, going through doorways first etc.
The go mad/freeze and nose touch sound interesting - just off to peruse YouTube. Agree about Kikopup videos, that lady has a magic touch.

> going through doorways first etc

I don't do that at all - I'd have grown old by the time I got four dogs excited for a walk to let me go first!  :-P

Just watched the "touch" video. That is just brilliant and I can think of lots of ways that can be deployed, teaching walking to heel will be the major one.
Waiting for Isla to wake up now!!!

I don't do that at all - I'd have grown old by the time I got four dogs excited for a walk to let me go first! 

I can imagine! I managed to do it with two dogs, but four... Phew

One dog is much easier to train as you can give them attention at any time and do small things at any given oppourtunity, sitting patiently whilst their food is being prepared, hard to do when there are more all bouncing up and down and copying each other. On the other hand rearing a puppy with an older dog is helping makes it a more restful experience I've found. Probably because I'm older, but I'm sleeping so well at night after a day with the puppy.

Great post Nikita

To the OP - regarding training in general.  As Nikita says "These seem unrelated but they do all help as they teach pup that being calm and sensible gets her what she wants".  I concur, all training, and any training, increases the bond between you and your puppy, and raises their awareness that looking at you for instruction and concentrating really brings results.  Food aware puppies cotton on to 'treats for tasks' really quickly and even the hyper ones start to make small noticeable changes every day.

Try and build in short simple training sessions throughout the day - I would often do a few things with the pup whilst waiting for the kettle to boil for instance.  Or I'd attach a lead and we'd walk around the house.  Do also look for a good training class that does the KC Good Citizens training.  They cover most of the exercises Nikita refers to and it's so helpful to see someone do it first.

Can I also recommend The Puppy Primer by Patricia McConnell - she's an excellent trainer, and author, and this book is full of common sense advice and simple exercises to develop your puppy.

I can walk out of my door first even with 4 dogs, but I can't stop the younger two shrieking with excitement and pulling madly to try to chase the neighbour's cats! :-p

I'd rather let them out first lol!  Shrieking goes right through me :-P

My guys are fairly sensible going out, there's no bouncing or silliness and that's good enough for me :-)

Any dog let alone a puppy is incapable of learning anything if its head is in bits because its over-excited.

When any of my pups have reached this point, I stop and very very calmly stroke them with very long strokes and speak to them very slowly, quietly and calmly.  Its only when they are calm that they can take in anything that you are trying to teach them.

I have 7 dogs, 3 under 2 years and they all wait at the door and gates for me to go through first, it would be dangerous if they didn't.

Any dog let alone a puppy is incapable of learning anything if its head is in bits because its over-excited.


Completely agree with this. All pups get over excited and often the owner can unwittingly make things worse. Pup gets excited, owner raises voice, flaps around a bit trying to calm the pup which all equals good fun for the pup ending with an exasperated owner lol - they can pick up on the subtlest signs from us and our energy is often emitted to them without us realising it. I learnt that lesson a long time ago, my dog at that time was aggressive towards other dogs, whenever we saw a dog, I tensed up without realising it, this travelled down the lead and actually made him worse. He was so much better when walked by OH, who didn't have the same phobia and fear as I did. We did eventually get over it but it took me a long time to relax, I was the one who was holding him back metaphorically speaking.

Also very true that when you have had dogs for many years you aren't actually aware of some of the commands/training that you do. If we video'd ourselves for a whole day with the dogs, it would be quite an eye opener as to the body language/signs that we give them. Well, for me anyway.

I have always taught my dogs to sit/wait at doors, food time, before getting in the car etc. It is just good manners and as my dogs are very large, it would be dangerous if they didn't do this. If they run into me by accident they knock me over.

Totally agree with Nikita, I also recommend you find a different/better trainer!  Have a look at www.apdt.co.uk or at www.puppyschool.co.uk  Belonging to one of these organisations doesn't mean the trainer will be good though (as you'll know if your current one is) - but it does better the chances.

With a 13wk puppy, I wouldn't recommend even attempting to do any training with her when you are out and about.  She is going to be far more interested in the world - as she should be at this age.  With a 13wk puppy, you shouldn't be going out to 'walk' the dog or even to train her - but to target socialisation opportunities.  Has she met ducks/sheep/cows/horses yet?  Has she experienced traffic/skateboards/bikes/rollerskates?  Has she met men, women, children, old people, people wearing motorbike helmets, people in wheelchairs, people carrying crutches?  Has she seen water and experienced the sea/a river/lake from the bank?  Has she walked on many different surfaces, etc etc etc...  Has she met friendly puppies to play with and friendly adult dogs?

THIS is what is the most essential material for any young puppy.  Too often young puppy owners get caught up in the idea they should be 'training' their puppy all the time, and the puppy misses out on valuable socialisation.  Training can be done at any age - an adult dog can learn as well as a puppy.  Socialisation can ONLY take place now (up to the age of 14-16wks).  The clock is ticking.  Don't ask her to sit or do anything when she is meeting all the above - she won't.  Best not to give a cue which will be ignored, and anyway - she needs to be able to concentrate fully on these new things, to take them in.  Not having to concentrate on you and what you're saying!

If you do want to do some training with her, keep it in the house only and use extremely tasty treats.  At class, again take extremely tasty treats.  (Sausages, cheese, ham etc).  Weims are very food motivated and if you're not overfeeding her, she should still be motivated in class. 

Meanwhile, there are lots of 'household' training issues to cover - toilet training, crate training, alone training, bite inhibition during play, chewing the right things - etc etc.  Any new puppy owner has more than enough on their plate dealing with socialisation and these household issues. 

Once she leaves the socialisation period and you have the household stuff set up well and she is 14-16wks, then you can focus more on training - but not for now.  For now, just do a bit at home each day and don't even attempt it outdoors.

This is so helpful, thank you Nikita, while understanding that it is the frustration that causes her to act this way, I hadn't connected the impulse control training, and that is what we will focus on now!
She is now crossing the road nicely without biting (showing her a treat before we cross the road and giving it to her when we have reached the other side helps her to focus on crossing and not biting!)
The issue biting/jumping problem is now just occurring in the park, often after she has just been playing with other dogs, or after a long run (her 'go wild' bit), so we just need to work on the 'freeze' command. 

One more bit of advice needed though - I am conscious that she needs to learn her bite inhibition.  Solving the aggressive biting problem by calming her down is great (and we will learn the freeze command), but how will she learn that biting that hard is not acceptable?  She doesn't bite or mouth in the house, as she gets put immediately into time out, but out of the house, where these is no time out spot, she will.  And her jaws are getting strong!  I can't walk off or ignore her, that just isn't safe.  It seems to have got worse since she has been playing with other dogs, as many of them are older, and just ignore her biting (very well behaved, but I would quite like them to put her in her place when she bites!).

When she is off lead, and she bites, how do I teach her that is a no?

So far she only bites me and my husband, but her teeth are sharp and it hurts, and if she goes for someone else that is seriously bad news.  If I got bitten by someone else's dog, the way she goes for me, I would be really cross!  The problem is that she is so cute, that everyone wants to play with her.  So far, she is lovely with them, but who knows what could happen in the future!

I wonder if it's because she hasn't been taught not to bite, that humans are fragile and don't want to be gnawed at. If she is put out every time she uses her teeth on you, she is not learning that humans don't want to be bitten. My retriever pup has been very mouthy, so every time she grabbed me I squealed like a puppy might and looked upset and withdrew my attention. If she kept on grabbing at my hands, I yelped again and stood up and turned my back on her and ignored her, if she still kept on, then I walked out on her withdrawing completely from her. Only left her for a minute or so, then back to playing. If she mouthed again I repeated the whole process. She learnt very quickly that biting human hands did not get her anywhere and the playtime stopped. I moved onto yelping at the slightest bit of mouthing and if she grabs clothing which she rarely does now. I've even tried it if she bites the lead which has some effect. Dr Ian Dunbars 'the bite stops here' explains it very well.

If she still mouths you or grabs at your clothing then the yelping hasn't worked has it ? The dog in my avatar is a rescue who had had no bite inhibition teaching as the rescue had so many puppies in at the time. When I got him he was very very mouthy. I used a method taught to me by a shepherd many years ago. I simply made my hands into fist with the thumbs tucked in & ignored him completely when he started. I never reacted at all & rewarded him when he had stopped. If this had not worked I would have walked away from him & left the room out of sight, again in total silence & returned 30 secs or so later. The first method stopped him mouthing the first day I had him & he has never offered to mouth me or anyone else again. He was only 8 weeks old at the time.

The shepherd advised me not to yelp as this mimics the noises made by the litter mates when playing & doesn't stop the play. Also the adult dog never does this, young puppies being allowed to do a lot of unacceptable behaviour to humans until they hit 6 months or so or they have their adult teeth

She has stopped mouthing Tommee yelping worked as far as I'm concerned.

I moved onto yelping at the slightest bit of mouthing and if she grabs clothing which she rarely does now

So she is still grabs at clothing despite the yelping which would indicate to me that it hasn't worked fully

When I say rarely, I mean rarely. She is four months old.

Thanks Tommee - another thing to try!  We stopped yelping very early on, as it just got her excited and she would bite more!

The issue isn't so much general mouthing, as she has learned to not do that at home (as she get removed from the room as soon as she does), it's the biting when we are out.  She just grabs whatever is closest (leg, ankle, boot, arm...).  I had the problem again about an hour ago.  She had been running around with some other dogs, and when it was time to leave, I called her, she ran over to me and sank her teeth into my leg.  The only way to stop it is to put her lead on her and stand on it so she can't jump at my leg, but in the process my arm gets eaten.

I am stumped as to how I can fix this without getting my leg eaten (if I ignore her) or my arm eaten (if I put her on 'time out').

I know this is a tricky one, but I am willing to try anything!  I will start with the fist suggestion, but that doesn't help with legs (I can't put my leg in her mouth!)

I wonder how much walking you're doing and if it's a bit much...  A lot of the behaviours you describe can be associated with over tiredness too and your chances of getting her to listen and concentrate are greatly reduced at these times

At 13 weeks it really is all about the experience and socialisation and if you are in a city then sometimes just the walk to and from these places is more than she will need.  Pavement pounding is really hard on her joints.  Remember that it's only 5 minutes on lead exercise per month of life til she's 12 months old.  Don't try to do too much walking too soon, you've plenty of time to build up the exercise gradually and, if she gets silly and overtired, she isn't learning anyway :).   Your options may be limited a bit but look at other ways to get her to your destination.  I used to visit garden centres and plonked my pup in a trolley on his fleece - he used to snog the old people, prune the odd plant, and get a bone shaking ride around the car park to watch the cars!  All great experience and quite tiring enough without the walking. 

With regard to the biting you can appeal to her gundog side and give her something else to do with her mouth.  Carry a couple of soft toys or rags for her so you can swap your legs/jeans for a better alternative.

Have you not taught her a recall yet ? I always teach a recall along with walking to heel & not nipping etc.  I simply call the puppy back to me when I'm sitting down (indoors) or when it's time for food or recreational bones & also when we are at training club, our in the garden. I recall & reward, hold the collar before giving the reward & then letting the puppy go again. This getting them used to being recalled & it not being the end of "playtime", walk etc it reduces the puppy's resistance to going back on lead & hence feeling the need to mouth legs etc ;-)

She's fantastic at recall, and it is never at the end of the walk that she does it, otherwise I would attribute to tiredness, or as you say, her not wanting to go home (she always gets fed after a walk though, so is very keen to go home!), it's always in the middle, and a bit like a toddler tantrum.
I tried the fist with treats in.  she sort of got the hang of it :-)

I tried the fist with treats in.  she sort of got the hang of it

My hands are empty when I make them into fists, I have rewards nearby to give out, my rewards include fruit BTW as my dogs are fed raw :-) unzipping a banana is a great distraction for them LOL

Dunbar - The Bite Stops Here

The more 'mouthy' a puppy is, the more chances there are to train the pup to have a soft mouth.    And a soft mouthed dog is a much safer dog.  Safer for humans and safer for other dogs, as good bite inhibition means that the dog will not bite down hard - even when excited or stressed.

By putting your dog in a time out you have only taught her to stop biting in the house.   She hasn't learned to stop anywhere else (as you've discovered)   and she hasn't learned that humans are fragile, she still bites hard, and when she's older, unless she learns to inhibit the bite, could do a lot of damage.  Strong jaws and teeth are more than a match for human skin.

Have used this method with the Bedlingtons with great success.   Despite their capacity for great excitement,  powerful jaws, large teeth, and lightning quick reactions, we have never even had a nip.