Hi everyone,

In desperate need of outside advice. Our little dude Sidney is from a KC Reg breeder but unfortunately was born with hemivertabrae. This hasn't proved a problem to date and many tests and a day undergoing assessment they confirmed that although it is there, the vertebrae are not affecting his daily life.

Problem is.. Sid is not toilet trained. We have tried everything and of course we understand that this issue is a mistake in the way we have bought him up. We do not believe in any forms of harsh training eg, rubbing noses in his own dirt etc. Our vet has done a urine test and blood test with no issues found. Last week he went and was sedated where they did various tests on his bladder and kidneys with nothing showing. She has put us on Propalin as he does tend to seem like he doesn't know he is peeing. We only started on Tuesday and I am yet to see any difference in fact tonight he has been peeing everywhere and my partner has told me that he hasn't drunk a huge deal. I know a lot of medicines am take time but I have read that most people see a noticeable difference immediately.

My concern is that it is behavioural or even worse, it is his bones. The X-rays showed that the damaged bones were not near his bladder area.

Any thoughts people?

Thanks

How long have you had him? I would treat him as a young pup and go back to basics with him if you have not had him long. The vet has ruled out a lot of possible probs so it could be behavioural.

Thanks for replying! He is 18 months and we have had him from 12 weeks I think. Do you recommend any sprays to eliminate the smell inside that may tempt him to 'go' on the same spot?

One of the best things to use for getting rid of urine smells is biological washing liquid, the stuff you wash your clothes in. It destroys the enzimes that cause the smell. There are various sprays and stain removers but the bio liquid works better. You can use it outside as well to combat smells in the warm weather. Has he been clean in the house at all or have you always had probs with him?

Great - we will give that a shot. He's never been 100% some days good some days bad.
He holds it through the night and he does go outside too. We are consistent with treat and praise when he does go outside but he doesn't seem to be making the association. He doesn't tend to go all at once if you get me, but more walks around whilst peeing a lot of the time and in small puddles at a time.

I think you need to go right back to basics with him, the fact that he has always been a bit hit and miss suggests that he does not quite understand what is acceptable. If he were mine there would be no free roaming around the house, when he gets up you get up with him. Regular trips outside with no excitement as that will just take his mind off toileting. Regular trips outside every hr, after meals and drinks, when he wakes up and when he has been playing. You have to have your eyes on him all the time or he will simply pee wherever he happens to be, just like a puppy would. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a woman with a roughly 4 month old pup who was complaining that even though the patio door was wide open her puppy peed on the carpet, she was most put out when I told her that leaving the door open was just not good enough, the puppy did not know he was supposed to go outside to toilet!

Good advice from Roscoebabe.  I agree with taking pup out, every hour, on the hour.   Just as you would treat an 8 week old puppy.  Always go outside with the dog and always wait until he has performed.  As to going more than once, I've owned loads of dogs, and it's true that the boys have to have several squirts, as opposed to a total emptying of the bladder.  Part of their scenting process to spread it around.  :-)

You do need to be very consistent.  I agree that rubbing his nose in it would be abhorrent.  When you say he goes all night without doing a wee, how long exactly is he left? 

My instant thought was that it may well be to do with his condition. It's not the same thing at all, but I have an elderly dog that currently is having spinal problems and she is starting to get incontinent because of it (first signs were all her legs were getting weak, in particular hindlegs) -she's just losing feeling in various areas and so can't control herself the way she used to be. But interestingly she is better at night than during the day! So I googled a bit and found this article which does say hemivertabrae can cause incontinence: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/hemivertebrae.html  I don't really see why the vet should say it isn't possible just because it isn't near the bladder.

Thanks for your help everyone. I am going to have to go back to basics for sure. I am confused how Sidney now seems to be dripping worse than ever since he started the Propalin. Anyone else had the same problem?

As you've only had him for 12 weeks, did his breeder say that he had this problem when she had him?

Apologies, I may not have been clear. We had him from 12 weeks old, he is now 18 months :)

Could this dripping be anything relating to the fact he has been humping his toy a lot recently? He is neutered but still likes a hump! Hehe

If his problem has got worse on propolin then I would take him back to the vet if he were mine for a chat as to why this could be the case ;-)

Often, pups are better at night and can hold it more as their system slows right down. They are generally not eating and drinking or on the go, producing adrenalin, getting excited etc - I know that your boy is not a "pup" as such but this could be the answer as to why he can go overnight without messing. I would have thought that if it is a medical problem with him, he would still be doing it over night. I could be wrong of course, just trying to think of a logical reason ;-)

The reason I say the above is because my last boy, who is sadly no longer here, had rear end weakness and heart problems, in the last year of his life he became slightly incontinent and wasn't aware that he was dripping and sometimes making small puddles as he stood up, for all of his 10 years he was an exceptionally clean dog but in the last year, he dribbled very regularly and this also happened overnight. Every morning I would have to clean him and his bed up as he had lost control.