my westie is 4 months old he is house trained which is brilliant i think for his age although when i take my kids to school he is in his crate so he wont mess in there.
if i go shopping usually an hour and a half he also goes in his crate with his kong.
the question i want to ask is how old should i let toddies crate door stay open when i go out the worry is will he start messing in the house or will he hold on which he must do when he is in his crate especially at night as he sleeps from about 10;30 pm until about 5am when he starts fidgiting to go out to the toilet.i was thinking starting him off trusting him say about 15 minutes and slowly building this up.
in the summer i will get badgered to go on the kids school trips with them i know i would be gone six hours toddy would be about 8 months so i would not like to keep him in a crate as it wouldn,t be right.
will he be able to hold on that long without going out to do his business.
so when would it be best to slowly wean him from door shut to door open. to freedom of the kitchen dining room and conservatory.
i have read everything on all the posts about for and against crates.
mine has been a godsend for toddy and myself . he has never been in it long than over an hour during the day and at night where his crate is in my room so i can see and hear him.

We put our 13mth Cocker in her crate whenever we go to bed or go out as I can't trust her not to chew things and possibly hurt herself.

I've also found that if I have gone to bed and forgotten to close her pen door she wees and poos in about 4 different places on the lounge floor :( She never does anything in her pen but insists on doing it on my carpet :(

I've got no idea when she'll be able to stay out of her pen, but certainly not for a long time yet :D

Fiona
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thats what i am worried about with my westie pup.
how long do you leave her in her crate for.
its just when the occasion arises of me having to go out for more than an hour or so what to do with him.
i can get my friend to see to him, but i would like to know on average how long i can leave him for.

I've been out for the entire day and left Holly in her crate without any problems at all. Hers is quite big though and she's got plenty of space in it. We leave her with a stuffed kong and a large nylabone and she seems perfectly happy.

As long as it's not all day every day it really doesn't bother them that much - with 3 children under 7 in the house, I think she likes the peace and quiet :D

Fiona
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can i join in ?!. archie is 5 months and i had the same concerns about letting him have freedom when i went out. it really is one of those things that you've got to do. the longest we have left him is 5 hours and he was fine - not a tiddle to be seen (unless he's got a secret place that we haven't discovered !). i was more concerned about him getting hold of things that he shouldn't so i always have the same routine - slippers hidden, electric wires at floor level unplugged, put a biscuit in his bed so that he know's i'm going out and another treat hidden in his box of toys for him to spend time searching for. he isn't allowed in the sitting room when we are out but is ok everywhere else. he spends most of his time in the hall - he drags all his bedding out and moves the doormat !. don't ask me why but it's the same everytime whether it's half an hour or 5. one sweet thing though - once left my slippers on display, he put them side by side by the front door - brought a tear to my eye !. when you get home don't make too much of a fuss as that's when accidents happen with excitement. get your pup outside and then make a fuss. i think the main thing to remember is to keep anything that you don't want chewed out of reach but make sure pup has loads of interesting (but safe) toys. hope it works out well.

thank you for your advice it has helped listening to your experiences.
i to have three kids all under 8 all boys so my westie too enjoys his peice
then again with 3 boys a male puppy and my other half i am seriously out numbered.
i think i will stick to the crate at the moment its just so hard to decide what is best for them isnt it you buy this puppy fall in love and you dont want to stress them or make them sad.
i worry more now than when my kids where babies but this is my first dog i just want to do my very best by him
cheers everyone for your help.

Hi Toddyboss,
When my dog was a pup he was put in the kitchen if we had to leave him or to give him some peace from my toddler, with a baby gate as there was plenty of room to play but he couldn't get hurt (child locks on the cupboard doors)and the floor was easily cleaned. He made very few mistakes right from the start, but we built up leaving him from 5 mins to a few hours as he got older. He let us know that he was ready to be allowed in the rest of the house as he would open the baby gate when we were out and we found that he was clean and dry. Perhaps as your pup gets older this would be a half way measure??

worth thinking about dill i allready have child locks on the kitchen cupboards because of my children and i am sure i could get another stair gate
i allready have one on the stairs so toddy doesnt hurt himself
cheers for the advice again your all great