Maiden bitch, 4th season, 2 yrs old.

Season day 1. 21/06/2013. wormed with Drontal + & Advantage.

30/06/2013. 15 min tie at 7.45pm, Started wheatgerm oil.

09/07/2013. CHV vaccs

20/07/2013. Stopped Wheatgerm.

29/07/2013. Scanned with 3+ pups. Scan machine said due 7th Sep.

31/07/2013. Started Raspberry leaf tabs.

09/08/2013. Started worming with panacur 10%.

12/08/2013. Scanned with 4+ pups.

22/08/2013. 2nd CHV vaccs. 4+ pups felt by vet.

04/09/2013. Day 66. Still no sign of pups?

She has been on and off of her food for last week but has eaten something everyday.
Digging in whelping box every night since Saturday.
Other dogs licking her behind on sat and sun.
Pups still moving.
Still happy to go on daily on lead walk.
Milk came in on Monday this week.

No panting, no shaking/shivering, no discharge, no funny smell, no straining, no contractions, no signs of pain, no unusual behaviour.

My breed isn't known to have problems whelping or needing c sect.

Thanks

That the pups are still active is a good sign. My bitch had her last litter naturally on day 68 from the first mating (which was on day 18 of her season) so clearly she hadn't read the books! Having the vet check her out would be a good idea though.

All sounds fine and normal to me, her due date will depend on when she ovulated not when she was mated - did you progesterone test?

No progesterone tests this time. I will definitely progesterone test in future.

Temp at 9.30am, 99.37f, will check again in an hour. x

10.30am. 99.75f. x

She has just lost quite a bit of cloudy mucous. Which she ate. No colour to it. x

sounds like she has lost her mucous plug which has come away when the cervix starts to dilate, they can still have primary inertia despite the cervix starting to open.

Has a vet done an internal on any of these visits? Unlike humans dogs do not have a set cervix size before they start to deliver, it just has to be big enough to allow a pup of that breed through, with my first litter my girl messed about nesting etc. for 5 days, was 63 days from first mating and 61 days from second mating, my mentor suggested a visit to the vets, as it was 2 days before Xmas I wanted to get things sorted, an internal showed her cervix was 2-3 cms dilated, I requested a scan which showed there was at least 3 pups with strong heart beats, after a very rested night in bed with me she went into labour at 8am the next morning[Xmas eve] and had 3 healthy pups early hours of Xmas morning with no problems at all, as my mentors said a text book whelping.

Keep us posted on progress

No, no internals.

She was sick after eating at around 12pm.

I have made an app at vets at 4.20pm.

x

I'd want t know how the scan determined a date of whelping as 7th September?

It did sound from original posts that she was mated early, keen stud, who'd mate anything remotely willing.  As opposed to the kind who waits for the right day.

The lady i use for scanning is very accurate and has predicted the correct date both times.

They measure the size of foetus.

temps today, is this the drop

9.30 99.37f

10.30 99.75f

11.30 100.47f

1pm 99.57f

2pm 99.77f

http://www.debbiejensen.com/temp_chart.html

have a look here :)

I work in celsius, but I think 99.3 = 37.3?? My girls need to drop to below 37.0 before they start 1st stage labour and then the temperature will rise again before actual whelping.
I take temp every couple of hours once I think it starting to drop - none of them have ever complained :)

Are you counting the from date of her first mating for her due date?
If she was mated before she ovulated (in my breed day 10 would be very early) she could well not be due until the 7th (as per scan) which would explain why you haven't seen a temperature drop, all her other behaviour I would say is normal for a bitch in the last week.

Yes from mating.

I went to vets at 4.20pm today and vet said she wanted to give oxy and my bitch wasn't even dilated!!

I said no and she asked me to come back tomo morn for oxy then if no pups by 4pm tomo then to do c sect.

I am not happy to give my bitch the oxy before she is even in labour let alone dilated or passed a pup.

Is there any other suggestions I should give my vet? I am not happy with her hasty decisions. x

ETA I checked her cervix before vet and was still not dilated, vet also confirmed this but I have checked just now, 10pm, and I would say she is starting to dilate now. x

Ohhh good luck x

Sorry - but I wouldn't be going back to see a vet that had suggested oxy under your circumstances!!

Blood progesterone can be used to determine if delivery is safe/overdue as the levels should drop to below the level I think that bitches ovulate.  The issue is whether they would get results back in time.

Giving Oxy before the bitch has fully dilated can cause the uterus to rupture, so not a wise move at all, and why ti should only be given after at least one pup.

I just don't know what to do for the best! I do not have a gut feeling that my bitch is in any danger, sperm can live for up to week so that would be tomo. She is fine in herself but im also aware that bitches can seem fine in cases of inertia.

Her breeder thinks wait till Friday, stud owner thinks wait till Friday and then reassess situation..

Progesterone levels can be used to determine if you need a c section. progesterone levels fall on run up to labour, Levels of 5ng to 3ng are indicative of start of labour in next 24 hrs, lower than 2ng the bitch should be in labour so if no physical signs this is indicative of inertia and C section indicated. Hope this helps

Edit : if you can't get a same day service on blood progesterone via lab for quantative reading the in house pre mate kits can be used. A level indicating ovulation would equal approx 24 hrs to delivery or a reading equal to LH surge (2ng) or too soon indicates low levels of progesterone and C Section Indicated.

> if you can't get a same day service on blood progesterone via lab for quantative reading the in house pre mate kits can be used. A level indicating ovulation would equal approx 24 hrs to delivery or a reading equal to LH surge (2ng) or too soon indicates low levels of progesterone and C Section Indicated.

That's what I thought.

Why are most vets in UK so poor on reproduction issues and testing, compared it would seem to other countries.

temp today

99.1

98.5

98.46

i think we have 'the drop' x

OOh keep cheking this thread with hope - I hope they're on their way!

Try not to get too hung up with "the drop" , you might miss something vital, go with your gut instinct.

That's looking more promising :) Following the drop I would expect first stage labour to start within 24/36 hours, looks like your scan due date could be right!

just a quick update.

temp has stayed at 98 all day. She hasn't eaten or drank anything, lots of little wee's, no poo's. Had a little panting. Think we will have pups by the morn.

Thanks for everyone's advice and comments. x

Great news :)

Fantastic! I'm sure you already are, but just watch her when she goes out to do those wees - my girl was like that when she had hers, and I reckon it was partly the contractions that were making her thinking she needed a wee, she was in and out all day before having the puppies in the evening. Just make sure she doesn't pass a puppy outside without you noticing! :-)

Must agree here, the constant going for a wee, and trying to poo is the contractions and I have had in recent times to field several puppies born outside, so always go out with them with a towel over my shoulder.

Good luck with whelping x

so exciting! any news?

Another quick update. 3 so far. All doing well. x

Ooh yay!

> I went to vets at 4.20pm today and vet said she wanted to give oxy and my bitch wasn't even dilated!!

   

Wow when are you changing your vet?

Congratulations on 3 pups.  :-)

Excellent, big relief!

> I went to vets at 4.20pm today and vet said she wanted to give oxy and my bitch wasn't even dilated!!

If there is one thing I have learned from being on this forum in the last 3-4 years, and even if I never breed dogs, it's that Oxy shouldn't be given before any are born. And I have enough experience of breeding other species, to understand that would probably apply to them also.

what was the final count?

Hi thanks for all your comments.

The final count was 3. 2 boys and 1 girl. They are gorgeous. Average birth weight for my breed is 8 ounces and they were 10-11 ounces!! I got one red & white and 2 that im not sure if they are black, brown or blue! We will see as they grow. All are doing well. Mum is brilliant with them. Once she got going it was text book.

I will we looking for a new vet and next time I will proges test so we don't have the worry again.

xx

Fantastic!!

Well done mum. Congratulations x

WELL DONE YOU X

Congratulations!