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Topic Dog Boards / General / Castration
- By newyork [gb] Date 01.09.13 07:35 UTC
I have never been a fan of castration but I am looking for studies about how aggression in dogs is affected by castration if there are any. I took y foster dog to the vet on Friday and while there I discussed his reactivity with the vet. Unsurprisingly the vet wanted to castrate him ASAP and said that his rising levels of testosterone would be making any aggression worse.

the rescue group do want him castrated too but I have managed to put them off for a while. However the vet was quite convincing that it would help his aggression. I am not convinced that he is particularly nervous. He doesn't seem worried when out walking. he doesn't back away from people and is generally happy for them to stroke him. but at times he will react to a person walking towards us. Mainly men but sometimes women. He reacts quite angrily. I do try to avoid situations where he will react but it seems whenever I go out with him and where ever I go the whole world seems to appear. :( If I get my hands near his mouth when he is reacting I have felt his teeth on my hand although it doesn't hurt. Incidently he was quite happy at the vets. He wasn't worried about sitting in the waiting room and was fine with the vet going over him. he did react to the dogs in the waiting room but I was able to keep him quiet if I kept his attention on me and feed him treats.

Is there anything like Supralorin but shorter acting that mimics the effect of castration so I can see how it will affect him? I don't want to make his aggression worse but if castration would help it then Iwould be willing to do  it. I know Supralorin is not supposed to be used with sexually immature dogs but surely if a vet is happy to castrate an immature dog then they would be OK with using Supralorin. It is just that it takes so long to start working and lasts for such a long time. I really need a quick answer as to whethe rcastratio n will help this boy or make him worse.
- By Ingrid [gb] Date 01.09.13 08:44 UTC
Vets always seem to think castration is a cure all :(
I presume your foster is a rescue, so without knowing the truth about his past life, (and don't believe everything the previous owners said) it's difficult t know what triggers his problem.
Have you tried some sort of distraction when he does it, treat, noise etc?
I have had 2 aggressive rescues in the past, one didn't like women and was rpone to aggressive bouts, turned out he had a brain imbalance, the other dog aggressive, in who's case I was advised by a behaviorist who I trusted that having him castrated could make the [roblem worse, loss of testerone can cause problems.

- By Dill [gb] Date 01.09.13 09:35 UTC
I can't advise whether castration will help this dog or make him worse.      Personally, I would take the advice of breed experts in this case, they have the knowledge and experience of actual dogs of this breed and nothing can compare with that.

What I can point out, is that the Vet doesn't have to live with the consequences if castration makes the dog worse.

In the same way as they don't have to live with the consequences of coat changes and weight gain, both of which can be a huge problem for some dogs and their owners.
- By Goldmali Date 01.09.13 10:20 UTC
I haven't got time right now but can give you further details later tonight or tomorrow. If needs be I will translate the whole thing. I read an article in the Swedish KC's magazine this week, written by a professor, about castration which gave facts and figures and mentioned studies. The figures were something like 10-20% of male dog to male dog aggression may improve, that's all, and then only if the dog is castrated before sexual maturity.

I think the difference between a vet being happy to castrate a young dog and refusing to use Suprelorin on a dog too young is that in the Suprelorin case they would be going against manufacturers written advice and therefore would leave themselves wide open for legal action should anything go wrong. Plus you could end up with a major problem as sometimes Suprelorin at first makes the dog worse.
- By Tommee Date 01.09.13 11:01 UTC
As suprelorin closely mimics clinical castration, surely if the implant worsens the behaviour so will clinical castration & therefore shold not be considered let alone carried out
- By Jetstone Jewel [ca] Date 01.09.13 11:18 UTC
These might help.  Neither is going to predict how your individual dog will turn out though.  And note:  There were significant differences noted by breed and species.  Generally though, MORE aggression in neutered than in entire of both male and female.

Lots of other fascinating differences between neutered and entire.  For instance neutered dogs are more likely to eat poop?  Wow, how strange.

http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Early%20SN%20and%20Behavior.pdf
Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering on Behavior in Dogs
Deborah L. Duffy, Ph.D., and James A. Serpell, Ph.D., Center for the Interaction of
Animals and Society, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania

http://www.vizslacanada.ca/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf
Behavioral and Physical Effects of Spaying and Neutering Domestic Dogs(Canis familiaris)
Summary of findings detailed in a Masters thesis submitted to and accepted by Hunter College
by Parvene Farhoody in May, 2010.

Sorry, looks like the second is a presentation using the same CBARQ data as the first one.

You can find the CBARQ study for further information on it.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 01.09.13 15:02 UTC
Castration will only cure sexually motivated aggression.

Loss of testosterone can make fearful aggression much worse.
- By Bellamia [it] Date 01.09.13 16:21 UTC
http://www.vizslacanada.ca/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf
Good link here with some graphs to illustrate their findings...it does advise to delay castration  especially in fearful or nervous dogs.
They say..
"Behavioral characteristics of intact male and female dogs were compared with those of four groups of neutered dogs: those neutered at or before 6 months, between 7 and 12 months, between 13 and 18 months, and after 18 months. Our data showed that the behavior of neutered dogs was significantly different from that of intact dogs in ways that contradict the prevailing view. Among the findings, neutered dogs were more aggressive, fearful, excitable, and less trainable than intact dogs."
- By Goldmali Date 01.09.13 18:33 UTC
As suprelorin closely mimics clinical castration, surely if the implant worsens the behaviour so will clinical castration & therefore shold not be considered let alone carried out

You often get a hormone surge after implantation which then settles, so no not the same until a few weeks have passed.
- By Nova Date 01.09.13 18:37 UTC
It depends on the age of the dog, the type of aggression and many other factors but I would look to castration as the last resort before PTS.

Best not to use chemical castration on a dog that is not fully mature.
- By newyork [gb] Date 01.09.13 20:09 UTC
Thanks for the helpful responses everyone. I think I am getting seduced by the idea that a simple operation could turn him into a normal dog. And yet I have seen lots of my clients castrate their dogs on the advice of their vet only for it to have no impact on the problem behaviour :(

Marianne I would appreciate it if you could let me have details of the article you mentioned. I am collating evidence to put to the rescue group to try to get them to delay the castration.

Incidentally he is still very undeveloped in that department. His bits are very small. I presume this means he has not yet hit puberty? Does anyone have any idea if he is likely to get more aggressive once the hormones start rising?
- By Nova Date 01.09.13 21:10 UTC
He will go through a teenage period before settling down to become a gentleman, much like humans really - given the right guidance and help they grow out of the yob stage he will mature although it can be tiresome waiting for them to get there.
- By Bellamia [it] Date 02.09.13 11:01 UTC Edited 02.09.13 11:03 UTC
My new boy lifted his leg outside at seven months...he is now nine months and I can definitely say the hormones  have just kicked in. My pup is 20 kg,going to be about 28.... He is bouncing right now,but lots of exercise keeps him manageable. Ive always had females  so this is a new experience for me. Like you I'm also discovering the latest theories on castration pros and cons....Im determined to keep his jewels if we can,but if we do have to castrate,I  would only consider it after two years.Fight  your corner New York, I bet with the right voice behind you and a lot of printouts from the experts you can win a stay of release to at least let this pup mature and be given a chance to stabilize.
- By Nova Date 02.09.13 21:23 UTC
To be honest if you wait till your boy is fully mature the need or urge to castrate is not there any more, you will have a mature sensible dog.
- By Jetstone Jewel [ca] Date 04.09.13 17:14 UTC
Brainless said, "Castration will only cure sexually motivated aggression."[/tt]

What about the neutered male who is antagonistic to intact males?  We've met our share of these and Oban will not respond to them.  Last weekend we happened to meet one we met first before he was castrated, a big Ridgie.  He was better then, but he was only 11 months old.  Now he is 3 and neutered.  Thank God Oban evaded him and the Ridgie's owner got a hold of his dog.

But in situations like this do you think castration caused the sexually motivated aggression?  Is it sexually motivated aggression?
- By Nova Date 04.09.13 17:53 UTC
Castration can lower confidence and confuse, not in all cases but increase in aggression is not unknown but it is the interference with the balance of hormones that cause the problem after castration nothing to do with sex or anything else that may be part of the dogs nature. Remove any part of a living thing and it will change it you no longer have the animal nature intended, same with pruning a rose, it will never make a mature bush.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 04.09.13 18:50 UTC

> What about the neutered male who is antagonistic to intact males? 


This is often the result of the neutered male having unpleasant frightening encounters with entire males who confused by his scent treat him as a bitch and mount him.
- By DarkStorm [gb] Date 04.09.13 22:25 UTC
I had my fear aggressive dog neutered at 11 months. Worst thing I could've done. Castration will only sort issues that are related to the hormones, fear isn't one of them. A dog aggressive to other entire males but fine with everything else...very probably will help. If in doubt I would try chemical castration, only lasts 6 months and if no improvement you know it wont help.
- By Nova Date 05.09.13 06:02 UTC
In the teenage dog any sort of castration, actual or chemical, will disrupt the hormonal system of the dog and effect his growth to correct maturity so do nothing until the do is fully mature - in most cases the problem will disappear anyway once the dog is allowed to become a rounded adult. People should realise that castration effects the whole dogs growth processes and it best left alone, removing the testis effects the whole dog not just his sex drive so leave things alone until the hormones produced by the testis are not needed to help with the correct growth patten and even then removing them will effect the dog and not always for the best.
Topic Dog Boards / General / Castration

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