I have a 5 month old Irish Terrier puppy, a handsome, joyful little lad, had him from 8 weeks. Also my 8 year old wire fox terrier girlie. I am the world's worst dog trainer - I just don't have much of a feel for it. Fox terrier and I managed to get GCDS Bronze, but she was very hard work and embarrassment at her behaviour eventually made me give up going to classes partway through silver. So I am not about to set the world of dog obedience alight!

I rather hoped to do better second time round and have been trying to use clicker training with puppy,and results are very mixed (my fault, not his). I didn't use clicker with my older girl.

On the plus side, I do have some very nice 'attention' heelwork coming along, something I never managed with my fox terrier. On the minus side, I can't get fast, enthusiastic sits, downs and stands - he does them as if I'm asking him to do them on hot coals - very reluctantly.

At training the other day my trainer suggested I must be over-training, as puppy backs aways, turns his head, yawns etc, when I'm trying to get basic positions (trainer gets them from him, but he also does a bit of the backing off etc for the trainer, though much worse with me). But I only train for five mins or so a couple of times a day. If I try for longer he does the yawning etc and wants to leave. I try to be happy and upbeat while training, don't get annoyed, I ignore mistakes and reward successes. Yet I seem to have done something to turn him off it.

I suppose I see other pups of similar age doing all the things I'm trying to achieve and don't see where I'm going wrong! I was so hoping to try Rally with this laddie, but beginning to think there is no hope if I can't get basic positions by five months old.

I probably just need to hear that I should indeed just slow up and enjoy his puppyhood. Or that I'm expecting too much too soon. Any ideas for trying to make things more fun for him would be good. I use homemade liver or sausage cake and he is very food motivated. Haven't managed to get him keen on toys as a training reward.

Claire

A problem can be that some breeds are just not the 'Eager to please You' type but the 'Eager to Please themselves' type.

Finding what makes your dog tick, and floats their particular boat is what will help.

Unfortunately many trainers only eager train (to any standard) the typical eager to work for you breeds.

A book that you may find useful is, 'So Your Dogs Not Lassie' and if not useful will at least show you in a humorous fashion what the independent breeds can do, and how to motivate them.

Barbara,

Thanks for the book suggestion, it isn't one I'd seen, so I'll get hold of a copy. I know that terrier independance (what I like about them) is not ideally suited to obedience work - but I have a feeling that a better trainer than me would be able to bring him along in a way that I don't seem able to.  Not sure why it is important to me, but it is!

A couple of rabbits, some woodpigeons, mice, rats and various sizes of fly would be good motivators, but would all have to be live! The mighty hunter killed a dragonfly yesterday, poor thing. He is a great fan of squeaky toys but they don't seem to float his boat when training. I am trying to use them though.

Claire

If nothing else the style of writing will have you saying, welcome to my world.

Does he have one particular toy that he really likes above all others? If so keep it just for use when training and put it away afterwards and don't bring it out until the next session. I do this with the reward toy I use for agility with one of my dogs and it has really upped his focus. My first agility dog doesn't really "do" toys but is a real foodie so I use high value food rewards for training that he doesn't get anywhere else - I use small dried fish very smelly but oh so good for getting his attention and rewarding the behaviours I want.

I don't have any useful advice for you but wanted you to know that you are not alone.  In fact, you are doing much better than me!

I have Chows and stubborn doesn't even cover it.  My older boy I know is very intelligent, crafty as a fox, but any training request from me is met with a look of total incredulity.  He actually looks offended and does everything in slow motion with a big sigh and a rolling of the eyes.  My younger boy just plays dumb, looks at me with a ,'do I know you? ' expression.

When my old boy and his litter brother now deceased were about 6 months old, I went and bought a rather expensive dog training book.  I came home, left it on the couch whilst I popped to the loo.  By the time I came back half the book had been eaten and the rest was shredded all over my lounge!  It was the only book they ever touched.

It sounds like you are making good progress with a difficult breed, I'm sure it will pay off in the end.

Hi wireyfox

Another book you might enjoy is 'When Pigs Fly - Training Success with Impossible Dogs' by Jane Killion.

It's well written with lots of clear suggestions to help with training (including clicker methods) and is also often amusing!  The author's breed is bull terriers and she writes from heartfelt experience!  Easily available on Amazon.  I have so-called 'easy to train' breeds but I still found this book helpful and thought-provoking.

Your lad is still a baby and it sounds like you are doing well with him in lots of ways.  Good Luck!

Lunamoona - LOL re. the "look" of astonishment at being asked to do anything. I got that this morning when I asked him to sit before he got his breakfast.. backed off four paces, yawned, shuffled, sloowly sat down. Trainer is pretty sure he understands what is being asked but that he doesn't get why it is being asked! Thank you for the encouragement!

Harley - yes, the toys.. You're right, I need to confiscate some favourite ones for use only with me when training. I know I should have done this already, but feel so mean doing it! I'm going to force myself to sort them out today - he has far too many toys anyway.

Ooh that book looks really good too - thanks Blay. I just read the first few pages on Amazon and ordered it. I have to keep reminding myself that the little beggar is still a baby. Pretty much full size now - they grow so fast, it's hard to adjust. He (and I) just worked out he can counter surf - arghh! I suppose it will make me tidy the kitchen counters.

I have an Irish, aged seven, and I can so relate to the "why am doing this?" expression.  Mine is the most gorgeous loving dog, but it did take a long time to get training to the point where I was comfortable.  And she still will suddenly decide to run in the opposite direction when recalled.  Or just stand there staring when asked to do something - "what?  what on earth are you asking?  really?  you want me to do WHAT?" .  But I just love the independent mind and huge curiosity she has about everything going on around her.  All I can say is, keep persevering - I clicker trained mine, and we still go to training classes (for fun), and we both love it. 

Have fun with your Irish!

Despite having a Lab, supposedly so easy to train the saying goes if you can't train one you can't train anything, I made good use of the Pigs Fly book.   Also Leslie McDevitt's "Control Unleashed."

At a mere 5 months (I didn't discover the books till after he was 2 years) I found a vacation worked wonders.  No training, other than needed for basic household manners, like sitting to have his leash put on.  Just having fun together seemed to rejuvenate both of us.

Another idea to consider is the learning theory that has it something learned goes into short term memory till it becomes fully understood and learned whereupon it moves to long term memory.  According to this theory whilst in transit from short term to long term memory, around 5 weeks into learning, the behaviour is temporarily unavailable and the student, human or dog, really does not recall what SIT, or whatever,is.  This theory was part of my courses for teaching adult students and darned if Oban's puppy trainer didn't say the very same thing.  Does that seem to fit with your observation?  Several of our doggy classmate owners really identified.  And of course the time period being 5 weeks is not chipped in stone.

Lovely to hear from another Irish Terrier owner. Mine is also very loving, and follows me around constantly (my wire fox doesn't, and never has, unless she thinks I have food). He is also very jealous of my wire fox bitch and hates to see her get attention, so I have to be careful to remain very fair, or he would push her away from me all the time. I'm trying to use a clicker, but don't have very good reactions no matter how much I practice and frequently miss things. Having said that, it is solely through the clicker that we have our nice bits of heelwork. I was at the weekly training class last night - I sometimes think I only go for the embarrassment factor (to me)! But that hairy face is irresistible! (And yes, some things when pretty well!)

Claire

The info about learning theory is really interesting Jetstone Jewel. There was a period of time where I thought he had "got it" (ie the basics - sit, down, stand), and then it all fell apart. After last night's class, where I was getting some results again (not many though - he was very distracted by the other dogs much of the time), I wonder if this transfer is indeed what is happening. I know we have not generalised the basic behaviours enough yet, and I need to work on that more, because I frequently get the "are you totally mad, this is no place for a sit?" look when I ask him to sit while out walking.

He's curled up next to me, nose to tail, as I type this, having just shredded yet another toilet roll. Unfortunately I need to be trained to shut bathroom doors, but I have a hard job remembering. Here's hoping I will eventually manage to get that behaviour into my permanent memory!

Unfortunately I need to be trained to shut bathroom doors, but I have a hard job remembering. Here's hoping I will eventually manage to get that behaviour into my permanent memory!

LOL.  :)

You might find this helpful [url=].   http://www.puppypeaks.com/fe/53708-hope-in-dog-training?r=y   [/url]
A free resource by Trainer Susan Garrett, discussing how to over come training challenges whilst staying positive, the first instalment is really just an introduction, the next two instalments, being released over the coming week, show how to cope when things go wrong.
You have to sign up to receive the video's but it's completely free.

Having owned a Tibetan Mastiff, I know only too well that " what ?me ? , I think your confusing me with a dog " reaction, good luck :)