This is my first post here - I hope you can help with our dog-baby situation which is getting stressful...

We have an 11 year old female Parson Terrier. She's a rescue dog, but my partner has had her for 8+ years and I've lived with them both for 7 years. By and large the dog is a good natured, happy dog, but she has a few quirks. The postman is her arch nemesis, she gets very excited when guests come to the house, and she can be a bit aggressive towards other dogs when out walking (stalking, lunging, barking etc). Most guest coming round are equally excited to see her, so we kind of let the yipping and jumping happen, but I am aware that this is probably undesirable behaviour. When walking we've learnt to just avoid situations where she may come into close contact with other dogs. So basically over the years we've just lived with her quirks rather than trying to address them, as they've not been a big deal.

However, we've just had a baby and bought this new little crying thing into the house. We did a few things before-hand to condition the dog, but probably not enough - we put the moses basket up before the baby was born, brought baby clothes home from the hospital for her to sniff, and when the baby came home, we introduced everyone in a calm neutral environment (on a small walk). Initially everything went quite well for a few days, we could all be in the same room, sit around quietly, I could sit on the couch with the baby and the dog next to me asleep and everyone was happy.

We noticed that two things triggered bad behaviour: when guests come into the house to see the baby the dog gets very anxious, almost it seems a little protective - one day she actually snapped at the midwife; also when the baby cries (which happens quite a lot) all hell brakes loose with a very anxious dog that whines and whines building up to a crescendo of barking and yapping. This is quite stressful, and the dog needs to be removed from the room as it clearly is getting worked up to a dangerous state.

We decided that we'd get a behaviourist out, and after phoning a few up we get a Dog Listener (Amichien Bonding) out. My partner had read Jan Fennel's book, and she has a friend who has had success with the technique. I was a bit more ignorant on different techniques but was willing to give it a go as my partner supported it. The behavourist himself was a perfectly decent and honest guy, but I began to have a few doubts when he was with us. I asked him about alternative techniques and he was very dismissive of anything but Amichien Bonding. Also, I asked what we should do if we did everything he said and it still didn't work and was told he couldn't believe that would happen. When the report from the consultation came through, it was a bit of a copy-and-paste job (another dog's name was even in it in parts), with a few sentences chucked in here and there to make it unique to the discussion in our consultation. I wasn't overly impressed and I just felt this was a very rigid, one-size fits all approach, and took no consideration of the specific issues or specific dog.

Anyway, we gave it a go. We've tried isolation on a couple of days. The first day I abandoned it quite quickly as I felt she was getting worked up into a more dangerous state. But then we gave it a full proper go yesterday, she was permanently on the lead, food taken away if she didn't eat (which she didn't), no walks outside, into isolation if she played up. She ended up spending the entire day in isolation. If we let her out of isolation, it wasn't because she'd been quiet for 10 minutes and we were rewarding her for that, it was because she'd been quiet for 10 minutes and we thought we better get her out quickly before she started up again. The result was a far more anxious and confused dog, and I felt like we were punishing her with isolation for being anxious and confused. As I lay in bed last night wondering how either of us were going to get any sleep in-between a constantly barking dog and a baby that needs feeding every few hours, I read a bit online about Amichien Bonding. I discovered it has quite a few detractors and the science behind it is questionable to say the least. I decided there and then that I would not proceed with it any more. I let the dog out of isolation, she was panting, wide-eyed, and licked her paws constantly for about an hour. She was clearly very stressed and confused from what we'd put her through that day.

I know the behaviourist will say we didn't try hard enough, and he's right, but I know our dog better than anyone, and on a purely intuitive level, I felt what we were doing was causing more harm than good. The dog is now ten times worse than a few days ago. We can't all be in the same room together any more, even when the baby is calm and quiet, the dog is anxious and wanting to check all the time. We've basically gone backwards. This is stressful for me, but it's much more stressful for my partner. There have been tears and talk of the dog being given away. We need help.

I'd like to know from fellow dog owners and behaviourists if I've done the right thing in abandoning Amichien Bonding so quickly, or if that in itself may have made the situation worse. I'd also like to know if there are any suggestions and advice we can use to restore a bit of peace to the house, and to try and make some changes that positively ease the tension for everyone, dog, baby and parents.

Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy spiel, and thanks for any help you can offer.

I think pretty much everyone on this forum would agree to stay clear of the Jan Fennell methods and that your instincts are right. Now personally, if it was my dog and my baby (I have had 3 children and had several dogs each time one was born -but never had a problem) I would want to go to a really good behaviourist (doubtful if I would call one of the Dog Listener crowds a behaviourist). Some only work on referral from your vet. A good start would be if you checked out the Association of Pet Dog Trainers and tried to find somebody via them . If you can tell us the general area you live in maybe somebody here has a personal recommendation as well, if we're lucky. :) http://www.apdt.co.uk/

Thanks, we're south Gloucestershire / Cotswolds way.

Hi I am near you I would try Julie or Gwen

http://www.peteducationtrust.com/dog-behaviourists/

I think probably the worst thing you can do is change the dogs routine, and I know this is very hard when you have a new baby to care for as everyones routine goes out the window !

Its no earthly use trying to change the dogs behaviour now, she is 11 and her quirks have become habit

The best thing you can do is to re-inforce good behaviour around the baby    So......baby means treats ...baby means walk....baby means calm....baby is good

Its a very anxious time for new parents without a dog .....but I found the best way was to be as normal as possible

So the dog is walked at the same time...may mean taking baby and dog which is perfect...baby means walk

Its fed at the same time.....

Its not shut away but instead of just sitting there with baby and screaming dog  ....do some thing pro-active with the dog....play a game, give treats when she is quiet , if one of you is dealing with baby then the other distract the dog with nice things
When you are feeding baby have a few treats with you too....so feeding baby means nice things for dog as long as she is quiet

She is picking up on your stress

If you know someone is coming to the house such as midwife , then put her in another room way before they arrive with a treat or bone and then let her in when the visitor is about to leave...that way she wont have to deal with a visitor arriving .   Give her treats if she behaves nicely  but dont make a big thing of it....if she isnt interested then let her come round in her own time ....forcing her to do anything will just make her stressed 

Dont try to force her to do anything , she will get used to the new arrival eventually but its all new to her too.

Just make sure ABOVE ALL ELSE that baby is safe and never alone with the dog, even when it all calms down . If you need the toilet....take the dog with you....if you need a brew...take the dog with you .....rather than take the baby everytime ...take the dog    Baby will be fine for a few minutes AS LONG AS THE DOG GOES WITH YOU !

My dog never really loved my daughter but she loved the walks and extra food she got around the baby ....did I leave them together ever NO

A visit to the Vet for a  DAP Diffuser may help to calm her in the initial adjustment days

Thanks jayp that's really helpful. I have been trying some of this today after reading similar advice elsewhere. For most of the day we couldn't get everyone in the same room without it all kicking off, but eventually when the dog was calm I managed to get us all sat down together. I made sure there were treats for the dog and I had a little play with her. This feels like progress compared to where we were this morning.

The problem we have when the baby cries is quite tricky. The dog just gets way too interested, pants excessively and circles your feet like a shark looking up at the baby. I'm not sure if she is concerned in a "I must look after the crying baby" way, or if she is actually being aggressive. She basically looks like she will jump up any moment (and sometimes does), and often starts barking incessantly. At this point she has a one track mind, even if there's two of us on the scene, there is nothing the non-baby holder can do to distract the dog, even with toys and treats. The only thing possible is to pick her up and shut her out of the room.

This then leads to the next problem... she can't stand being on her own when people are in another room. So she gets more agitated, which means when we calm the crying baby down, we still have an anxious dog who we're going to struggle letting back into the room without her going straight over to bother the baby again. It's a vicious loop.

Is there anything we can do to get her used to the baby crying (she's going to have to), or ways to distract her without picking her up and forcibly removing her? Or is it just a case of capitalising on those rare well-behaved moments, dishing out the treats and giving attention at these points?

Just reading through, it looks as though your dog is food-orientated (good) - have you thought of trying some clicker training?

If you haven't heard of this (and for the benefit of anyone else reading the thread who hasn't) it involves pairing the sound of the clicker with a reward (treat) so the dog knows that every time it hears the click, something good is going to happen. In this way you can "capture" any good behaviour as the dog will be more likely to do it again (Dogs do whatever works!).

It's also good for general training, and can be used to teach tricks. Terriers are usually very bright and pick up this kind of thing quickly and easily, so using the clicker you might be able to train her to stay in her bed when people are around; to eventually ignore the baby crying; to settle on command; and believe it or not tricks can be very useful distractions. Running through a few tricks (or think of them as a training repertoire) when dogs are stressed can distract them and help to calm them as they're doing something they know, and if they really enjoy the clicker training (most do!) then the feel-good brain chemicals kick in. [They don't have to be tricks, if you have trained Sit, Stand, Down, Roll Over etc with the clicker then repeating those is enough if the dog is keen to work for a treat.].

It's also a useful marker of stress, because a stressed dog won't respond well, so when your clicker trained dog is not keen to repeat moves he or she will gladly do in other places or circumstances, you know for sure s/he is anxious or not entirely comfortable in that situation, and you can then find his/her comfort zone where s/he WILL respond, aiming to gradually build up more tolerance to the stressor.

Worth a thought? Apologies if you're already training this way! :)

Okay....we are getting somewhere..........the panting is anxiety .....its not aggression    The way to deal with anxiety and I know because I have it LOL   is that once a thing, event, noise, what ever is dealt with and becomes "normal" the anxiety just vanishes.

So the very best thing to do is distract WITH the baby....you must distract in some way that is good for dog....shutting her out may seem the only fix but that isnt going to help....so we must distract with something good.   Now anxiety produces a huge adrenaline rush ...its fight or flight  and the dog dosnt know how to deal with it ...so she pants , runs around, gets stressed etc .....so she needs to use that adrenaline rush .....she wants to run away or fight , somehow her body is telling her to ACT.   So you need to act for her, food wont work as the adrenaline rush gives her body signals, quite normal , that food isnt on the agenda...the fight or flight rush is a very basic , non reasoning reaction that she needs to deal with and the body is telling her ......panic ....dont eat, eliminate bodily fluids, one part of the brain actually switches off ( the learning part) and the primitive part takes over, dogs cant learn when they are stressed.
So we need to use those stress hormones ....she wants to run or do something ......so distraction would be a walk....that way she is doing what her hormones are wanting her to do ACTION   .....the action will be taking the baby out with her .....in your arms, in a pram, in the car ....dosnt matter ....what matters is action
She will use up the stress hormones in exercise

Now you can also record the baby crying and play it when all is calm and maybe baby is asleep.....its all a case of convincing her that crying sounds are normal....nothing happens...no-one gets stressed , no-one gets shut out....no-one stares at her and stresses about her , infact its all normal
If you think she is getting too stressed and struggling to cope .....pick baby up , call her and go in the garden ....walk around calmly ...chuck her the odd treat ....be normal

Sometimes and this is very important.......focusing on the dog produces more stress.....we all know if you have a nervous dog and you keep looking at it and saying Oh its ok , dont be scared....it makes it worse . The dog dosnt want attention focussed on it ....that induces stress . You try to make it come to you for a treat NO it makes it worse. The best thing is no eye contact....no focus ....leave the dog to come to you. I always get someone to sit by me with a confident dog and feed it......the nervy one will sit and watch and when no-one is looking will sneak over for a treat.....make eye contact and it will  retreat.

So if you are going upstairs with baby....call her to come....if she dosnt want to then fine....leave her .   Go out into garden.....call her to come ...she may not but ont force her just go on your own....and if she does come....dont make a big issue out of it ....its NORMAL and needs to be for her ......so just say casually oh hello are you coming too and be NORMAL
She will get used to it all but ACTION is what she needs

I do so feel for you and I know a new baby is terrifying in some ways , its all new to you and im sure your dog not reacting well is adding to the fraughtness of it all .....but she will get used to it and once it becomes NORMAL ...she will be fine    But sitting around watching it happen isnt going to do it .....you wont feel like it im 100% sure but do it

Love and best wishes ....and huge congrats on your new baby.....it will be OK honest xxxxx

> Sometimes and this is very important.......focusing on the dog produces more stress.....we all know if you have a nervous dog and you keep looking at it and saying Oh its ok , dont be scared....it makes it worse . The dog dosnt want attention focussed on it ....that induces stress . You try to make it come to you for a treat NO it makes it worse. The best thing is no eye contact....no focus ....leave the dog to come to you. I always get someone to sit by me with a confident dog and feed it......the nervy one will sit and watch and when no-one is looking will sneak over for a treat.....make eye contact and it will  retreat.

I have to respectfully disagree here.
At the root of almost all anxiety lies fear... Fear is an emotion, and you cannot reinforce emotion. You can reinforce behaviours, but not emotions.
So to ignore a dog that is anxious and fearful in some way is reinforcing its belief that there is something to be fearful or anxious about, and allowing it to practice the behaviour it has already learned.

Comforting a fearful dog not only changes its behaviour, but its fearful state of mind, and offers an alternative behaviour. Case in point, I have a highly thunder phobic dog. this is not normally an issue as we rarely have storms here and they are of short duration. but we had the Supercell storm from hell last week (apocalyptic!) - it lasted for two hours from the first rumble to the last, and was like nothing I've seen or heard in between - and the whole time she was panting, circling, stressed to heck - so stressed in fact that she was given tranquillisers and they had no effect at all, she was just lightyears over threshold.

What she did want was reassurance, touch, contact and when she was given this, she calmed. Her fear is so deeply embedded that she behaved the same today when we had heavy rain (no thunder) so rather than letting her practice her pacing and panting, she actively sought out comfort and reassurance from her human beings, and spent a reasonably comfortable time of it instead of winding herself up into a permanent panic.

>Comforting a fearful dog not only changes its behaviour, but its fearful state of mind, and offers an alternative behaviour.

That is totally contradictory to anything I've ever read or been taught or experienced. Dogs don't 'comfort', they reward, and see what we mean as rassurance as reward, which reinforces the fearful behaviour. We have fearful dogs in the surgery at work, and they're expressing their fear with growls. When the owners 'reassure' them they are n fact encouraging the growls and snarls because they're using the very words "Good dog, good dog" that the dog has learned mean praise for the correct action.

There's been some recent studies... yes you can reward behaviour so you need to choose which, but there is nothing wrong with comforting a frightened dog....

Definitely don't reward aggressive behaviour, but stress and anxiety can be reduced by comfort.

As long as you're not inadvertently rewarding the fearful behaviour.

> As long as you're not inadvertently rewarding the fearful behaviour.

I completely agree, which is why I posted above.

Ignoring a highly stressed dog to continue its panting and circling is tacitly reinforcing that, as the dog has no other choices and doesn't know any different. If you offer an alternative, such as coming to the owner, getting comfort and physical contact, and calming down and feeling more secure as a result, then the dog can choose that instead if it wishes.

Dogs do what works for them, but if they aren't offered any alternatives they will just carry on doing whatever they already know; if they are left to it and never offered anything else then they will just do that.

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/you-cant-reinforce-fear-dogs-and-thunderstorms

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/reinforcing-fear-ii-thunder-phobia-iii

>If you offer an alternative, such as coming to the owner, getting comfort and physical contact, and calming down and feeling more secure as a result, then the dog can choose that instead if it wishes.

That's fine as long as the dog's not used to having physical contact and cuddles as a 'reward' at other times when it isn't stressed (on the sofa watching TV in the evening, for instance).

>Dogs do what works for them, but if they aren't offered any alternatives they will just carry on doing whatever they already know;

By all means make alternatives available - hiding away in a dark place, or putting on a lead to control the pacing and circling and then verbally try to break through the fear doing simple obedience that the dog knows; if you can get it to 'sit' on command, for instance, you can then reward that correct behaviour.

Trust me, having had a dog who would quiver and shake when he heard heavy rain (associated in his mind with thunder), and try to dig through brick walls during thunder or fireworks, I do know what I'm talking about! ;-)

It sounds like your dog is picking up your stress and is associating that stress with the baby. My dogs were very excited when I bought my firstborn home, very curious. Every time he cried they would all charge over, whining and wagging their tails with concern but a bit anxious as they didn't really know what was going on.  It only took a couple of weeks for the novelty to wear off and when number 2 came home he barely got a sniff of interest.

I always made sure my dogs never felt jealous or pushed out and bought this very useful pen

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BabyDan-Babyden-White-Playpen-Playmat/dp/B000KGAHHU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1375000086&sr=8-3&keywords=baby+pen

It comes apart so you can use it as a fence and will hold rigid in any position.  I have mine in a fence across my living room so the dogs can sit close to me and be part of family life without being in the babies face and be safe from my toddler's constant attention.  Make a nice little bed for her on the other side of the fence,  have some good chew toys as chewing reduces anxiety and try the DAP diffuser as previously mentioned.  Once you are no longer stressed about the dog coming up to the baby then her stress should calm down too. Of course don't rely on the fence to keep them separate when you are out of the  room if your dog is a jumper.

Good luck and congratulations on your new family member.

Thanks everyone for continuing to contribute - this is helpful :)

Jayp - the way you describe this anxiety as a kind of adrenaline rush, triggering a fight or flight response, makes a lot of sense. This is, I think, exactly what is happening - she becomes completely focussed on the baby and there is no getting through to her and telling her otherwise. I understand that shutting her away in another room is making the situation worse as she'll just bark, scratch at doors, and go crazy to get back in to where we and the baby are. However, this is a tricky balance we're trying to strike.

I can see that what we really need to do is reinforce that the baby is good and the baby is normal, and to do this the dog needs to be exposed to the baby in a calm happy setting, as much as possible. At the same time, the baby's safety must come first, and I feel we're treading a very thin line. It is possible to get everyone in the room and to get the dog settled and calm, but this seems to be getting harder and harder. More often than not, the dog is entering this crazed state where she is focused on just getting at the baby - she'll jump on the sofa from all angles, so you push her off, this doesn't help her state, so you enter this downward spiral where you just have to get her out of the room before anything happens. What she would do with the baby I'm not sure. She could easily scratch the baby with her over exuberance, but I'm not at all convinced she wouldn't grab the baby with her mouth... so I'm sure you can see - at this point the dog needs to get out of the room.

What's really disappointing is the situation has got worse. When we first bought the baby home we could all sit in the living room together, and everything was calm. The dog only really started getting anxious when the baby woke up and cried, but even then we didn't necessarily need to get her out of the room - it was possible to calm the situation and get the dog in her bed. Now though, we struggle to all sit in the same room together - whether the baby is crying or not - all too often she's crossing that red line and from a safety point of view, she has to be put in a separate room. I don't know why the situation started going downhill, but it was starting to deteriorate before we got the dog listener chap out, then he came along and made the situation 10 times worse. I'm sure what lunamoona says about the dog picking up on our stress is absolutely right, but we've somehow ended up in a scenario where we can't start from a calm and stressless position - we have to try and create calmness through distracting the dog with treats etc.

So baring in mind how desperate this has got, can I ask how everyone feels about the use of medication on the dog? If you'd asked me a week ago I would have been dead against it, but now I'm changing my position on that. I understand medication shouldn't be seen as a solution on it's own, but I'm prepared to put the time and money into behaviour therapy and training too. I know this is a decision for a vet to make, but just wondered if anyone had strong views on medication.

Finally, regarding the conversation on inadvertently reinforcing bad behaviour, I'm a little bit confused by this as some of the opinions seem contradictory. I should point out that our dog also is fearful of thunder/fireworks, but her reaction with these things is very different. When it thunders, she is visibly very scared, she'll cower under our legs, shake quiet a lot, and may start panting after a while. We will comfort her when she's like this. With the baby, it's more like a kind of mania - she's just hyper, panting excessively, and very active, wanting to get to wherever the baby is.

What I've been trying to do is call her over, get her to sit. If she sits I'll give her a treat. She'll then run back to the baby so I'll call her again. This time I'll get her to sit and wait 5 seconds before giving her a treat. I repeat this and increase the wait time before she gets a treat. If I'm lucky, she may lay down at my feet and calm down, at which point she'll just settle. Can I be sure that I'm not reinforcing the mania and the anxiety by giving treats like this?

Since my last post here a few things have happened:

* We've been to the vet who gave us Zilkene and Diazepam. She's been having the Zilkene twice a day. We haven't used the Diazepam yet, although we plan to give it a go. We've also got a DAP diffuser on the go.
* We saw another behaviourist - this time a vet-recommended APDT certified behaviourist. This was more useful than the previous disaster, and we have some useful tips for training her to stay in her bed, although I remain sceptical of the emphasis on status reduction stuff (oooh you let her walk through doors before you, you've had this coming).
* As per lunamoona's idea, I invested in baby gates and fences. The house is now a baby-gate fort knox, and there is a new demarkation fence cutting through our living room.
* Our dog went on a little holiday to my parents for a week so we could have a break. She came back just as bad as before, but at least we had a breather.

The situation is still pretty desperate. My interpretation of what's happening is this (and frankly, who really knows what's going on in those little doggy heads): initially when we brought the baby home the dog was just too interested in this new thing that made strange sounds, and that over-exuberance is what initially was causing bad behaviour (jumping up, barking etc). As the weeks have passed, the dog has found itself locked out of areas of the house, new rules put in place, a loss of previous privileges, and lots of attention going to this new baby thing. What was previously just over-exuberance, has slowly turned into actual jealously and resentment, this has caused an increase in stress in the dog, causing an increase stress in us, and it's a downward spiral.

I remain optimistic that we can battle through, carry on the training, reinforcing good behaviour, and that eventually she'll accept the baby as normal, and we'll reach a point where the stress and tension reduces on all sides. My partner however, who has given birth six weeks ago so is understandably a little hormonal, I think has given up and wants to rehome the dog. She is emotional and as she's breast-feeding I'm worried this may evolve into post-natal depression or other health problems for her and the baby. I feel like I'm scraping the barrel and running out of ideas.

I made a video of the dog when she's stressed. Please have a look and tell me what you think (it's 7 minutes long - don't feel the need to watch it all!):
http://youtu.be/sXu4CTHuxiQ

She's in that state because the baby is in the room (asleep on mum). If she wasn't in the bed she'd be at the fence doing the same, probably barking. We keep the lead on her and move her to her bed, if she gets out we put her back. If she is quiet and settles, we reward her and give her treats. This does work, she will settle eventually, but it's hard work. If the baby starts crying the dog starts off again. Also, if we move with the baby to another room or even just pick the baby up to bounce her on our shoulder or something, the dog gets stressed again.

So I guess I'm just looking for opinions from people that really understand dogs: does that look like a dog that is just fundamentally stressed by the presence of the baby? Is this worth persevering with or is rehoming a better option? I'd be devastated to lose the dog and I'm willing to put anything in to keeping her, I've even offered to rent an office I can work from and take the dog with me so my partner can be at home with the baby on their own all day, but I need to know the situation is one that can improve.

she looks scared of the baby to me - I think if the postman is her arch enemy she probably isnt overly sure that this small human that cries and causes stress isnt trying to kill her humans ! poor thing , its hard with a baby - but im sure a few extra walks to tire her out will help somewhat. I wouldnt leave her alone with the baby- but have they met at all in close quarters?

> have they met at all in close quarters?

When we first brought the baby home, I have a photo of me sat in a chair, the baby asleep in my arms, the dog asleep on my lap - all as peaceful as could be. It would be impossible to repeat that as things are now.

My partner is more of a worrier than me, so is very nervous about letting the dog too close to the baby, which doesn't help. I'm a bit more trusting, and the other day did pick a calm moment to take the baby over to the dog and sit on the floor. I let the dog sniff and lick the baby's legs - she tried to lick the face which I didn't allow. Like I say, I'm more trusting of the dog, but even I felt it was a very fine line which the dog was close to crossing over. I do think we need to do more of this though.

I've just re read your opening post and I wonder if the dog is not so much jealous as cant figure out the withdrawal of her best friend. Looking at your video she seems unhappy that she cannot be with your partner and doesn't understand why. Perhaps your partner has mentally withdrawn from the dog, so even when your partner makes a fuss of the dog, her mind isn't there and the dog sences this. The whining and the staring sounded as if she was feeling deprived of your partners attention which has now switched to the baby. Just a thought.

> Perhaps your partner has mentally withdrawn from the dog, so even when your partner makes a fuss of the dog, her mind isn't there and the dog sences this.

Yes, I think that's partly right. And so sad. Also though, the dog does the same whining when I'm the one with the baby and my partner is trying to fuss the dog and keep it calm. So I don't think it's the full picture.

I think my partner does need to spend more time with the dog and reassure her that she's still the favourite dog in the house, but there is still an issue with the baby - the dog is scared or worried by the baby in some way.

Ive watched the video and I feel sad, sad for you and your partner who must be so upset too .....a new baby is just so emotionally draining, she will be anxious anyway even if the dog wasnt an issue . New babies take all your time and energy and breastfeeding is a trial even when you feel relaxed .

So....I dont think the bed thing is helping much ....I also think you arent reading her body language well enough, I saw her relax a few times and she had no reward to show her thats what you want.   Its not about rewarding her when she finally settles ....its more about rewarding the INSTANT her body language changes . Thats hard and challenging

I understand COMPLETELY your partners reluctance to trust the dog.....she isnt trustworthy at the moment , she is in a state of high anxiety . She dosnt need to sniff the baby or be forced to confront her fears ....she needs to be able to come with you wherever you go WITH the baby . She must be on a lead , YOU must be incharge of her and allow your partner to be with the baby ....so if she takes her upstairs you need to go too...with the dog on a lead . If she baths her , allow the dog to be involved BUT always always on a lead . The most important thing is WALKS .....she needs to accept baby as part of her pack ....so you all go for a walk...you all go in the garden ...you all do it together and if you want to keep the dog then its all up to you to put the effort in.   

All this make her stay in her bed is new to her...she dosnt understand why this is happening ....its too much for her to cope with.....change to routine is bad, normal is good

Is she eating Ok ?   where does she sleep ?  Is she sleeping Ok ?

Also whats the dogs history ?   Is she prey driven ?   Will she hunt ?  Has she chased cats, rabbits , squirrels, how is she with other dogs ?   This all indicates her prey drive , is it strong or not ?

I will share with you my own recent experience ....I have 3 whippets, 2 dogs 1 bitch....my two dogs are highly prey driven....they will kill rabbits, cats, anything that squeaks, runs

My daughter has a new baby girl .......she brought her round yesterday just a month old. My dogs ignored her in the pram UNTIL SHE CRIED ....then I have to say I wasnt happy at all with the reaction from the two dogs ....they became predatory , highly excited , tried to get in the pram , if the baby was mine I would take them for lots of walks together etc as ive suggested to you ....but my dogs are oldish 10 and 11 and they wont see the baby enough for her to become part of their pack ...so I will ask my daughter not to bring her round until she is older or the dogs will have to be shut away while she is here. Now thats easy for me as it will be once a week or so ....wont work for you

Sometimes things just wont work....they wont work for the dog and they wont work for you .......so my advice would be .....dont try for too long.....dont risk your baby ....dont risk your relationship with your partner or your baby.   Dont stress your dog for too long ......be prepared to find her a new home. She deserves the best too and if her life is going to be turned upside down and result in her being anxious and unhappy for a long time.....then a new home is better for her too

Bear in mind it will take your partner some time to be settled with your baby and feel relaxed herself , get in a routine and feel normal again ...... so all I can say is be kind to each other ....be kind to your dog , and if this means a new home...dont let her go until you have found one as good as your own ...then it may be the best thing for all of you .

She would probably suit an older couple who are home all day and will spoil her rotten ....all she needs is a warm bed, good food and someone to love her as much as you so obviously do

I really really feel for you ....you are such a good owner and will do whats right by your whole family ....best wishes
Jan xxx  

Hi Jan thanks again for your thoughts. Quite sobering reading, but I don't disagree with what you're saying. In answer to a few of your points:

> So....I dont think the bed thing is helping much ....I also think you arent reading her body language well enough, I saw her relax a few times and she had no reward to show her thats what you want.   Its not about rewarding her when she finally settles ....its more about rewarding the INSTANT her body language changes . Thats hard and challenging

I actually think it IS helping. We only got the dog back on Friday night and I think that video was from Saturday afternoon. I accept I probably missed a few relax points - I got lambasted by the last behaviourist for rewarding the dog at the wrong point and reinforcing the wrong behaviour, so I was just ignoring her whilst she carried on whimpering. In any case, since then she's actually learned that once she's in the bed if she gives me her attention she'll get treats. I can turn the stressy dog in the video into a dog waiting for her next treat pretty quickly now....BUT...

...as soon as the baby cries or there is movement it's back to square one, the dog wants to get out of the bed and starts up again. So the bed thing is good for turning the anxious situation into a calmer situation, but it doesn't prevent the anxious situation from starting in the first place.

> The most important thing is WALKS .....she needs to accept baby as part of her pack ....so you all go for a walk...you all go in the garden ...you all do it together and if you want to keep the dog then its all up to you to put the effort in.

We haven't been doing well on big family walks and I think what you say there sums this whole situation up. We've tried a few walks all together and when you're in the stride everything is fine, but you can bet your bottom dollar the baby will start to cry the minute you get to a busy public place, that starts the dog off so you have the two of them in unison... needless to say my partner really hasn't enjoyed it. I'd love us to be doing more walks together.

> Is she eating Ok ?   where does she sleep ?  Is she sleeping Ok ?

She had lost a kilo in weight since March. It's not clear whether this was gradual since March or has happened with the stress of the new baby. In any case, in the last couple of weeks shes started putting weight back on. She's eating fine, getting good long walks which are giving her a healthy appetite. If she gets distracted by baby noises in another room, she'll leave her food. But I'm just picking it up and giving it to her again when there are less distractions. She is eating it.

She's sleeping on the landing outside our bedroom. We leave our door open (but with a baby gate). Thankfully, our baby sleeps well at night and isn't crying much. It's odd though, because if the baby does make noises or wakes up in the night, the dog will maybe lift her head up, but she's not getting in to the state you see in that video. I think this is mainly because she's sleeping a lot less in the day - usually she'd sleep all day, but not now with the baby - so by night time she's just knackered.

> Also whats the dogs history ?   Is she prey driven ?   Will she hunt ?  Has she chased cats, rabbits , squirrels, how is she with other dogs ?   This all indicates her prey drive , is it strong or not ?

OK, she's a rescue dog and her previous owners (who also owned her mother) gave her up because she fought with her mother. She's not at all social with other dogs and has been in a fight with two staffies in which she lost the end of her tail. She has lived with cats and kind of tolerated them. If out walking and she sees a cat, her response depends on what the cat does - if it turns and runs she'll want to chase, if it's a ballsy cat that stands its ground she won't be bothered. That all said though, there's no mistaking she's a ratter. Given the chance, she'd love to chase and no doubt kill small fury squeaky beasts of all kinds.

Another development today: We tried the diazepam (1 dose of 5mg)... bad move!

We were expecting the valium to slightly sedate the dog, and the vet had told us that as long as she wasn't too sedated, we could use this opportunity to expose her to the baby and noises without her getting worked up.

She is being a bit clumsy moving around but she's not "sleepy" sedated at all. When I took her in to the same room as the baby she went absolutely ballistic - far worse than ever before. She was jumping up at the fence in the room which she hasn't done before and when I assertively put her in her bed she repeatedly ignored me. I've never seen her this naughty and it looked to me like straight up aggression.

Sadly I don't think we have any more options open. I feel a line has been crossed and rehoming is now the only thing we can do. :(

It sounds like it was the diazepam that caused this reaction so personally wouldn't see it as a line crossed.
I had clients who owned a rescued, ex working terrier when their baby was born and she definitely was not safe with the baby when it was small and made noises like a prey animal. They are not babies for long though, and they persevered, because they loved the dog. Now that baby is 5 years old and she and the dog have been firm friends for a long time

I have been following this thread over the nearly three weeks it has been running. I personally think this says it allThat all said though, there's no mistaking she's a ratter. Given the chance, she'd love to chase and no doubt kill small fury squeaky beasts of all kinds. As a mother and grandmother, much as you may love your dog, my advice to you is to rehome your dog. You have tried so very, very hard to overcome the difficulties you are facing and would not be giving up easily.

To me this situation, as some have said, may ultimately resolve as the baby gets older- on the other hand it may not. You both need to be enjoying your baby, not feeling as if you are living on a time bomb! However much we may love our dogs, in my book, the safety of babies and young children MUST come first. With all the care in the world, your dog could still slip through/ over the gate at the wrong moment. She may well be having difficulty in recognising your child as being a human being. In your shoes I would act now, for all your sakes, the dog included.

Best wishes Linda

I am not a fan of valium - it makes a lot of dogs wobbly, it can make them hallucinate and as you've discovered, it can cause disinhibition which can make aggression worse (or trigger it, if it's close to the surface normally).  When a dog is unsteady they can also feel much less secure and confident, making fears worse.  If something like that must be used, alprazolam is a better option - still the same risk but less so IMO, it does not sedate and side effects generally are much less common.  But I only use such things as a last resort - I use valerian or melatonin as my first-stop calming things now, if they are needed.  Both are typically used for one-off stuff, like valium, but unlike valium (and alprazolam), both can be used often - for example my Phoebe (super stressy collie with multiple noise phobias) is on melatonin 3 times a day, every day, for the forseeable future.  Valium and alprazolam, however, are strictly one-off use drugs - they are for acute scares such as fireworks and are not, IMO, suitable for your situation because the stress is a constant thing.  If you give them too often the dog can become addicted and even become more sensitive to their triggers.  You should also have been advised to test the first dose at a quiet time when the dog was not already stressed, to make sure she wouldn't have side effects, hallucinations etc - I'm very angry that the vet did not tell you this.  That is true of any calming supplement, prescription or otherwise.

There are other things that might help her stress levels - Ttouch, a thundershirt (or tight t-shirt or body wrap, both much cheaper than a thundershirt), massage.  It's also worth getting her very thoroughly checked out medically, if the vet didn't do it - bloodwork too.  Pain and illness does not always show obviously, and can have an effect - one of mine appears to be ok, but is very grumpy with other dogs sometimes; you wouldn't think there's much wrong with her but in reality, she has a prolapsed disc and is in quite a lot of pain (working on this atm and she is improving).  The only behavioural way the pain shows is in her grumpiness towards other dogs.

I think it's important that you do not view her behaviour as bad or naughty but as fearful, as that's how it reads, to me.  Stressful.  Assertively putting her in her bed will not help IMO as it will just add stress to an already stressful situation.  She needs to be led with a calm, positive example; as the saying goes, you can't fight fire with fire.  So getting assertive will only bring on the same sort of emotional state in her.  As she's also stressed to start with, any attempt to make her stay on her bed will fail anyway, because she'll be unable to learn (stress inhibits learning) and moving around will help alleviate the stress for her.

Get yourself a clicker if you haven't already and start to build some positive associations for her - so any time she does anything around the baby that isn't undesirable, click/treat it - anything at all, whether it's just not looking at the baby, or looking but not in a worried way (so just glancing over or calmly watching), walking past, walking away, etc, etc.  Click and reward heavily anything and everything good or neutral and that is what you'll see more of.  When I'm doing this with a dog I might be c/t every 5 seconds or less - really rapid fire stuff.  Also make sure she has time with both of you without the baby, so she doesn't only associate you with that source of stress.

> You should also have been advised to test the first dose at a quiet time when the dog was not already stressed, to make sure she wouldn't have side effects, hallucinations etc - I'm very angry that the vet did not tell you this.

I am too. I've seen two different vets over the past couple of weeks and discussed the diazepam with both of them. Neither mentioned such side effects, they just said if anything it will knock her for six. That certainly didn't happen.

One thing I'm taking away from this whole experience is that there's a lot of bad advice out there. We've spent a fortune on dog whisperers, behaviourists, visits to the vet and frankly it's got us nowhere. In fact I believe much of the advice we've received has actively made the situation worse. This isn't really on when you consider there's babies involved and the risks at stake. We're now in a situation where I think the only likely outcome is that the dog we've loved for so many years is going to have to be removed from our family. I look back at photos from a few weeks ago of a new-born baby in my arms, dog sat next to me, everyone as happy as can be, and I wonder how the hell it got to this.

I'm sorry I can't offer any useful advice, but I just wanted to say that if you are thinking of re-homing I really hope you don't send her to a rescue centre. A dog of her age and history is IMO likely to be very difficult to re-home and likely to spend the rest of her time in their kennels. :-( If it were my dog I would rather either re-home her directly myself to someone I trusted or (and I know this is not a nice answer) have her PTS. Ultimately my dog-my responsibility.
You said she went to stay with your parents, would that be an option longer term? as someone else pointed out, if this is a prey-drive reaction to something small and squeaky, well your baby won't be tiny forever. Is there any other family member or friend with-out kids who might be prepared to take care of her for you? possibly someone who couldn't afford to take on a dog themselves but would look after her for you if you continued to be responsible for her financially?

If you do decide to keep trying with her then I did have a couple thoughts.

It takes a considerable time for the stress hormones (pos seratonin, sure someone else will be more lucid than me!) to return to normal after a stressful event, as in hours or days, not a few minutes. If she is always living on edge as you describe then she will never be able to really relax and calm down. Do you have any way you could give her more space and opportunity to get away? like another room, a kennel in the garden for total 'away' time? if nothing else I think changing her bed for a crate (door open) that is covered with blankets to make a nice safe dark space for her to retreat to might really help her. at the moment it seems that she can't even lie in her bed without being exposed to the baby and also the stress of you trying to get her to calm down.
I would also NOT be trying to approach her with the baby. Not just for your babies safety (and that has to be your 1st priority) but from her POV. she is just settling down and moderately relaxed and you invade her personal space with the very thing that if stressing her out. If you really want her to sniff the baby I would be more inclined to just call her over when you are sitting in a chair with the baby up out of her reach and just let her sniff the blankets, drop treats for her and generally be as calm as possible about it while giving her every opportunity to retreat back to her 'safe space'.

Good luck, I really do feel for you, it is a horrible situation to be in. :-(

Agilabs, no we don't want to put her in a rescue centre either. We're trying to find people directly, friend of a friend or something like that. We've asked family which would have been ideal, but it's a big ask.

As for providing space for her to "get away" the issue is that she doesn't want to get away. We tried putting her bed in the kitchen but she just wants to be where we are and where the baby is. If me and my partner are in different rooms, one of us has the baby, the other the dog - the dog will whine at the door and want to be where the baby is. This is why we built the fence in the living room so she can be in the same room but not get too close, but all she does is sit at the fence whining or more likely just barking. She wants to get to the baby at all times. That's why the bed thing can work as if she's distracted with enough treats she'll settle in her bed.

I'm not a fan at all on drugging dogs to calm them, especially not to try to reverse a behaviour trait, the dog would have to be drugged up for the next year, I'd personally forget the drugs.

The video isn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it was going to be she isn't going crazy, but she is totally fixed on the baby, you can tell her eyes are glued to the spot there, much like she is looking at a rabbit and wanting to get to it, she doesn't understand what you have brought home at the moment and tbh that isn't going to change for all the trying to integrate, she views the baby differently to how you do.

She's a lovely dog by the way, a beautiful girl, but the breed does have a high prey drive and I wouldn't trust her for one minute. The good thing about this breed is they are very vocal and show very good body language.

You've been given some excellent advice, however......... if this were my dog showing these signs I would just make sure I had the tall dog gates up (she could jump the child gates if she wanted, well in all honesty this breed could even jump the dog gates, but if respect is given to the gates/barrier she probably won't) and not worry so much about behaviourists and trying to integrate, you're not going to change this behaviour, you're wasting your money, her prey drive is not something you can douse down, segregation is all that is needed at the moment and I wouldn't be focussing too much on her, I would just get on with things with the baby and ignore her, reward good behaviour of course but, otherwise I wouldn't be paying all this attention to a dog doing what her breed trait dictates, when the baby is sleeping I would then be giving the dog attention, play games with her and distract her from her only focus right now, making sure she gets her walks with and without the baby.

I know before the baby came, she was a real close part of the family, but for now she can't be, not in the same way as before, (some dogs can be, but she can't) she needs to be segregated, as long as you are still kind to her, and give her attention on walks and whenever you can spend time with her, also letting her back in the room when the baby is upstairs asleep she will get used to her new routine and it won't kill her, the pinning will eventually stop as she gets used to her new routine, if you can't cure something, and you can't cure a prey drive it's just best to take precautions. :-)

She'll take a back seat for a year or so.... it's better than her being passed on yet again, she still has a home, hopefully with people who love her, she's still in the house just segregated from baby, the baby comes first, never trust her.

As time goes by she will bond with your growing child you don't have to rush to get a dog to bond with a baby, it's nonsense and can wait, no rush at all...... over time....... the next few years, she will protect and love your child, your child will no longer look or sound like a prey animal, and they will become friends, under close supervision of course, I wouldn't give up, but for now you must protect your baby and there is nothing wrong with segregation, many dogs live in outdoor kennels, in this case it will just be a different part of the home as I said it won't kill your dog to be segregated and you can all live without a continual worry.

Excellent post Carrington. This is exactly what my clients, mentioned in my earlier post, did. It was all worth it and their very prey driven terrier is now devoted to their little girl.

Zan, can you tell me how long it took before your client's terrier stopped seeing the baby as potential prey? Are we talking months? Years? What was the dog like when the baby started crawling around?

To be honest, I would never allow a dog such as yours anywhere near a crawling baby.    That would be asking for trouble.

However, I would never have my own dogs near a crawling baby either, and they are soppy with both children and babies.    Crawling babies are liable to grab anything and have no idea of whether they are hurting anything/anyone,  not safe for the dog or the baby IMHO   ;-)

I think Carringtons post is a good one, it illustrates prey drive very well....which is totally different to aggression. I can train my whippets not to chase something with a huge effort on my part BUT the desire will always be there, you cant train that out of them im afraid.  I would worry about a baby with a high prey drive dog no matter how old the baby, when crawling and learning to walk they fall over a lot...that is enough to tigger a predatory response in such a dog. It could happen anytime , I wouldnt want the dog to be passed around either, but children come first and in this situation it may be better for the dog to find her a home. You dont need to rush you can take your time and look for someone you can trust to care for her .
I dont really like the sound of her being shut out all the time and not having what she is used to when someone else could give her everything she needs, at least try you might be surprised.

Ive decided when my Grandaughter comes here , which wont be often so wont affect the dogs much....but they will be shut in the bedroom ( they sleep on my bed anyway) Im not risking it

Just imagine a lovely retired couple who want a small affectionate companion , not a young puppy, she may find a fantastic home

Ive been thinking of you and hope something will come along to help you.....you will need to be very pro-active though as a good home wont find you

So my partner and I have reached a decision on what to do. We've decided we definitely will NOT either put our dog in a rescue centre or put her to sleep. But we are going to try and rehome her ASAP, through reaching out to family and friends, friends of friends, and contacting vets we've used in the past. As this forum has been so helpful, if there is any way anyone here could possibly help us, please do send me a message.

If we fail to get anywhere and have no interest, then we'll revert to plan B, which is to keep the dog. I will rent office space (I currently work from home) so I can take the dog to work with me during week days. I know the dog is fine with little children as we've had nephews and nieces stay with us many times, so we'll batten down the hatches and prepare for a year or two of extra vigilant, very careful dog ownership, and hope that as our baby becomes less baby-like, the dog will become less obsessed.

I am just so relieved to read this....your plan is what I have been hoping you would decide.   Its sensible, its the very best for you all AND you will have covered every option available

I will send some emails to friends that work in rehoming and if you can post a photo on here will put it on my face book page

If a super home comes up she will be fine... she is a very lucky dog indeed to have such caring owners as yourselves with her interests at heart as well as your families .....good luck and keep us posted xxxx

Meant to add.....you dont have to surrender her to a rescue place for them to help you....just go along and explain your situation ....they would rather she stayed in her own home until a home comes along. Take pictures of her and add a description with the sort of home you would wish for her xx

Thank you. For a picture, please use: http://arll.co/image/1H1E0h3K0W3G

And if you need any blurb:

Parson Russell Terrier in need of a new home

Looking for a new home for a much loved, 11 year old female Parson Russell Terrier.

I have had a baby and the dog has not adapted and I need to try and find a good, loving home for her. She is a lovely dog but just can't cope with the new baby. She needs a home where she is the only pet and there are no small children or babies, or the prospect of them (because I don't want her ending up in this situation again) and she can have lots of love and attention.

If you think you or someone you know could give her a good, loving, stable home please contact: ****

perceverance, this is such a sad situation to be in and it's also quite an unusual and interesting one (to me anyway).  You seem to be v intelligent and thinking very hard, and taking lots of good advice, so you have lots on your side in terms of figuring this out.

Can you take some more video footage to show us what's happening, especially with the crying/barking when it happens?

I watched the video of her stressed which you posted above, can you confirm that she was being prevented by barriers from reaching the baby and mum in the same room?

Have you tried doing any training with her?  I think that would be one of the first things I'd try, would be to get mum - without baby to start with - doing some basic clicker training for treats, and also playing some tuggy with her.  All that stress and anxiety needs an outlet and tuggy would be a great way to burn it off.  If that could be with the new mum, it would also help her learn that she's still available and interested in her, bond with her again, etc etc.

Do you know how to train her to go to her bed on cue?  Clicker again - stand by her bed, if necessary put the first treat in the bed.  Click when she touches the bed, and treat.  Shape the behaviour you need.  (If you google 'clicker training dog to go to bed on cue' you'll probably get up recipes, so I won't go into much detail.)  But rather than her being separated from mum and baby by a barrier, it would be better if you could tell her to go to her bed, and then reward her for it (and then keep rewarding her randomly if she stays there).  So she is then 'working' and 'choosing' to be in the bed, not being forced apart from who she wants.  Once a dog has a task to focus on and is trying to earn something, it tends to preoccupy them and the stress levels will drop.

Of course all this assumes she is interested enough to eat food and not so stressed she can't even do that...?

You mentioned something about her being aggressive with other dogs, is that all other dogs or are you aware of a specific sex/colour/type of dog?  Can she safely be around any other dogs?  I'm just thinking that a good dog walker might be a great asset here, giving you both a break from the dog for a few hours and giving the dog a whole heap of exercise and social interactions which are going to exhaust her for when she returns.  If she can't be around other dogs, perhaps there is someone who can walk her on lead or individually and spend some time playing tuggy with her when out and about.  There might also be someone you can find as a 'dog sitter', a retired neighbour who wants companionship from a dog but not the responsibility of their own...

The crying thing is really interesting and suggests some sort of empathy from the dog - dogs do respond to human emotions.  If you could frame it like this, perhaps your partner might see it in a better light instead of seeing the dog as jealous and seeing the behaviour in a negative light.

The Zyklene is very good as an idea, so keep on with that.  Are you trying a DAP diffuser?  I'd also recommend one of those and a DAP collar.  They're called Adaptil diffusers/collars now - definitely try one of those.  And I'd also recommend a Thundershirt.  All of these come tried and tested with research - here is an excerpt from a handout I give the owners of nervous puppies which lists some of the research - although it's written for the owners of nervous puppies, the same stuff applies to anxious adult dogs:

"I would strongly recommend you get the following products, which have been clinically proven in research to be effective:

1)  An Adaptil diffuser and Adaptil collar.  These products are entirely natural.  The diffuser plugs into a socket in the puppy's main room of your house.  It has no smell to humans, but it gives off reassuring pheromones which imitate the comforting pheromones given off by a puppy's mother.  As such, it will help your puppy to feel safer and more secure in her new home, when left home alone and when scary noises or events happen.  The diffuser lasts 4wks and you can buy refills for it.  We use 2 Adaptils at class - plugged in, in the hall, for all classes.  Research shows they help puppies to feel more confident when socialising and reduce barking in class.

The Adaptil collar will help your puppy when out and about.  Increased confidence will help your puppy learn that the world is not such a scary place.  Each collar also lasts 4wks.  I would recommend you get both these Adaptil products, since the diffuser is the 'strongest' form of pheromone which will have an ongoing effect even when the puppy isn't in the house - but the collar can boost that effect.  I would recommend you use these products throughout the socialisation period - from 7 to 20wks.  (For an eg of research, proving efficacy, see:  http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/163/3/73.abstract  )  You can buy both collar and diffuser without a prescription here:

http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/adaptil-dog-appeasing-pheromone-diffuser.html

2)  Zylkene.  Zylkene is also entirely natural and available without a prescription - yet so effective that vets are dispensing it.  It has been found to be as clinically effective as much more powerful anti-anxiety drugs, yet with none of the side-effects.  (See http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(07)00203-1/abstract )  Again, I'd suggest you use this throughout the socialisation period.  Choose the right tablet depending on the weight of your puppy:

http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/zylkene-capsules-priced-per-tablet-450mg.html

3)  Thundershirt.  You may raise your eyebrows at this one, but try to suspend judgement until you've researched it more.  The 'Thundershirt' is a type of 'anxiety wrap', which the dog wears.  It looks a bit like a doggie t-shirt to most people, but it is elasticated and so it 'holds' the dog.  In the same way that many babies feel safer when swaddled in a blanket, so many dogs (it has been found!) feel safer, when held securely.  For more info and videos on how it works, see:  http://www.thundershirt.com/HowItWorks/  

If you have a large breed puppy which is rapidly growing, it might be tricky to use a Thundershirt because your puppy will rapidly outgrow it.  But if you have a toy or smallish breed (ie small terrier), your puppy might be approaching full size already.

To use the Thundershirt, put it on when you anticipate experiencing scary situations.  That means:  Whenever you take a trip outside for socialisation, and when you come to class.

You can buy Thundershirts from Amazon (and do read the reviews there, if you are sceptical):  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Petlife-Thundershirt-Anxiety-Coat-Solid/dp/B0029PY7SK/ref=sr_1_1_m?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1350663711&sr=1-1
"

I hope some of that gives you some ideas.  I'd also say that you never do know what will happen - she may be fine by the time your baby starts crawling - or she may not.  But I wouldn't assume that it's definitely all going to work out badly in advance.  Babies and children shouldn't be left together unsupervised, and you are right to be wary, but it's only very early days at the moment and this is a big upheaval in her life.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">All that stress and anxiety needs an outlet and tuggy would be a great way to burn it off.

This is what we did with our rescue terrierX. He lives his life at full pelt and anything and everything is exciting. He gets very excited around other dogs and although my GR is quite happy to play with him he gets so OTT that I have to stop the games before they boil over into something else. One of the most exciting things in his eyes is when I open the back door to let the dogs out into the garden and he would literally launch himself at the other dog and grab anything he could - tail, ears, feathering etc. It was easy enough to not let him near my other dog as I opened the door but most days the door is open all day long and as soon as my GR went to go out or go in Cooper would be there waiting to leap on him - never in malice just pure exuberance but my GR wouldn't go in or out unless I took hold of Coops to stop him from reaching H.

I taught him to play tuggy and now leave the tuggy by the back door and Coops has learnt to take out his excitement on the tuggy and not the other dogs and they are quite happy to go in and out with him near to them as the tuggy takes the excitement and not them.

When my grandaughter was born I was very worried that he would find a baby just as exciting and we are always very, very careful to ensure constant supervision. If he starts to get excited he will go and grab his tuggy and shake it. All the dogs are always behind the dog gate when she is at my house and now she is eighteen months old he takes very little notice of her and tends to avoid her - if she is in the kitchen with me and he is behind the gate he will move away if she goes anywhere near that side of the room.

As she is a Parson have you contacted her breeder for help, or failing that the breed club, who will advise of breed specific rescue.

This way any potential new owner will have been looking specifically for a Parson, and most likely may be an experienced owner of the breed.

This rescue is a specific terrier rescue who seem to understand terriers and their specific traits. I would contact them and ask for advice http://www.terrierrescue.co.uk/terriers-in-deed/

http://www.oldies.org.uk/

You could try the above too as she is an older lady

Hi Rabid, thank you for taking the time to post your ideas and suggestions, it is appreciated. I have to be honest though, this has been going on for 7 weeks now and I think - as a few people above say - that we're dealing with the dog's high prey drive. A few other people have told me that we're not going to train the terrier out of a terrier. For example we've tried the bed training, and it works OK... as a distraction. But as soon as the baby pipes up again the dog's focus is immediately on the baby and we're back to square one. It's just exhausting and I think we're reaching the end of the road. Our options are to rehome her, or to segregate the baby and the dog and wait until the baby isn't a baby. But even that latter option, probably isn't being as practical and realistic as I'd want it to be.

Thanks for the links to the rescues. Sadly the Oldies Club can't take her as they're full. I've contacted the Terrier rescue and also a couple of local rescues. We'll see what happens.

The terrier rescue is good - they understand terriers and are very careful about the homes they rehome to. If they are able to help you I am sure they will consider every aspect when finding a suitable home for her. I am just really sorry that it has come to this - but being a responsible owner sometimes means we have to make decisions that we would rather not :-(

It sounds like you have made a very sensible decision, segregation for ? long may work but it would be placing a huge amount of pressure on you and any visitors to have constant vigilance and never make a mistake with gates and doors etc and I can totally understand your choice.
I wish you luck in finding her a good home.

http://www.parsonrussellterrierclub.co.uk/welfare.html Have you tried parson Russle welfare?

I do have contacts in the breed , is she a KC reg bitch ? Ive contacted the people I know tonight but need some more details about your girl if you know anything.