There was a debate at Ringcraft the other night about whether puppies should be given CCs, I have always thought that if the best dog of the day was thought to be a puppy then it should get the CC but was surprised by the number of people who said that they would withhold the cc if the dog was under 12 months old and in one case if the dog was under 18 months. Is this  common in judges.

It was said that at 6 months the dog might change and as time went on may not fulfill the earlier prominse so the CC should be with held. It seems somewhat unfair to me to withhold just on what might happen in the future and I was wondering if this was a fairly widely held  practice. After all the even the best champion will get old and what wins at  2 may well not get anywhere at 7. Just wondered what the view is on here.

In many countries under FCI rules puppies and dogs under 15 months are not eligible for CC's and also there has to be a year and a day between first and qualifying awards for a champion, so no dog can become a champion before it reaches 1 year 3 months + 1 day.

Fortunately we do not have this in UK, as it is pretty difficult to get them, with rationing and competing with the best on the day including champions, but a dog must be over 12 months old to become a champion.

One of mine won 2 CC's and several reserves as a puppy, and became a champion at 14 months.  She had a CC the following year, and in between two litters has notched up quite a few reserves since.

My other two champions one won her first CC in Junior, the other at 20 months, the first has 10 CC's, and the other has 7 (with 4 won in veteran).

When a puppy wins the CC I do think it quite a sad reflection on the adults present, and generally think it better that a cracking puppy win the Reserve on it's promise, but if it really is the best on the day, then CC it should have. 

From an exhibitors point of view winning a CC with a puppy can make it very difficult when almost inevitably the pup goes through the awkward immature adolescent stage (in my breed this can be from 12 months to three years, in males, and almost as long with some bitches, as they are so slow maturing), as they then look wrong and outclassed in Limit.

Yes, my boy won a CC at 14 months, and though he was (of course!) gorgeous, once he came out of Junior he did look a little immature compared to the dogs in Limit and Open that he had to go up against. I don't regret it though! I would prefer to see a promising puppy winning a RCC and BP, but if the judge genuinely feels that the puppy is the best dog present, they should give it the CC.

It was said that at 6 months the dog might change and as time went on may not fulfill the earlier prominse so the CC should be with held.

Well any judge should judge the dog in front of them ON THE DAY, not trying to guess what it might look like later.

I think this can sometimes be different depending on breed as some pups are(rightly so) very inmature(in body, coat etc) at 6+ months & dont look mature until over 18 months.
I doubt I would need to do it, as our breed has so many older animals, to have the choice anyway.

As has previously said, its dog on the day, not what it may or may not look like, in time to come.

> It was said that at 6 months the dog might change and as time went on may not fulfill the earlier prominse so the CC should be with held.
>
> Well any judge should judge the dog in front of them ON THE DAY, not trying to guess what it might look like later.

that was how I felt but I was surprised that several people wouldn't award to a puppy regardless of how good on the day because it may not look as good when fully mature. Strange logic to me as just suppose it did mature well and was even better. Might the judge then look foolish for missing a very good dog?

I was recently in this situation and it is difficult, you have what you have in front of you and the dogs will show and move the way they do on that day. On my day the best movement was from a six month puppy and it was with a good deal of concentration and trying to give value to the whole dog that I chose the winner from the open class and gave the pup the RCC. Now I give a good deal of value to movement as my breed should be able to move carefully, accurately for long periods  other judges and different breeds may well not agree.

It really is a case of what is there and how they show on the day.

Although I think it is a sad reflection on the adults on the day and also worry that maybe the puppy may go 'over the top' as it matures we are supposed to be judging the dog on the day so if the puppy warrants the CC, then so be it.

For me if it's the best dog on that day I will give it top honours.