Hi guys, me again and the cheeky puppy!
Still having problems!
Just how much playing does a 14 week old puppy need? Its just im wondering if his bad behaviour could be down to boredom. He gets aloy of attention and one of us will play fetch with him or hold his chew for him and he does 10min practise trainung twice a day plus can go in the garden whenevrr he likes.
Hes been quite good whilst we were away but since weve been back hes been so naughty; biting, jumping up at the kids, jumping up and grabbing things off the sofa, chewing the carpet and biting clothes etc whilst yr walking. Some of the time hes really vicious doing it too not just like puppy biting . Its becoming a real problem now. He has time out in his playpen till hes quiet but starts again as soon as hes out and sometimes i spend ages putting him back in his.playpen. weve tried all the advice previously given but it doesnt seem to be working. Last nihht i was sat on the floor with him to hold his chew and play and instead of taking his chew he bit me hard. I shouted ow as it really hurt and turned my back on him and he just jumped and bit my back then wee'd on the floor despite being outside 10 mins before having a wee.
I just dont know what to do now :(

A puppy like a baby does not understand naughty, that's subjective anyway.

There are toddlers that bite and scream and there are ones that don't.

With both pups and children a lot of OTT behaviour is due to frustration and tiredness.  they both need to learn to settle.

Both do what works for them, so the only way to stop unwanted behaviour is to not allow it to pay off.

A pups idea of play is to us pretty vicious, play for all animals and us too, is about practising behaviours it will need in adulthood.

So baby lambs prance and dodge and run, and butt, similar with calves and horses, all prey animals where the fastest nimblest, strongest survives.

Cats and Dogs are predators, and all their games instinctively are about hunting to survive, so games will be stalking, ambushing wrestling and biting.

They will learn how far they can go without hurting by their litter-mates and Mum doing the same to them, and realising they must limit their actions so as they don't hurt otherwise their game is ended.

Of course we are much punier and more delicate than their own species, so what is acceptable between them is not with us.

So the bite stops here article as advised, will work if followed through consistently, and you avoid pup becoming over stimulated and tired.  Just like a toddler going over the top and it all ending in tears.

Remember to both negative attention is still attention and preferable to no attention, and you must stay calm yourself as you can frighten and cause defensiveness.

Also like with children they need to learn to play quietly by themselves sometimes.

I agree with Brainless, it is just being a puppy! children and puppies bounce of one another. They slow up at three years of age. They push there boundaries, just like children.

Are you taking you're pup out for short walks yet? Has he played with another dog at all?
I have an 11 week old pup, so a little younger, maybe there is worse to come for me!. She went through a stage (and still does sometimes) of having phases of over the top biting, grabbing clothes, barking and snappiness. Since she has started to go out, this has reduced as she is more tired due to the excitement and stimulation of the walk. She has had some short play sessions with a neighbours year old dog. Needs to be well supervised as the older dog plays a bit hard, but I noticed during the play session that my pup started biting harder and the older dog yelped and and went away and wouldn't play for a while. My pup began to realise in a limited way that play ended if she was too rough. She has also started to entertain herself with her toys rather then requiring me to be a part of her play. I hope you are making your training sessions fun. I'm starting to introduce 'seek the treat' type games as well as the more formal sit, down, stand. I think the doing something for herself i.e. using her nose to find the treat, starts her thinking more and making her own games up with her toys. I am also starting to withdraw from being with her all the time so that she learns that she can be alone and be content.
Good luck. All I can say is that it's flipping hard work.

Just thought of something else.
When she does settle down for a doze, I say in a quiet, relaxed voice "settle down, good girl, settle down" a few times. Eventually, I hope, when I say this she will go and settle down. She is certainly worse when overtired and quite often hungry too.

Agree with Brainless - a pup does need to get some of it's excitement and energy burned off after being left alone and quiet -but they can then get too wound up and go over the top.  My grandchildren all tell mine to fetch his ball when they come in to ward off the excitement and give him something to do.  My granddaughter was crying the other day - 'I am fed up with throwing his ball for him - he won't leave me alone'   Pup has found a way to manipulate people now by bringing toys to anyone who comes in the door.   It does help to think of your pup as just a wound up youngster rather than a little monster - I always found the evenings were the devil dog time and there seems no end to it.  Have you played with a tug toy?  A good game of tug and then teach a leave it or give cue - get the pup to sit nicely until you give the cue to take it - that often gets a lot of energy out and also teaches the dog to have self control.  Mine is nearly 6 months now but the other day when he started getting wound up I put him on the lead in the lounge and ignored him until he finally settled down.  - Then I told him how good he was and gave him a treat - teaching the cue to 'settle down'  which I don't think he has quite got the hang of - he usually tries to wind up my other dog if we don't play with him.  It takes time - keep positive and try to smile at him  - if you are getting tense your voice will show it and that will wind him up too.  Keep asking questions on here - it was my saviour when I had my first collie - the number of times I nearly gave up on her - she is 8 now and we do agility - at one time I thought she was a really nasty dog - but it was lack of understanding - on my part, my husband's part (attributed human feelings to her) and my dog being unsure of herself not knowing what was wanted from her.   Praise the good behaviour, don't always be shouting no.  If pup needs time out - quietly take the collar and remove.  

> All I can say is that it's flipping hard work.

Couldn't agree more!   I leave toys out on the floor that I want my pup to play with - I don't hold with this idea of not leaving toys for them.  If you don't give a pup a toy that he is allowed to play with they will make a toy of something you don't want.  Mine gets small logs from the woodpile too which he chews which I do allow.  There are fancy toys out there that you can put treats in and the dogs rolls them around to get the treats out - I haven't used that for mine this time, only the odd stuffed kong.  Hiding a treat in the room and sending them to go find is really tiring because it uses their brain.  If I am walking and mine starts biting clothes and legs I keep a ball in my hand and say go on and throw it ahead.   Now I just say go on.  

What are you feeding the pup- including any treats or chews and how often is he being fed?

Thanks guys lots of sound advice. He has toys in each room hes allowed in and in the garden. We do play tug and fetch and im doing his training too which is the only.time he turns into an angel!! Hes fed on royal canin medium junior which is ehat hes always had and is fed 3 times a day. He gets hot dog sausages for training treats (bits of!) But this hasnt affexted him.
I will try the bite stops here again from scratch but if i have to pop upstairs or out to the bin etc he immediatly goes and does something he shouldnt and doesnt do when im there. I have washing on the radiators and the only time he pulls it off is when i leave him to go to the toilet for example!!

Sorry jodi i missed yr reply! I have started to take him out but last night it made no difference but maybe i need to do more altho then u get told not to exercise them too much while theyre growing!!
How do u do seek the treat? He loves training and is very good but have tried a kong but he gets bored easily with that!

Sorry jodi i missed yr reply! I have started to take him out but last night it made no difference but maybe i need to do more altho then u get told not to exercise them too much while theyre growing!!
How do u do seek the treat? He loves training and is very good but have tried a kong but he gets bored easily with that!

Getting 'seek the treat' going can be a bit tricky, but once they get it then its easy. At the moment I'm dropping a treat when she's not looking then encouraging her to find it by encouragement saying, seek, seek, and sort of pointing the way to the treat until she finds it. Then distracting her again, dropping another treat and repeating. It's early days and largely experimental until I find out what works.

Re:biting your back and weeing my youngster (4 mths) gets very hyper and bitey when she wants a pee or poo, that's just her way of telling me she wants OUT! Might be the same with your pup, it's just recognising the signals and if they get over tired they can be the same. When they're teething they're all over the place, today I looked in my pups mouth and three different teeth were erupting and there was blood everywhere.

barneybear,

You don't say if he has any dedicated puppy chew sticks, something that he will chew for a long time and that is safe. Chewing is really important for pups and dogs and one way they relax. There are some pups, like yours, that become the little play-biter from hell and they may need help to be redirected into chewing something. A fairly aromatic chew maintains a degree of interest while the action of chewing is an incredibly relaxing exercise.

I have dealt with very 'naughty' pups that made their owners arms and legs look like pin cushions. I think these sorts of pups are inclined towards hyperactivity and don't have an off button- they have to be taught it. These pups have to be taught two  things, one how to switch off. I found crating with a cover, after regular intervals, worked well. Like toddlers, there would be initial shrieking/tantrums and within minutes everything would suddenly go quiet as pup suddenly fell into a deep sleep. The other thing was to try to anticipate the hellcat periods (there often is a bit of a pattern) and get them chewing on something nice (I quite like bull's pizzle, but might be too hard for baby pup teeth). I have found that holding one end of the chew seems to make it more enjoyable, until they get the hang of it.

Do be quite sure that nothing you are giving the pup diet wise is producing hyperactive behaviour. Hot dogs are full of additives. I'd try cutting those out and give another, purer treat. Look at the Royal Canin ingredients and see if you could try another protein source within the same make ie fish instead of lamb or chicken or rabbit instead of the others. You might even consider a totally different make of food, I would be inclined to give it a go.

> chewing on something nice

I tried some pig's ear (a portion) the other day - made my pup throw up. I know that deer antlers have been criticised for possible breaking teeth on here - but I found that both my dogs enjoyed chewing on these. 

Thanks. He can access and does the garden at all times for a wee.
He does have lits of toys and chews and hard things to bite but seems to enjoy a hand better!
Also the hyper behaviour isnt related to times where hes had hot dogs, can they cause a delayed hyper action?
I thought royal canin was a good food, id not thoughy of changing but maybe i should look into it?!
He does have to have time out in his play pen if he gets too much, i just always seem to be going round in circles then wen he jas a good period i feel guilty about tjinking hes naughty

Any ideas on smelly chews? He does love his rawhide ones but if hes chewing the carpet he doesnt want to know about his chews!

I am using the same food with no problems.

BB,
Reactions can be delayed. We are not talking allergy but possible intolerance, which is different. It's not so much that RC is not good, just that it might not be right for your pup. Some dogs can have an intolerance to wheat/gluten, others to one form of protein (chicken or lamb, or fish etc..)..there can be skin reactions, itching, bowel problems, and/or behavioural changes. Why not have a chat with your vet?

There may be others on the forum who have been in your situation and can advise.

It might just be the way your pup is made, and, as I said, he has trouble switching off.

I know I used the word "naughty" but he's not, he's just reacting in the moment and doing whatever he's doing as a means to cope with those feelings/drives. Try not to feel guilty for giving him timeouts- it is not meant as a punishment- it is good for him to have regular bouts of activity interleaved with rest periods. Keep up the Dunbar protocol and you'll see that if pup gets really carries away you can start to use a houseline and stakeout points, where you simply walk away from nipping, tethering him so he cannot follow and let him cool off and try again. It should all be unemotional and simple cause and effect, it may take time but he will learn.

Remember also that pups like humans have to learn impulse control and very hyper excitable pups, like humans, will obviously take longer and find this harder to learn than do more laid back types. Just keep patiently repeating the lesson and you should get there. Beginning to teach a leave command, where pup has to back off a treat for varying durations, in order to win a treat, may help to build impulse control. It is an exercise that should be part of any good training class.

Have you tried smearing the inside of a kong with something really tasty, like a little peanut butter (unsalted and smooth and so long as he is not intolerant of peanut butter- some dogs are) or a knob of butter? He probably likes carpets and hands because they have the right texture. I'd be careful of rawhide as if it gets flabby it can get stuck in the throat. You could try him on a thin stick of bull's pizzle- but never leave him alone with it. There are also various dedicated puppy chews on the market that are flavoured- I'd investigate. Antlers are far too hard for puppy teeth.  You do want to encourage chewing sessions- once you have found the thing he likes you can bring it out a number of times a day as a rewarding but relaxing thing for him to do. 


I tried some pig's ear (a portion) the other day - made my pup throw up. I know that deer antlers have been criticised for possible breaking teeth on here - but I found that both my dogs enjoyed chewing on these

I had the same thing with my girl with pigs ears and pork rolls so switched to other ears like cow, rabbit and deer.

I fed my pup royal cannin medium junior, I switched her at 1 years after she kept gaining weight and scratching all the time on it. Can't rember if she carlmed down or not after.

Mine use to be a crazy puppy, I know some people won't like it but I resorted to a spray bottle of water to get mine to stop biting my ankles, (I knew I would prob have to work on that as I had read it was a breed trait) whenever she bit she got squirted, normally on the leg, shoulder or bum. she has never liked being squirted but throw a jug of water and she loves that. A few weeks and the feet and ankles were safe again. I also lurnt quite quickly who far to take play as she would get very bitey if she got hyped up, so stopped all play as soon as she started panting as after the panting came the teeth.

I like cow hooves for mine as they last a good while and are aromatic when chewed.  The empty ones, not the filled ones which are filled with lord knows what.

Another vote for hooves here. They do enough stink, but that attracts the dogs. I tend to hand them out to dogs likely to get bored if left alone, and my entire male Papillon gets them when he has to spend time away from bitches in season. They really are good. Bought 100 at LKA and am now running out -but that's with a lot of dogs getting them. We used them at Christmas as well to keep everyone occupied when we were eating and opening presents.

Yep bought a 100 at Birmingham, big heavy ones, as the last lot were the overseas smallish (calves ones).  On getting home I found I still had a boxfull of the smaller ones, which I find great for the pups.

One of my puppy owners emailed and asked me where I got thso nice oval chews ;)  She didn't realise what they were, LOL  I put her onto Zooplus who do the pale smaller ones from the Netherlands/Gemany at reasonabel price?

Don't suppose you can get them at PAH? My wicked youngster shrieks if left in her crate at a show, particularly if I've taken another dog out to show and she feels left out, and for some mad reason I entered her at a rally trial on Friday. Pigs ears shut her up for 5 minutes, but I need something longer lasting or something I can feed more of, as I have 2 other dogs in 2 rounds each (if nobody comes in season) - otherwise I'll just have to overdo the pigs ears and accept the squits next day! Not sure they'd be here in time if I ordered online?

I usually got mine next day.

Thanks frelancer yr post has made me feel a bit better and i might investigste the food as my puppy scrstches alot!! Have had some great advice today so will re read all tomorrow and make a plan of action!

Oh well I'll give it a go then. Have to do something or she'll be banned from rally trials! Such a shame as I could have a lot of fun with her, but if she won't accept my needing to leave her behind in the crate from time to time, it's hopeless. I'd like to take her to companion shows too, but can't have Jo Public hearing that racket, it's bad enough at open shows where I usually know a few other people in the breed and can ask them to tell her off. It's not separation anxiety, it's pure temper!

LucyDogs pets at home do sell hooves, they come stuffed but you can just scrape that crap out. There well more expensive (over twice the price the shop I go to sells them for) but if you need one quick.

Think Wilkinsons do/did both stuffed and plain, otherwise why not just take a couple of butchers bones.

Jostockbridge what did u change yr pups food too? My pup scratches alot and is growing very rapidly so i may have the se proble.s?

Thanks! Have ordered some online so will hope they come in time and work to shut her up!! No handy butchers around here alas and hubby is very against feeding bones anyway. She does like pigs ears, so hope hooves will also be interesting.

ps sorry for slight hijack of thread!!

barneybear,
If you have a halfway decent vet, why not go in and explain the behaviour and scratching and what you are currently feeding the pup.  The vet can check your pup to ensure he is free of anything else that might cause scratching. If together you conclude that food might be an issue then he/she can advise you on a diet. Some people find cooking their own food is helpful, but you have to ensure the pup is getting a good balance.

Did you see the parents when you bought him- were they okay and calm? Have you spoken to the breeder? Any half decent breeder should be prepared to offer help and advice, especially on diet. It could be that they've had pups like this before. The breeder shouldn't get defensive if they are kosher- sensitivities to diet and environment can just suddenly arise and no-one quite knows why, it's not a sign of poor breeding, so you would not be pointing the finger by asking.

I think it's good to exclude diet as a factor, and continue with the Dunbar exercises and get him to a good training class and try not to worry. Some pups, especially working lines can be absolute horrors and then they grow into the best dogs ever. Be warned, adolescence can be the most trying time of all, so do get into training asap. Oh, and if the vet talks about castrating him at around 6 months, walk.

Freelancer-thamls. Why do u say that about castrating? Its just hes been humping all his toys since about 8 weeks and they have suggested early castration?

I swapped her to CJS Superdouper Champ.

An animal and humans need their hormones to develop properly both physically and mentally.

There are more negatives than positives regarding neutering males at all, so really should only be considered for medical reasons, or if done because there are entire bitches in the home, and they cannot be reliabley segregated, then waiting until full skeletal (around 18 months) and/or mental maturity (often 3 - 4), and board one elsewhere until then.

This article (worth printing off for your vet, if they are of the neuter everything as all owners are idiots brigade) gives the pros and cons: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Early castration is not a good idea because dogs, like humans, need their hormones for proper bone growth and to mature mentally- it's not just about sex. I'm not saying don't get him castrated, just don't get him castrated before he has matured physically- around a year old for a small-medium dog.

Long-term the role of testosterone is to facilitate all the sexual behaviours and it generally makes dogs a more reactive and determined overall, however, the dog's brain in masculinized in the womb and at birth, so the imprint for behaviours is already there and cannot be erased. The dog gets another dose of hormone as his testicles grow and start to function and, yes, this extra load of hormone can magnify the behaviours that exist, but it doesn't create them.

If as a teenager he seems especially red-blooded and starts getting into loads of fights with other male dogs, cocking his leg around the house, running off the whole time to look for bitches etc..then you might think about castrating him earlier, but only if the problem is really severe and unmanageable, even then there is no guarantee neutering will help. Generally, it is about your maintaining training through adolescence and monitoring your dog, not just allowing him to go off and do what he wants. Many young males can go through a looking for trouble phase and you have to be careful about other intact males deciding to teach them a lesson- as this can turn into learned aggression. The key is to monitor your dog and don't let him barge up to every dog he sees. Intact males can learn to get on, often they'll choose to ignore each other, rather than fight, but teenage boys getting into an another/older male's face is generally not a good idea- so your careful management is the key to keeping him out of trouble. The male on male issue varies according to breed, lines and the individual dog.

This is where a good training class is so important- your pup has to learn to have manners and impulse control around other dogs, he has to learn about different types of dogs and that not every dog wants to be his playmate. yes, young males will fight, given the opportunity or certain triggers and this can snowball into learned aggression/fear (enjoying fighting and winning or seeing other dogs as a threat). So it is up to you to watch what your dog does and ensure he doesn't get into a situation where a major fight kicks off- like marching up to an older intact male and jumping on him in fun.

Anyway, castrating him young may not stop the humping which is probably not purely sexual, it's just a way for him to burn off steam and, again, lots of male pups do this. Castrating him young may make the humping and a whole load of other things worse. Some dogs never quite grow up because they have been castrated too young and are almost ADHD.

If he is being influenced by diet that too might be the exacerbating the humping- he's doing it because he has to do something- rather like hyperactive children get up to all sorts, if that makes sense. If he humps certain things try to distract him. I have had to confiscate blankets in the past- it's not unusual.

Barbara, you beat me to it..short and sweet:)

Thanks freelancer thats good to no as its only the humpung that made them say castrate at 5-6minths but he is only doing it to his toys at the mo so think ill wait and see how things play out
Since yr such a wealth of knowledge can i ask something else. Ive been told that young puppies shouldnt be walked/exercised too much as it can affext their growth but i think he needs more than hes had as he may be bored. Hes always out in the garden and we do fetch etc so how long a walk (on lead) should he have at 14 weeks if i did it twice a day? Hes been out for two 10 mins today and weve really tried to keep things calm in the house and weve had a better day so far?

The rule of thumb is that a pup should only have 5 minutes per month of life of forced (that means on lead) exercise, up to twice a day, but once is more suitable in larger breeds who are growing faster and for longer).

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/395 and here is a printable PDF http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/12659/puppyexerciseas.doc

So your pup should not have more than 15 minutes , so 7 1/2 minutes out and 7 1/2 minutes back.

at 4 months 20 minutes, 5 months 25 minutes, and so on, so 6 months half an hour, 9 months 45 minutes, a year old an hour.

That does not of course mean you should not sit on a bench and let him watch the word go by, or stop so people can speak to him (which they will want to do).

You should be practising walking him on lead, so he is happy with it at home before venturing out on the street.

Of course car trips to friends, trips on the bus, to friends etc can all be done, and will interest him without damaging high impact exercise.

So is that 15 min twice a day or 15 min split between twice? Ive hardly been walking him so the most ive done is 10 min rwice a day but if hes done lots of running around or has been stimulated loads i dont do any. Is that right to do?

If he is a large breed like a Labrador that's just the once, if a small to medium then up to twice, start with once and see how tired he gets.

Hi, that would be 15mins total.. If the odd day is a bit longer it won't do any harm but don't over do it.

I haven't fully read all of the posts, is it a Lab you have? If so or something of similar size please be very careful with their joints, no running up an down stairs, jumping in and out of the car, sofa or anything else they can bound onto and off of. Careful management in a puppy can help reduce issues later on in life.
I think getting your pup to classes will help, many start with young puppies like yours, the kcgc scheme start with puppy foundation through to gold award and a good trainer will give you tips and homework to practice on during  the week. Also great way of meeting other puppy owners and maybe a puppy play session could be arrange with one or two of them.

Tiring your pup out without walking can be hard work, in some cases very hard work. I have a tick sheet and try and get my pups to cover all, so we take a trip to the supermarket and sit outside for cuddles, train stations, main roads, schools, garden centres, sitting in a village high street - all free and easy todo and great for socialisation and tiring that brain out.
I have a bitch who is busy in the house and as a pup she had knuckle bones, hooves, balls, kongs, empty milk bottles, anything to chew, chase or bounce in the home and garden.

If he is getting bored you could try things to work his brain, like stuff toys with food or teaching tricks.
Use to do two short training sessions a day when my girl was a pup.

Thanks no hes a cocker. My last cocker was very quiet hence struggling with this one!! Thats a good idea to just take him out places. I try and take him in the car sometimes on school runs etc but the weathrr was so hot in july i wasnt able to much! Im doing one to one training as couldnt get into a class (live rural and theres not many!) But weve been away for a week and have missed two weeks so hopefully once we start again (tomoro) he will get more focussed

Hi,

I hope that things are improving for you.

I have a 12 week old very large breed (Briard) and although he only gets 15 minutes walking on the lead daily, I have made a rule that I take him out every day. As has been mentioned, we go out in the car and sit outside the supermarket, we plod along a high street and then sit down. He is watching traffic, getting used to wheel chairs, push chairs, small screaming children, people wearing hats, you would be amazed at the phobia's they can build up if not exposed to all of these things at an early age. We live in a very rural area so apart from sheep and horses, chickens he doesn't get a lot of stimulation from just lead walking. The added bonus to all of this of course is that he gets mentally tired.

Having a very high maintenance breed, he needs to be kept busy or else he will go "self employed" I have found that this is the only way that I get any downtime. He is now in a good routine which he thrives on, he knows that when we come home, it is straight into his crate for sleep and then when he wakes up, food time and then we start all over again...it is very hard work as someone said, especially as I haven't had a pup for 9 years! I don't know who sleeps more deeply, me or him! 

barney, adolescent dogs have 8 times more testosterone than they will have when they are adults - it drops off after adolescence.  So a lot of the irritating male-dog behaviours you see in adolescence will right themselves given time, he doesn't need to be neutered to stop them.  (Adolescent boys can be irritating too, but we know they will grow out of it!)