Hello Board

We thought we had been reasonably successful in teaching the concept of "Give" to our 9 month old corgi. However, it only seems to work when we exchange a treat for a ball/toy when playing fetch but not when he picks up a forbidden object off the street [e.g. aspirin packets] or at home [cleaning sponges etc]. Obviously he knows he is being naughty as we try and get the things off him by saying "Give" and offering treats but the more we try and coax him the more lockjawed he becomes and his head goes down or turns away. He also then tries to gobble the thing up as soon as he can regardless of difficulty in chewing it. Have tried prying jaws open and sometimes that works depending on the size of the item but it is also a bit scary as I don't know whether he is playing or whether he wants the thing so much he could become aggressive.
By the way - if I see him about to pick something up I say "off" loudly and he obeys. It is only a problem when it is too late and he has the object in his mouth and knows it will get our attention.
Can anyone help/explain?
thanks
cizzy

I don't know if this is of any real help, but I taught my lot that "Give" means "open up!!" by, if there was no response, pressing the inside of their top lip against the point of the canine tooth, repeating the command and gradually increasing the pressure until they "gave". Now they will happily "give" to the hand with no contact from me.

I hasten to add that the moment they relaxed the jaws, all pressure was off, and they got lots of praise and a reward when I had the object (or had stuck a pill down their throat, or whatever).

I personally press further back pushing a finger and thumb into the gap behind the last of the teeth. The further back your fingers are the less pressure the dog can put on them and the easier to open the dogs mouth.

Regards, John

If it is something you really don't want your dog to have, that you think could harm him and he won't give it to you then pinch his ear (using your thumbnail) - Hard! When he yelps, move you hand very fast in case he bites and grab item, praise lavishy unless you are screaming in pain because you did not move fast enough.

If this method is successful you may find that he will give his prizes up each time you go near his ear. The essence of this method is surprise so must be done fast.

Christine

A friend taught me to blow in my dogs ear to make her let go. Normally she would give up anything but when she was in whelp no way would she give up a rabbit and her jaws would clamp, it took a few blows right in the ear and she would drop anything.

I don't know quite how you would reach a corgi's ear, a bit low down!!!!!

Here is another method.
I stand over the dog with him between my legs facing the same way. Grasp the collar with both hands and raise the dog slightly so both front legs are off the ground. Rock/bounce him gently but do not let his front legs touch the ground. Sooner or later he will spit out the article he is holding and gasp!
Once achieved I can either flick the article out of the way with my foot or walk backwards with him a couple of steps so he can't dive on it again when he is released (especially useful for something dead or nasty). Another point is that you are in a position of strength with him should you fear an aggressive reaction or not want to touch what he has as you are not physically pulling the article out of his mouth or prising open his jaws. He is in fact releasing *voluntarily*!

I would play tug awore with ur dog and teach the out method. U hold onto the other end play and pull, then stop and grab the collar and slack up on the rope and say out or drop it. This way ur dog wil understand the out. U may have to use treats or praise to teach in the beginning.

ttfn :)

ok thanks very much everyone. I will see if I can improve my jaw prying technique but I hope the ear blowing will work as that seems to be the least pain inducing method for everyone. I am worried that if I pinch his ear he may not like me scratching them anymore and he does like this [actually I think he might be a cat].
I did once try tapping his nose but it didn't work and he just gave me those pity inducing "eyes" etc etc. Just as well I don't have a Bassett Hound...
cizzy

Dear cissy,

In my opinion, your dog is suffering from "prize envy." This usually occurs when an owner makes a big deal about an object the dog has picked up. As a result, the dog considers said object to be of great value and does not want to relinquish it. In some cases, such as yours, the prize envy is so advanced that the dog resorts to swallowing the object in an effort to keep it...not good. By reacting so melodramatic and trying to forcibly persuade him to let go you are actually re-enforcing the behavior by inadvertantly causing him to want the object even more.

It's really not that different from a 14 year old child wanting to drink alcohol (for example) because it is blatantly prohibited and therefore, the alcohol is valued even more by the adolescent.

How do you resolve your problem? Instead of waiting for him to get ahold of a potentially lethal item (like aspirin for example), set up a controlled trial in which you purposely put an item you know he will want to acquire (make sure its not small enough for him to swallow though). Only this time, try not to make a big deal about it. Instead, take one of his favorite toys like a ball or something and start playing with it opposite the room from him. Make sure you pay no attention to him. Act like your are totally unconcerned with what he has in his mouth, yet, at the same time ensure that you act as if what you have is the greatest toy in the world. It may me more effective if you purchase a new toy which he has never played with before. Bar-be-cue flavored bones work very well.

The idea is that hopefully he will become more interested in the object you have and not the prohibited object. Make sure you have some treats handy and praise and reward when he lets go of the forbidden object.

The main idea here is to undo the prize envy you have mistakenly developed. Repeat the excercise everyday with different objects until his prize envy diminishes. After you have resolved the prize envy issue, begin concentrating on the command "release." After you have mastered that command, it is critical that you do not make a big deal of him picking up restricted objects for obvious reasons.

Nevertheless, the guidelines i have provided for you are much easier said than done. If you do not feel you are qualified enough to rehabilitate your dog do not hesitate to hire a professional behaviorist.

P.S. make sure you implement every forbidden object you can think of in your training excercises. When using potentially deadly items like aspirin and cleaners for example, make sure that they are empty or that the contained material inside is replaced with something less detrimental.

Please do keep us briefed periodically as im sure other posters are interested in your progress as well as I. Good luck!

Best regards,
Oblivious

Hi Cissy,

Oblivious is absolutley correct! My 11 week old Munster insists on bringing in stones each time he's in the garden. He used to come in wagging his tail looking at me knowing I was going to leap on him to retrieve the stone and he would clamp down. All last week I just ignored him and started playing with a toy or go to the treat cupboard. He'd instantly drop the stone to see what I was upto and I would pick up the stone when he wasn't looking. Needless to say the stone thing is hardly ever happening now!! :)

Zoe P x

thank you - I think it is terribly hard to ignore a dog when he picks up everything on the street but he is so much better than he used to be as a puppy, especially when we started to use "off!". He did pick up a rock yesterday and gave me cheeky eyes so I walked off - he dropped it and came after me so I think this approach will work together with the controlled training. Paper towels are one of the favourite forbidden objects so will try with these. I am going broke buying toys- the squeaks only last about 1 day.
cissy

Try purchasing some bar-be-cue flavored bones. They are exceptionally more durable than rubber squeakers or stuffed toys. There are also some "indestructable" rubber toys on the market. If you do decide to take this alternative, make sure you buy one that has a hollow middle that you can use to stuff with peanut butter or something. Not only will this help as a training aid and persevere much longer, but it can be used as a distraction toy that will keep your dog's attention for hours. This comes very handy when you have to leave the dog home for a short period of time by himself or with dogs who suffer from seperation anxiety.

Good luck

Best regards,
Oblivious