My maiden stud has a lady friend staying with us. She's currently ovulating (according to the tests) so is standing for him and wanting him to climb on. But he just won't. He is sniffing her, licking her but nothing. Then the most annoying bit of it, he goes back into the house and goes and humps his bed!! So frustrating. So is there anything I can do to help him realise what to do? She is due to go back home tomorrow and I'm guessing no mating means no fee.

Please help :)

Of course no mating means no fee - is this your first priority? Think about the poor bitch owner who has put all the thought and planning into having a litter (I hope) and now won't be having one :(

Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound money grabbing. Was just an innocent question as I've read some adverts that say payment up front and 50% returned if no mating/litter occurs.

She knew he was a maiden stud but was happy to use him as every stud needs his first time to prove himself. I just didn't want to disapoint her with nothing happening as was wondering if there was a way to "entice" him so to speak :)

A bitch isn't ready to conceive until two days after ovulation and the ripe eggs will last up to another two days. 

Some stud dogs will not mate a bitch until this time.

I'd certainly look at keeping her until 4 days after ovulation before calling it a day.

Of course he simply may not have got the hang of it, some males can take time to, and some never do.

Was just an innocent question as I've read some adverts that say payment up front and 50% returned if no mating/litter occurs.

Good stud dogs don't need advertising; whether maiden or not their owners tend to be approached when bitch owners see the dog do well at shows,so I'd disregard the writings of anybody who actually places adverts for a dog for stud -it tends to be people doing it for all the wrong reasons (with a few exceptions, of course).

All breeders I know would not take a stud fee if the dog wasn't proven, at least not until pups were born.

> stud needs his first time to prove himself

I have never charged a stud fee when using an unproven dog.  I think this is the norm, and fees can be charged once a dog has actually sired a litter.  The question is, do you know how to handle a potential stud?  They sometimes need a little assistance.  :-)

Well I spoke to her owner and it looks like she has missed the breeding time herself. The first day she arrived she was standing for my male and lifting her bits for better access, but now she's not doing anything but bleeding so I think she brought her bitch to me too late. I did find it strange that he was sniffing and wanted to do something but not doing it but taking it out on the bed. oh well. There's always a next time :)

It's always a good learning curve for me as well :) Thanks everyone who answered.

So when did she actually ovulate?

She was using Test strips and apparently she ovulated Sunday morning.

If (and it's a big if) these can be relied on, and I seriously doubt it, otherwise we would not need to be progesterone testing, then she would not be fertile until Tuesday and still fertile until Thursday.

The old fashioned way of doing things with a willing bitch is to mate until she will no longer agree to stand (as by then the eggs will have died).

So if she is not refusing his attentions, then you probably still have time.

In my own experience bitches will often be willing to stand before some males will go near them, especially if they are not maidens.

I did try lifting him on top of her and trying to "rub" him, but he was having none of it and she just wanted to get away. Is there anything else I could try?

If she is no longer willing then there is no point, and hope he gets the hang of it with a bitch presented at the RIGHT time on another occasion.

If he is a 'quality dog' with something positive to offer the breed then I am sure there will be other bitch owners who will take the chance on him.

Well I think he's a "quality dog" (If a bit stupid) but then I'm biased ;)

Well she's going home tonight. The lady said she'd like to try again with him next season as he's a beautiful dog so I've said we can keep her for a bit longer next time so we don't miss the season :)

Thanks for the help everyone :)

> The first day she arrived she was standing for my male and lifting her bits for better access,

Please don't assume that a bitch is "ripe" just because you have seen her do this.  I am a very experienced person in supervising these situations.  I usually ask my most experienced lad to let me know if a bitch is ready.  He will lick and sniff and walk away if she isn't.  He just won't waste his energy.  It's very helpful if I have a long way to drive to the stud that I actually want to use.

Lifting her bits as you term it, is called flagging.  I have a few bitches that would flag for a camel.  Not because they are ready, but they are just total and utter trollops.  Yes, you get them in the canine world too!  :-)

When any bitches come for one of my boys I can usually tell if we're anywhere near the right time by the feel of the bitches vulva.

> She was using Test strips

Just to say - waste of time IMHO.

I usually keep checking the colour of her season blood when it is practically clear ,straw colour and her vulva is very large and sguishy ( couldn't think of another word lol ) and flagging I usually get them bang on ,counting the days also.I have tried testing once ,waste of time in my opinion and have never had a bitch miss. although I may have been lucky.I have had one of my girls conceive on day 10 and next litter was day 16 ,snow that year held things up!

> I usually keep checking the colour of her season blood when it is practically clear ,straw colour

Just a reminder to anyone else reading the posts.  I have never seen "straw colour" in the last 40 years, so despair of ever seeing it now.  Many of us find it perfectly normal for bitches to bleed throughout the matings, and continue to bleed until the end of their normal season.  And still get pregnant and carry a normal litter.

Just mentioning this unless anyone reading has "read the book" that mentions straw colour.  As many of us have said - our bitches don't read the book.

What book is this  ? I have definitely had it with mine I check them with paper every day from when they come in season and you can see the colour changing as the vulva swells during the season. Straw colour to me is not bright yellow but a very very clearish pinky colour,Then the bleeding stops after this,I have had many litters over the years and this has always been the case. I tend not to read much as there is so much conflicting advice that its best to make your own mind up with experience.I also breed sheep and cattle (I realise they are different ) and follow my instincts. Keep it simple and nature takes its course

" the book of the bitch"

I have used the ovulation strips on more than one occasion, it was them that alerted me to my bitch missed 4 times and had a phantom each time was ovulating on day 8, with my final attempt at getting her pregnant I had bloods done which tallied with what the strips were telling me and she finally got pregnant mating on day 10&12.

Sounds like ive been pretty lucky ,it was an old lurcher breeder that told me this years ago when I first started out,i suppose there must be a place for the tests as you say ive had allsorts over the years but not a phantom I expect iwill have these to come yet !!!then  will be posting for help !!is this book not any good then ?

The book is very good, but many of us find our bitches differ.

I have never had straw coloured discharge, though as you say paler blood, but often had it very much darker the last week of the season, and not just when they have been mated.

I have also had them bleed for up to a month, still carry a litter, and no signs of infection (one bitch did this on a non breeding season, and also the season she was mated, and I had her vet both times for infection as worried.

I also find that bitches vary greatly as to when they re ready, there seems to be breed and familial tendencies here.

I have never had a fertile mating before day 14 with any of mine, and latterly have had some bitches not ready until after day 18.

If I am travelling int eh UK I normally don't bother visiting the stud before day 14, and when I have gone abroad have gone on day 10 or 12 and stayed until around day 20.

On both occasions going abroad I have flown so had to book tickets the day the bitch came in season, so no point blood testing, just ensure I COVER MOST LIKELY DATES IN THE TRIP.

"I have a few bitches that would flag for a camel.  Not because they are ready, but they are just total and utter trollops"

That's so funny LOL :)

Me too was trying the cat one day ,couldn't stop laughing.!