I have a 2 1/2 year old springer (show type) that I'm having problems training. I've been training him since I got him at 8 weeks old & he has been through 2 training courses but I cannot get him to focus. He might do 'sit' if he's thinking about it but anything else he just seems to ignore - that's if he even understands the commands. I've revisited the clicker recently to see if that helps & I thought we finally had 'down' cracked but this morning we are back to square one with him just looking puzzled & then getting distracted. Everything seems to be a distraction to him. This morning it was just looking out the window but it could a noise outside, a fly going past, the tv,  it seems everything is more interesting than training. I've even tried using a tennis ball rather than food but that is a distraction in itself. I know it should all be a game but when the game is distracting in itself it gets very difficult. His recall is about 99% now even with a distraction & he walks nicely on the lead until we get a distraction but that seems to be my only success. I have trained a springer before but a working type & also my very stubborn dachsie not to mention the dogs I've had in the past but this one has me stumped. Any thoughts anyone please?

what rewards do you use?
If he doesn't reliably obey your commands then essentially he DOESN'T understand them, logically it's no good getting stressed with him if you keep telling him sth (ie) down and he doesn't respond. Also from what I have seen of spaniels in an agility environment, looking away vacantly, sniffing, refusing to make eye contact/star gazing are all typical displacement activities if they are feeling at all stressed out, if they are picking up on any frustration from you (totally understandable!) and can't understand what you want it is easier to drift off than keep trying.
my suggestions would be:

train somewhere totally boring. maybe a hallway with all the doors shut, bathroom or kitchen with doors and curtains shut.
Train when he is hungry

Use REALLY good treats, not boring kibble stuff but something he gets really excited about like cheese, liver cake or ham.
no more than 5 minutes at a time

go completely back to basics with each different behaviour/skill and train the behaviour before adding the command in, you might as well talk Swahili before they understand the position.

pick something more interesting to train than a sit or down, what it is doesn't matter but the thing he really needs to learn is that working for you is FUN I would consider trying agility if you can find a beginners class near you. if you don't fancy taking it up properly then maybe buy one of the cheap garden started sets available online (agilitywarehouse) and play at home. you could also just get a childrens play tunnel from argos and get him working for the ball. I would start buy having the tunnel a short as possible and and holding him by the collar at the start, toss the ball at the exit and encourage him to get it, after he is happy then start sending him into it and throwing the toy as a reward AFTER he has decided to go through so he is starting to work out the -obey command-get fun reward-  chain of events.

another idea could be retrieves? flyball?
good luck HTH

Thanks for your reply. At the moment I am using Fish4dogs training stars as Finlay seems to work for them. I've tried other things but he gets too fixated on the food & won't do anything at all. I've used sausages for recall & loose lead walking but sausages don't seem to work for the basics. I tried yesterday to use a tennis ball for a reward but that was also too exciting. Maybe I will try cheese or chicken again. I will try finding somewhere boring for training but when you are Finlay NOTHING is boring its all really exciting!!

I had a trainer show me how to use a clicker years ago but she didn't show me how to get the dog to offer behaviours so I am trying to learn that at the moment. My other dog is brilliant at 101 things to do with a box offering lots of behaviours Finlay on the other hand doesn't really seem to get it. Its difficult as I'm learning as well so I probably miss lots of clicking opportunities but I did get a little success yesterday with him kicking the box but he didn't really want to try anything else. I will persevere & see if we can improve on that & get his interest.

I would love to do agility with him. When he finished his last training course I was going to sign him up for agility but was told that he needed to improve his obedience first. Easy I thought! Eighteen months later I'm no further forward & I know its not worth taking him as he wouldn't be able to concentrate with so many dogs around. We have a little agility course on one of our dog walks which my other dog loves doing (he's a little limited as he's a dachshund!) but even if Finlay spots Reg doing his little bit & comes over to join in the fun he very quickly gets bored  although today I did get him to try the jumps with a little bit of success. I do have a play tunnel  - somewhere - I'll get it out & see what they both think. He doesn't retrieve so I can't go down that road, he just doesn't get bring the ball back & it gets thrown again. I've tried using several ball but although he races off after the first ball, he'll then come back for the second without the first. I'm also investigating scentwork but I suspect that Reg will more interested than Finlay.

I will keep plugging away & try some of your ideas. Hopefully sooner or later it will click with one of us whats going wrong!

You firstly need to teach your dog to focus on you & Karen Pryor is probably one of the best if not the best clicker trainer in the world. Loads of free information & advice on her site

I highly recommend the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt, I think it covers exactly the things you need. I have only read the puppy version of the book which is more about prevention of problems, but I think either version of the book would be useful for you.

Thanks for all the ideas .

I have  Control Unleashed. I bought it to try & sort out little Reg's problems (he's a really nervous little dog & barks at everyone & everything) but last time I read it I did think it would help Finlay as well. Time to read it again.

To Tommee: I know focus is needed but can't seem to get it, nothing seems to work. The lights always seem to be on but there's definitely no one at home (I can't make up my mind whether he is really stupid or really clever, time will tell)!! I have all Karen Pryor's books & I'm signed up to her website

To Agilabs: OMG! They love the tunnel. Reg moved in as soon as it was up & had to be evicted! Finlay WILL chase a ball through it so maybe I can do something with that. Unfortunately star gazing still happens in a boring room with the curtains drawn so either my technique isn't good or its too boring. I might forget basic training for the moment & just do other more exciting things & see if I can get some focus.

I have total focus from Reg when I am training him & he's the most stubborn dog in the world so it must be possible to get it with a highly trainable gundog.

You & Finlay need to be alone when teaching focus & your rewards must be of the highest value-garlic sausage, cooked chicken etc something that he never gets anywhere but training. I have helped train a "butterfly"minded ESS(working)from when he came into his forever home aged 5 1/2 months. He wouldn't even walk on a lead & recall was off lead was non exisent. However now he does agility(for fun)at a speed & accuracy that could win competitions & also obedience upto Gold KCGC level. All done with a clicker & a bag of special treats.

Teaching focus like any other clicker training is done by degree & every little step forward is clicked & rewarded. Short spell of no more than 10 miniutes as you are asking the dog to work out what he has to do to gain the click as approval. Hand touching(ie the palm) is a good place to start & even my Cavalier can manage that & paw giving & his brains are definitely at the other end of his body to his eyes ;-)

Can I run this past you all? This mornings training session consisted of me getting Fin to do random commands that he knows (watch, sit, touch, stand etc) but throwing in the occasional down & having a game of tug between every several commands. It seemed to go very well but will he actually get to learn 'down' if I don't make him do it several times in a row & was the training session too busy (it lasted about 3 minutes).

I should say also that he gets clicked & treated for every right command, he doesn't just get the game of tug.

I have a working bred springer (and no training credentials) she will tug but has to be really really revved up and encouraged to do it.  We have a specific command to do it and she has been used to that from being a puppy.  She will only tug with me and although she enjoys it she is not a natural tugger.  I don't think it is a natural thing for the breed to do.

Finlay loves to tug so I thought it would be a good reward for him to try & keep him focused which it did appear to do. I won't hold my breath though, what he loves today may not be what he loves tomorrow as he's very fickle.

Have you ever done an Attenntion class?  I've done a couple and so far I don't see any of the things we learned suggested here.  Our classes did not seem like training for anything in particular that you might do regularly in real life or in a show. 

Let's see, one was me and dog in a boxed off area with a chair.  Another dog and handler working rally jumps in the big ring beside us.  Really good treats for my dog.  I sit on chair, he's on leash.  I say nothing, do nothing till he looks at me.  Yay, click or YES, give good treat.  Then we run to the other side of our box and I ask him to sit, or stand, or down and he gets one really good treat.  Then I go back to the chair and sit, say nothing, do nothing till he looks at me.  Repeat going to the other side of the box and do a different action.  At first chair sit when he finally looks at me it's with a look of, "What the heck is going on here?  That other dog is out there jumping jumps and having fun and I'm stuck in this little fenced box with boring you."  But as we progressed he paid more and more attention to me, I was doing something interesting, he just had to figure out that looking at me was key to doing something that involved action and a reward.

We did several other things too that an Attention trainer can show you.

I have Control Unleashed and it's GREAT.  I also would recommend When Pigs Fly by Jane Killion.  Don't let either book's aim at hard to train breeds or reactive dogs throw you off.  My boy is a Lab, supposedly a very easy to train breed but very high energy (but not nearly as much as my field bred English Springer Spaniel :) ) and easily distracted.

I love the Pigs Fly book.
It's a great entry-level book to anyone wanting to start clicker training as it breaks down everything into baby steps, which a lot of others don't.

Great for anyone with a rescue or who isn't sure if their dog will be /is difficult to train,  which is what makes it such a joy... it just assumes your dog is, and therefore takes things much more gently than many other books. Which can sometimes be what the owner needs, rather than the dog :)

Just want to add that I also love Control Unleashed and Jane Killion's When Pigs Fly.  I have found them both really interesting and useful and the methods are such fun.  I used a lot of the suggestions in the puppy version of Control Unleashed with my youngster and it worked brilliantly.  He adored his training!  Good luck with your lad - I am sure you will get there!

springfever - sorry I was timed out of editing my post (above).  I should have added that the approaches set out in the two books mentioned worked with my lad even though at times he had the attention span of a gnat!

Thanks guys for all your help. I have just started reading Control Unleashed again - amazing how quickly you forget what you've read as it sounds ideal for Fin & I hadn't thought of getting it out again. I'm also going to look out my copy of the Jane Killion book also bought for Reg when I struggled training him but I'd forgotten all about that as well.