I have a question. I have noticed a lot of breeders seem to have a lot of older puppies still for sale on here. Is this usual or is it a sign of the economic climate?
What happens to these puppies if they aren't sold?

I posted this in general, but then thought this might be the place to put the question instead. Since I saw a few adverts with older pups unsold, this has been unsettling to me. They dont PTS do they?

Cant speak for others as I don't know why they breed. If its a 'cash crop' their sell by date may be looming.

I have just sold a 16 week dog puppy because I ran him on to see if he was special enough to keep another male...he isn't.

A good breeder will never breed without a waiting list in place before the mating takes place, but circumstances can change. I I once had 13 people on a waiting list and 11 dropped out. What you do then if you cannot find enough good homes is KEEP the pups that are left yourself. I have 3 from that litter, almost 3 years old now. I know some people who have had to keep even more. It's the risk you take when breeding, you have to be prepared to keep more than one pup even though it is a nightmare to have more than one puppy to train.

Some breeds are far easier to sell than other, but likewise in some breeds there are also more pups about which can also make it difficult to sell.

Thanks for replying. I was researching for a friend of mine for breeders of labrador or golden retriever pups (she had a lab but is considering a golden possibly this time), and came across many that still had pups unsold frm litters back in March and April, and the odd one or two from February, and I just though poor pups! It had never ocurred to me before.

Who buys 4 - 6 month old puppy rather than an 8 week old though? I looked at the background of some of the breeders and they seemed to be good breeders, not dubious with quality dogs in the pedigrees, and I wondered whether the recession was the problem, or whether this often happens?  It just got me thinking about what happens to them. I can see what you mean Goldmali, if people drop out and I suppose that is maybe even more likely to be happening now. Then I had this shocking vision of them taking a one way trip to the vet when their only crime was that they were just babies that no one wanted. So glad I am wrong on that.

A friend of mine will run on 2/3 puppies from a litter & not decide which to keep until they are much older-she doesn't have any problem selling her puppies at any stage & only advertizes puppies on her own website when she has decided which to keep

I've kept a pup for 4 months til it was convenient for the owner to take her - it was a special owner and a dog to do a special job. My friend has just sold one of her pups of 4 months of age ... this pup was rather good and she wanted to hold him back for exactly the right person (she came along :-) ), she has also kept pups for 6-8 months for similar reasons. One of my dogs was over 4 months when I got her.

There are advantages to getting a pup older than 8 weeks if it's from the right place (I don't mean kept locked up in a kennel with no socialisation) ... house trained, very well socialised with other dogs and people/experiences, etc. Not everyone is in a rush to get rid of their pups at 8 weeks or younger. I for one wont even be starting to let my next litter leave until at least 3 months of age ... I'm selecting my pup and I have to make sure it's going to be the right pup for me and the job I want it to do. My list of puppy folk are well aware of this and are quite happy. If they weren't they'd be going elsewhere.

Just look at the breeder and what they do with their pups (important whether collecting at 8 weeks or older). As others have said, as much as you get a waiting list prior to mating, circumstances change, jobs change and you may end up with good homes falling off your waiting list for very valid reasons ... the good breeders are those who will not then rush around looking for second best homes for their precious pups.

It depends on who good the breeder is, as said above a good breeder will keep the pup or pups until they can find a good home. I've Hurd of breeder who have had pups left who other breeders have passed on people on there waiting list there number to help.

Then you get the not good breeders who don't want to keep the pups once they are not cute or can't be sold for full price. You see there adds for cheap or free puppies for any home that will take them, some dump them in rescue some can't even be bothered with that and bump them in a box somewhere like trash. I have hurd of vets refusing to put down litters before so some of them must try that. Hopefully those sort of breeders will be put off breeding again.

Then I had this shocking vision of them taking a one way trip to the vet when their only crime was that they were just babies that no one wanted. So glad I am wrong on that.

The responsible breeder wouldn't and the irresponsible isn't likely to either -because it would cost them money, and most vets would refuse to put a healthy puppy to sleep anyway. So the irresponsible breeder will take their pups to the nearest rescue.

>the good breeders are those who will not then rush around looking for second best homes for their precious pups

This is very true :)

We have several breeders whom are running on puppies because "the right home has not materialised yet". It is also not uncommon for breeders to 'run-on' puppies to see if they make the grade for the show ring or work. This means that they will be slightly older than most the puppies on the Puppy Register. It doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with them, far from it. I am sure the breeders in question will be happy to explain why they still have an older puppy available :)

Don't forget to check out our Puppy Buyer Guide. It will help to steer you through the minefield that can sometimes surround buying a pedigree puppy.

Quote...Who buys 4 - 6 month old puppy rather than an 8 week old though?
I did....I'm in Italy and if I wanted a fully health tested,quality dog of my breed ,I had to go further afield.In the end we flew  to Sweden for our pup.I did however book him when he was just 8 weeks.
The new import regulations stipulate that a pup has to be vacced for rabies at 3 m and then wait 21days until he can enter Italy.
The plus points are that my dog is fabulously socialized with other dogs,was almost house trained...he just needed to understand where our indoor tiled floor ended and the terrazzo tiles started.  ....he couldn't care less about cats,thunderstorms(thank goodness for Nordic weather) ,is bomb proof in crowds,was lead trained,and great on the grooming table(apart from his nails...still to be resolved)..
Negatives? ..the stairs took weeks to conquer....they were kept on one floor at the breeders and he has to climb the  stairs once daily to go to our bedroom.....now he's fine.
He's so dog socialized I worry what he will be like when my older girl passes...he's a pack dog for sure.....we shall see.
Everyone he meets thinks he is an adult..he's 20kilos,25 inches tall and yet he's just 7.5m If he had arrived as a  tiny pup he would have a different reception...when I take his big,bouncy body  to my local market they think he's an old dog ...they can't believe he's a pup...lol.

Well this has been an education for the uninitiated :)  Thank you for taking the time to explain.

Glad it all sounds fairly positive and not that unusual, it had me quite worried.

As breeders, we keep any pup until it sold whatever its age. There is a very high demand these days for older puppies or young adults, as many dont like the 8 week pup stage...ITS HARD WORK(if done properly!!!).

From my most recent litter, apart from one puppy which was kept (until he was 22 weeks)whilst the new owner went on holiday my last one went at 20 weeks.
There is no way I would bred if it meant putting pups to sleep just because they didnt get sold...thats not what responsible breeding is all about!!

My husbands choice would be an older puppy.  We usually have two dogs but after several years we found ourselves with none.  I prefer having one from 8weeks so it is use to my ways.  Mine is now 14weeks.  I will give it a few weeks and my husband will have found his perfect older puppy or maybe one that is two or three years old.  In my area a lot of pups are left on the shelf because their popularity has waned. For example toy dogs, staffs and cross-breeds.  Finding an everyday bitsa is rare.

I've always got people waiting so no matter the age, there's a first class home available.

I think you have put your finger on it the decent breeders your seeing with older pups are not prepared to let their pups go to just anyone and will wait until the right sort of home becomes available, the current economic climate makes this more of a challenge.

The puppy producer has sales and will happily sell to just anyone who will buy, and some will dump unsold pups on rescue.  The worst kind probably do dispose of unsold older pups.  There were a number of younger Viszla's found dead within the year 'Yogi' won at Crufts.

>e Who buys 4 - 6 month old puppy rather than an 8 week old though?

If it's a breeder worthy of the name, and they have brought the pup up properly as part of their family, with appropriate socialisation and training for it's age, then in fact I'd buy an older puppy any day over an 8 week old.

At 4 - 6 months it will have been mostly house-trained, is able to go out for walks (albeit not too long ones).

I think breed makes a huge difference, as with my breed they will happily bond with anyone during puppy-hood.

Until recently those of us who imported had no choice other than to have a pup at close to a year of age, and even now they can't legally come into the country until 16 weeks.

I have fortunately never had an unsold pup past the age of 11 weeks, though certainly have kept pups until around 16 weeks due to holidays, export requirements etc. 

As the others have said you keep the puppy fro as long as it takes to find the right home.  Fortunately in my breed there are plenty of people who would prefer an older pup or young adult.

What does and always has worried me is what happens to the pups that do not sell at the animal warehouses - they can't have them in those glass boxes at 6 month so what happens to them?

I assume they may go back to the producer to be used as breeding stock, or something even less palatable.

I've been looking for a GR pup from about March meaning to get one from now onwards. I spent a lot of time researching breed lines, talking to breeders and visiting my chosen breeder. Unfortunately it didn't work out and I was back to square one in late June, but was able to find another suitable breeder and I collect my pup tomorrow.

I did consider an older pup, but several things concerned me. Why was the pup left? Would it be well socialised? Would it have learnt bad habits? And would it bond with me? Also, looking at the adverts in Champdogs puppies lists, were they really available still or had people forgotten to take the advert down. It would be quite nice not to have the puppy stage and have a house trained older dog, but this is possibly our last dog and I just wanted to enjoy every bit of her life and have a puppy to teach and play with. On the other hand if someone was to offer me a six month dark gold retriever pup in a couple of years time, I would be hard pressed to no.

We had a booked puppy a few years ago that wasn't actually going to fit into the intended family.  The reasons were explained to them and they decided to wait for another litter the following year.  We were already keeping one back due to holidays until 16 weeks, so we had two for some time.  We did wait for the right home, and our suspicions were correct as he was quite a handful but has turned out to be a lovely well adjusted boy now.  If we had allowed him to go to the initial home he would probably have been returned to us before he reached his first bithday.  The family waited for another litter and have their perfect dog now.

I have a breed that has small litters 1-3 pups being the norm.  I don't mention to people that I have a pregnant bitch.  I have had litters of 2 pups where I have waited to see how they developed before choosing the one I wanted to keep.

With my last litter 3 years ago I had 2 pups.  The best one was easy to choose, as I had one tiny boy that was never going to make show size.  As I don't sell to the handbag brigade, I didn't advertise this tiny tot.  It was very much a case of keeping him until the right person came along.  I did have telephone calls from people wanting a pup, but they were the type that wanted one "now" and didn't really worry about where they got a pup from.  

When he was 9 months old I received a phone call from an older couple who had a pup from me 2 years previously.  They were pleased with their boy and wanted a playmate for him.  I had really liked this couple. Hubby had got down on the floor with the dogs when they had first visited, and you could see they were really dog people.

I didn't promise them a pup, just asked them to come over at a time to suit, and bring their boy with them.  Within 10 minutes of them arriving, the boys were playing together, and for me, it looked like it was meant to be.  I'd had to have teeth removed at 6 months, as he had too many retained teeth, and I just charged enough to cover the op.  For no other reason than I was over the moon with the home he was going to. 

So you see, we all have our different reasons.  :-)

Nova, what is an animal warehouse?  What do you mean by glass box?  Where are these places?

I think the key is if the pup has been allowed to be part of the family life etc.  Although most of us breeders on here believe we do things the right way, there are still people who kennel their dogs and/or not socialise or exercise the puppies in built up areas etc if they are left until older.  Worth considering an older puppy, but go and view with your eyes wide open!  Try and do some research on the breeder before you go.

There is evidence that the pup learns most within the first 17 weeks, which is another factor to consider. 

what is an animal warehouse?  What do you mean by glass box?

Well it started, I think, with one in Manchester (the one who dreamed up the Dog Lovers Registration) and has spread, many of these places have the pups in glass/plastic boxes rather than cages. I understand they import whole or part litters from Ireland and other puppy farms at about 6 weeks and put them on display - what worries is what happens when the pass their sell by date.

I've only ever had two older pups that I've run on for future breeding but had to find homes for. The first girl never came into season and at two years I found a lovely home for her in the country with acres of gardens. She's a much loved addition to their family and adore her, we've become good friends so we see her regularly. Her new family rang originally to see if I had a pup as their elderly dog had passed away and I liked them so much that I offered them my girl.

The second developed an obsessive trait for chasing our hens. I couldn't stop it, tried everything but nothing worked. She eventually cornered and killed one that squeezed back into the garden from their field, that showed me I could never dare breed from her. We still have her but will soon be re-homing her with some friends who strangely rang the other day to ask if we have an older puppy as they didn't want the stress of having a young pup...things have a habit of coming right. I must say no good breeder would ever PTS one of their babies unless for health reasons and even then there would have to be no other option, the mere thought of putting any of my babies to sleep gives me the chills!

My new puppy will be 4 and a half months old when I get him due to the import/ export rules and travel arrangements.

If I bred a litter and wanted to keep something special back I would run 2 pups on then choose at a later stage even to 16 weeks if i had to. So in theory if I did that and you bought an older puppy from me the chances are it would be of superior quality for one reason or another than a litter mate I let go at 8 weeks.

I have just read your posting about those poor dogs in 'containers'.  We have enough television stations that televise dog programmes why on earth hasn't one picked up on this terrible trade? 

There's been a few, panoramer did one I think. Guess it just doesn't make good tv. But there needs to be a good one about bad and good breeding, to show all the effort good breeders are putting in and why it's important. I'd like to see one program follow pups from two litters for the first year of there life, one litter from a good breeder and one from a typical pet bred no testing sell to anyone litter.

I would too, Jo. It's the sort of thing Channel Four tends to do, maybe you should write to them and suggest it explaining why there is such a difference between a good breeder and a BYB'er. I'm not a breeder, just the person at the other end trying to buy a good dog from someone who has thought carefully why they breed one dog with another.